Brooks

Russell
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Re: Brooks

Post by Russell » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 9:53 am

MacDougall wrote:
Sat 25 Aug, 2018 9:03 am
From what I have seen from Brooks this year he has truly turned the corner. I expect him to be even better again next year.

Last year and years before he was a turnstyle, now he is almost a hitman in defense, consistently putting big forwards on their back one on one. His tackling has gone to another level. While his missed tackle count is still high, his clutch tackles are very good.

He plays with competitiveness. In the past I haven't seen Brooks get mad on the field but several times this year he has slammed the ball in disgust or pulled up a teammate for doing something silly. This is a critical feature in a playmaking halfback.

He takes the line on way more. If he had more threatening options outside him he'd make a lot more linebreaks. He gets half through a hole but his outside options don't attract defenders. If he had someone like TPJ or Kikau outside him it would be very hard for defenders to deal. Lawrence has found an extra gear this year which has been a major contributor for Brook's improvement but Lawrence alone isn't enough.

He is forcing a ton of line drop outs. This has been a huge turnaround in his game. He is actually getting the ball through legs and into the in goal.

For me, it seems like we have a very basic and boring attacking gameplan that looks nice when it works but the option players generally screw it up. Brooks's job is to just choose the first pass. To the fullback or to the forward laying the line. The problem is that it's the most common attacking gameplan in the NRL (Cowboys attack) and teams know how to defend it. We only score tries when the defense makes a mistake by either sliding off the backrower and opening a hole, sliding off Brooks himself who walks through or if the fullback (Mbye) is able to catch and pass insanely fast. It's low percentage football in the red zone. By running this play we would score less frequently than the Warriors would be just putting up a bomb to Fusitua or Maumalo. Need a new gameplan. Our defense is mostly fine except for how weak we are to big and skillful throw it around teams (Warriors, Raiders etc.).
Quite a lot of what you say is true Mac but I do disagree with those that think we have simple game plans that go nowhere. To my mind the game plans that have been instituted throughout the year have been tailored to the teams talent. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, so you have to devise simple plays for players that have less talent or you wind up with massive errors, a-la game against St. George.

It is not Brooks fault that he is playing for the most part with players that have less talent. Invariably he runs to the line (which we all want him to do) and then he runs out of options except on the fifth where he has to kick long, short etc. On the other runs, how many options has he got with no one running lines except for Rowdy, no decoys to help him get through the line, no big forward hitting the middle or full back for out/in maneuvers. No speed apart from himself for chip kick options etc. etc. These are not excuses for him, he just has very limited opportunities to set up plays due to the lack of talent around him. He improved after the last off season and with a couple of new additions - I would suspect if we sign a few more players with talent and another off season he will turn out to be even better again.

It is all too easy to single one player out of seventeen and say, "no more excuses" - give him a few mates with talent that actually back him up, rather than players sitting back and waiting for him to do something and we maybe cooking with gas.


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Post by Russell » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 9:53 am

MacDougall wrote:
Sat 25 Aug, 2018 9:03 am
From what I have seen from Brooks this year he has truly turned the corner. I expect him to be even better again next year.

Last year and years before he was a turnstyle, now he is almost a hitman in defense, consistently putting big forwards on their back one on one. His tackling has gone to another level. While his missed tackle count is still high, his clutch tackles are very good.

He plays with competitiveness. In the past I haven't seen Brooks get mad on the field but several times this year he has slammed the ball in disgust or pulled up a teammate for doing something silly. This is a critical feature in a playmaking halfback.

He takes the line on way more. If he had more threatening options outside him he'd make a lot more linebreaks. He gets half through a hole but his outside options don't attract defenders. If he had someone like TPJ or Kikau outside him it would be very hard for defenders to deal. Lawrence has found an extra gear this year which has been a major contributor for Brook's improvement but Lawrence alone isn't enough.

He is forcing a ton of line drop outs. This has been a huge turnaround in his game. He is actually getting the ball through legs and into the in goal.

For me, it seems like we have a very basic and boring attacking gameplan that looks nice when it works but the option players generally screw it up. Brooks's job is to just choose the first pass. To the fullback or to the forward laying the line. The problem is that it's the most common attacking gameplan in the NRL (Cowboys attack) and teams know how to defend it. We only score tries when the defense makes a mistake by either sliding off the backrower and opening a hole, sliding off Brooks himself who walks through or if the fullback (Mbye) is able to catch and pass insanely fast. It's low percentage football in the red zone. By running this play we would score less frequently than the Warriors would be just putting up a bomb to Fusitua or Maumalo. Need a new gameplan. Our defense is mostly fine except for how weak we are to big and skillful throw it around teams (Warriors, Raiders etc.).
Quite a lot of what you say is true Mac but I do disagree with those that think we have simple game plans that go nowhere. To my mind the game plans that have been instituted throughout the year have been tailored to the teams talent. You can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear, so you have to devise simple plays for players that have less talent or you wind up with massive errors, a-la game against St. George.

