Russian invasion of Ukraine

jadtiger said:
Just woke up to hear the horrendously barbaric news that Russia has destroyed both a maternity ward and childrens ward in the Ukraine with casualties expected to be high as rescuers work there way through the rubble.I would get banned if i said what i honestly think of Putin he is a war criminal beyond all doubt
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I am purposefully avoiding looking for footage of these barbaric atrocities as they are so disturbing.

Glad though that we are no longer seeing so many excuses on here for this horrible individual long in power of Russia that has changed the rules to remain there. One inflicting death and extreme suffering on a populace that includes so many that speak his tongue as a first or second language.

If you are one still thinking that this invasion is anything other than an abomination and/or remain a believer of the propaganda of QAnon or these war machines, please at least try to listen to the Red Cross and their descriptions of the situation and the innocent children dying under his raining bombs.
 
Ahhh the chest beating grows louder as the drums of war sound.. So pious and selective some of you are when dealing with certain parts of the world. Zelensky will probably go first in all reality though.. He is not a freedom fighter, hes an actor-comedian-stooge and his partners in the west are cottoning on to this quickly. Ukrainian Gov continue to forsake their own people in the hopes of western intervention, which is not coming. Zelensky will soon fold under pressure from his handelers in the west. US dont want to get involved.. they've mentioned this repeatedly, and NATO countries are against sending jets and closing the airspace. Ukraine could become a catalyst for another world war much like Serbia/austro-hungary empire was after Archduke Ferdinand's assassination. We need to be a bit more pragmatic about this, peace is always worth a shot regardless of your poltics or background ..
 
Kaito said:
We need to be a bit more pragmatic about this, peace is always worth a shot regardless of your poltics or background ..
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What does this mean ? Do you think the west/Nato should go in ?

I heard a good republican poitician speak the other day. He stated that the west may have to go in.

Putin isn't likely to promote peace after bombing women and children.
 
Kaito said:
Ahhh the chest beating grows louder as the drums of war sound.. So pious and selective some of you are when dealing with certain parts of the world. Zelensky will probably go first in all reality though.. He is not a freedom fighter, hes an actor-comedian-stooge and his partners in the west are cottoning on to this quickly. Ukrainian Gov continue to forsake their own people in the hopes of western intervention, which is not coming. Zelensky will soon fold under pressure from his handelers in the west. US dont want to get involved.. they've mentioned this repeatedly, and NATO countries are against sending jets and closing the airspace. Ukraine could become a catalyst for another world war much like Serbia/austro-hungary empire was after Archduke Ferdinand's assassination. We need to be a bit more pragmatic about this, peace is always worth a shot regardless of your poltics or background ..
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I geniunely dont get your POV Kaito.

I agree with you that Zelensky has not been a good President, he and his Govt are corrupt. I have knowledge through family that he discriminates against minorities in his country badly. Ukraine is a corrupt government with many flaws..................and?

Genuine question for you Kaito. Is the corruption in Ukraine and the way they treat minorities a valid excuse in your opinion for a full scale military invasion and devestation of Civilian cities?
 
Earl said:
What does this mean ? Do you think the west/Nato should go in ?

I heard a good republican poitician speak the other day. He stated that the west may have to go in.

Putin isn't likely to promote peace after bombing women and children.
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IMO (which means nothing in the big scale of things) I dont think the West can or should go in, but I think the current strategy will be effective overall although its not much comfort for the poor Ukrainians.

The West is funnelling in massive amounts of weapons, Poland is sending their fighter jets for the Ukrainians and the US are replacing them for Poland (sweet deal, new for old). THe economic sanctions are biting hard. Mortgage rates doubled this week in Russia and the Russia government is on the threshold of defaulting on debt. Russia just had its credit rating lowered to junk. The Rouble has tanked and the Moscow Stock Exchange has been closed for over a week. Russian stocks lost 90% in London before they were frozen.

What the West and Ukraine is doing is working IMO but its pushing Putin in a corner and that could end badly, but what is the alternative? Let Putin do what he wants?
 