It is not Brooks fault that he is playing for the most part with players that have less talent. Invariably he runs to the line (which we all want him to do) and then he runs out of options except on the fifth where he has to kick long, short etc. On the other runs, how many options has he got with no one running lines except for Rowdy, no decoys to help him get through the line, no big forward hitting the middle or full back for out/in maneuvers. No speed apart from himself for chip kick options etc. etc. These are not excuses for him, he just has very limited opportunities to set up plays due to the lack of talent around him. He improved after the last off season and with a couple of new additions - I would suspect if we sign a few more players with talent and another off season he will turn out to be even better again.

It is all too easy to single one player out of seventeen and say, "no more excuses" - give him a few mates with talent that actually back him up, rather than players sitting back and waiting for him to do something and we maybe cooking with gas.

Better the talent - better the game plans.

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Post by jirskyr » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 11:06 am

851 wrote:
Sat 25 Aug, 2018 10:16 am
Snake wrote:
Sat 25 Aug, 2018 10:01 am
Tiger Steve wrote:
Sat 25 Aug, 2018 9:53 am
Brooks is not the reason we will finish 9th. Playing - and losing - a handful of games with a lock as hooker is the reason. If we’d brought Farah over earlier, or Liddle had not regressed due to injury, we’d be in the 8.
Brooks has been composed and threatening all year. He has had to deal with constant changes to our spine and receiving rubbish ball from rakes who should never have been put in to dummy half.
Brooks is a keeper - contract upgrade and extension is what we should be discussing.
Can not agree if the proper game management was implemented the Tigers would be playing final footy this season ...Brooks is one of the reasons the team is not playing in the Finals ,reality is just that Brooks needs to go to 5/8 or move on no more excuses he just is not good enough to allow the team to move to the next level.
Totally agree, whilst Brooks has improved this year, especially his defence, he has no game management skills.
He very rarely executes the right play or kick, yet it is never his fault apparently.
He has played over 100 games, time for him to let someone else own the team, a running 5/8th may be his spot
In fairness I think this year he's developed his game-ending skills quite well.

Brooks kicked the match-levelling FG against Broncos, scored the match-winning try to beat Storm, several close wins ended with Brooks kicking into touch or running the ball and getting tackled right against the opponent's lines.

We won 5/9 games decided by less than 2 points and 7/11 decided by less than 4 points. That shows we can close tight games.

But I do agree with game management if you specifically refer to 20m attacking sets. Tigers do alright moving the ball down the field, but we seem to lack the development of on-goal attacking sets and as such have an overall ordinary points for record.

Benji is just as much to blame, for a guy with far more experience than Brooks, he doesn't know how to build a set from tackle 1 to tackle 6 on the opponent's line. Brooks can certainly get a repeat set in 2018, but do we actually do with the footy for those sets?

There's been a trend this year where we've opened some matches really well but not converted that possession into points. Sometimes running around like headless chooks. Against Dragons the other week it was all dropped ball to blame. Against the Broncos we had some horrendous sets with nobody ready to kick etc.

Perhaps, as someone else noted, if Brooks had better options than just Lawrence, then we'd have more effect. Imagine how he might go with a Kikau and a Cordner running lines for him to pick from. Also our centres are rather average - Marsters has good footwork but he mostly needs early ball and doesn't offer so much when pressing the line.

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Post by 851 » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 2:01 pm

jirskyr wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 11:06 am
851 wrote:
Sat 25 Aug, 2018 10:16 am
Snake wrote:
Sat 25 Aug, 2018 10:01 am
Tiger Steve wrote:
Sat 25 Aug, 2018 9:53 am
Brooks is not the reason we will finish 9th. Playing - and losing - a handful of games with a lock as hooker is the reason. If we’d brought Farah over earlier, or Liddle had not regressed due to injury, we’d be in the 8.
Brooks has been composed and threatening all year. He has had to deal with constant changes to our spine and receiving rubbish ball from rakes who should never have been put in to dummy half.
Brooks is a keeper - contract upgrade and extension is what we should be discussing.
Can not agree if the proper game management was implemented the Tigers would be playing final footy this season ...Brooks is one of the reasons the team is not playing in the Finals ,reality is just that Brooks needs to go to 5/8 or move on no more excuses he just is not good enough to allow the team to move to the next level.
Totally agree, whilst Brooks has improved this year, especially his defence, he has no game management skills.
He very rarely executes the right play or kick, yet it is never his fault apparently.
He has played over 100 games, time for him to let someone else own the team, a running 5/8th may be his spot
In fairness I think this year he's developed his game-ending skills quite well.

Brooks kicked the match-levelling FG against Broncos, scored the match-winning try to beat Storm, several close wins ended with Brooks kicking into touch or running the ball and getting tackled right against the opponent's lines.

We won 5/9 games decided by less than 2 points and 7/11 decided by less than 4 points. That shows we can close tight games.

But I do agree with game management if you specifically refer to 20m attacking sets. Tigers do alright moving the ball down the field, but we seem to lack the development of on-goal attacking sets and as such have an overall ordinary points for record.

Benji is just as much to blame, for a guy with far more experience than Brooks, he doesn't know how to build a set from tackle 1 to tackle 6 on the opponent's line. Brooks can certainly get a repeat set in 2018, but do we actually do with the footy for those sets?

There's been a trend this year where we've opened some matches really well but not converted that possession into points. Sometimes running around like headless chooks. Against Dragons the other week it was all dropped ball to blame. Against the Broncos we had some horrendous sets with nobody ready to kick etc.

Perhaps, as someone else noted, if Brooks had better options than just Lawrence, then we'd have more effect. Imagine how he might go with a Kikau and a Cordner running lines for him to pick from. Also our centres are rather average - Marsters has good footwork but he mostly needs early ball and doesn't offer so much when pressing the line.
I agree, and I am not putting it all on Brooks, we dont have a good game manager in our team. Totally agree on Benji, he has never learnt game management, we have not had one since Prince left.
But as our 7 Brooks is supposed to be that man, and he isn't, we have to hope Reynolds is that man, or we buy one
Go hard or go home

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Post by TIGER » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 7:30 pm

Jamie Soward chose Brooks as his 7 in his team of the year.


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Post by yeti » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 9:27 pm

TIGER wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 7:30 pm
Jamie Soward chose Brooks as his 7 in his team of the year.
I think Brooks has been good this year, but I'm not sure he has been the best 7 running around.

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Post by Madge » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 10:19 pm

yeti wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 9:27 pm
TIGER wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 7:30 pm
Jamie Soward chose Brooks as his 7 in his team of the year.
I think Brooks has been good this year, but I'm not sure he has been the best 7 running around.
Yeah I would’ve chosen Ben hunt tbh

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Post by Geo. » Mon 27 Aug, 2018 11:35 pm

Be interesting who wins Dally M halfback of the year..if it's Brooks they don't mean anything..getting in early..
Wests Tigers don't need a Coach.. The playing group has taken over..
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Post by happy tiger » Tue 28 Aug, 2018 12:03 am

Geo. wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 11:35 pm
Be interesting who wins Dally M halfback of the year..if it's Brooks they don't mean anything..getting in early..
Better sign him up before the Dally M's , price might skyrocket if he wins

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Post by mremedy » Tue 28 Aug, 2018 6:14 am

Geo. wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 11:35 pm
Be interesting who wins Dally M halfback of the year..if it's Brooks they don't mean anything..getting in early..
Yeah, I don't think the award takes into account game management.

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Post by jirskyr » Tue 28 Aug, 2018 3:14 pm

TIGER wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 7:30 pm
Jamie Soward chose Brooks as his 7 in his team of the year.
That's just because Soward has an affinity for little fat halfbacks.

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Post by greatodensraven » Tue 28 Aug, 2018 3:41 pm

Geo. wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 11:35 pm
Be interesting who wins Dally M halfback of the year..if it's Brooks they don't mean anything..getting in early..
Nah, it'd only be because every other 1/2 played poorly all year.

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Post by yeti » Tue 28 Aug, 2018 4:51 pm

Ivan cleary wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 10:19 pm
yeti wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 9:27 pm
TIGER wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 7:30 pm
Jamie Soward chose Brooks as his 7 in his team of the year.
I think Brooks has been good this year, but I'm not sure he has been the best 7 running around.
Yeah I would’ve chosen Ben hunt tbh
I feel sorry for Hunt tbh. He's seems a nice enough bloke, but sheesh! - is he out of form or what!

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Post by formerguest » Tue 28 Aug, 2018 6:45 pm

Geo. wrote:
Mon 27 Aug, 2018 11:35 pm
Be interesting who wins Dally M halfback of the year..if it's Brooks they don't mean anything..getting in early..
Nah, would just mean his peers weren't desperate enough.

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