Earl said:
What does this mean ? Do you think the west/Nato should go in ?

I heard a good republican poitician speak the other day. He stated that the west may have to go in.

Putin isn't likely to promote peace after bombing women and children.
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Sorry Earl, I wrote a long reply but for some reason its not in my drafts anymore.. I'll have to summize by saying that despite the huge western media campaign, Ukraine has long lost LR/DR'Crimea and a few other places ..its been well documented and i dont want get into it right now as i dont have the time. In a nutshell, give up the south which you dont control and Russia will pull-out under mediation and guarentees.. Its that simple. No more encrochments to The west
 
@Tiger5150 shirt fronting and forcing them to trade with india and china while still buying oil and gas from them doesnt help. West needs to face reality .. They dont care about stupid sanctions, coca-cola or belgian chocolates lol
 
Kaito said:
Sorry Earl, I wrote a long reply but for some reason its not in my drafts anymore.. I'll have to summize by saying that despite the huge western media campaign, Ukraine has long lost LR/DR'Crimea and a few other places ..its been well documented and i dont want get into it right now as i dont have the time. In a nutshell, give up the south which you dont control and Russia will pull-out under mediation and guarentees.. Its that simple. No more encrochments to The west
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Except its not that simple.

This week at ceasefire talks Putin demands were to give up Crimea and the south, AND change the constitution to never be a member of a bloc (NATO). AND let Putin appoint the President.

I understand Putin not wanting NATO at his doorstep but any resolution of this will involve a mechanism for Ukraine to protect itself.
 
Tiger5150 said:
The West is funnelling in massive amounts of weapons, Poland is sending their fighter jets for the Ukrainians and the US are replacing them
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No more Syria, no more proxy wars ...
Tiger5150 said:
Russia just had itsT credit rating lowered to junk. The Rouble has tanked and the Moscow Stock Exchange has been closed for over a week.
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Yet he enjoys a cozy %70 approval rating. I would put my money on the russians toughing out winters longer than rest of Europe, but what for?
 
Tiger5150 said:
Except its not that simple.

This week at ceasefire talks Putin demands were to give up Crimea and the south, AND change the constitution to never be a member of a bloc (NATO). AND let Putin appoint the President.

I understand Putin not wanting NATO at his doorstep but any resolution of this will involve a mechanism for Ukraine to protect itself.
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I agree man, def more complicated ..
 
Kaito said:
@Tiger5150 shirt fronting and forcing them to trade with india and china while still buying oil and gas from them doesnt help. West needs to face reality .. They dont care about stupid sanctions, coca-cola or belgian chocolates lol
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You havent answered the question. What action has been taken against Russia that justifies this action?

They care about sanctions. Putin just dumped $10B into the equities market to stop default and the nation is likely to default on debt in the next fortnight. If China and India are their saviours, why is the Rouble woth a 5th of what it was a year ago? Why is their stock exchange still closed?

McDonalds and Coke will be the least of their problems shortly. Russia is a net importer of food. US is about to stop oil imports and reduce gas, UK & Europe by the end of the year.

This story that the Russians dont care about sanctions is chest beating. They are in a world of hurt that will take decades to recover from. Putin has screwed them.
 
Kaito said:
No more Syria, no more proxy wars ...
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Im with you, hard to argue against. So full scale military invasion is ok then? Just let them slaughter Ukrainians?
Kaito said:
Yet he enjoys a cozy %70 approval rating. I would put my money on the russians toughing out winters longer than rest of Europe, but what for?
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Obviously the 70% approval rating (to the extent it is true) is directly linked to Putin restricting social media and all internet and controlling the media. Putin passed laws this week imposing 15years in a Russian gaol if you publish stories about the war contrary to the official version. Reuters et al have gotten out of dodge.

Its 6 months until European winter with the US shipping LNG to Europe. MEanwhile the Russian economy in 6 months will be at stone age levels.
 
@Tiger5150 I'm no economics expert, but dont be so naïve In your assumptions that the rest of europe will come out of this unscathed and that the US will help prop up markets, they cant ..
 
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