Michael Maguire leaves club

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Kelce68 said:
For some perspective, this was one terrible half of football in what has been a pretty decent last 6/7 weeks, especially considering the injury circumstances.

We were due a lapse and if the forwards aim up, which they're more than capable of doing from what we've seen over the last 2 months, that entire game goes differently.

The line in the sand/halfway pass mark talk has blown things up and brought it to a head. This is a stupid public statement by the club in light of the situation.

You simply do not remove a coach when you've got 5 months until Nov 1 and you're looking at extending Laurie, Doueihi, Hastings and to a lesser extent, even Brooks, particularly in a players' market.

Once you sign the players you don't want touched, then you can move on the coach if needs be. But there are more variables to this than simply 'I've had enough'.

Timing, recruitment and retention implications, player morale, reputation, fan backlash, etc. are all considerations when this type of decision is being discussed.
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Screw letting players hold the club ransom.
Club needs to decide who will be the next coach.
If any players don't agree, [This word has been automatically removed] em. Move them on.
 
PJ (Exhibit B) said:
Screw letting players hold the club ransom.
Club needs to decide who will be the next coach.
If any players don't agree, **** em. Move them on.
Click to expand...
That's a sure-fire way to continue losing. If those three right there walk because of what they deem to be a show of disrespect for a coach they respect, we are unequivocally in a worse position. That doesn't mean the coach can't be removed, it's the manner to which the club goes about these types of things.

These things are nuanced and don't need emotion-charged responses.

Rash decisions leave you with a Bulldogs situation. I'd much rather ours.
 
Kelce68 said:
That's a sure-fire way to continue losing. If those three right there walk because of what they deem to be a show of disrespect for a coach they respect, we are unequivocally in a worse position. That doesn't mean the coach can't be removed, it's the manner to which the club goes about these types of things.

These things are nuanced and don't need emotion-charged responses.

Rash decisions leave you with a Bulldogs situation. I'd much rather ours.
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I agree. Would rather keep players. Just saying we don't want players holding the club to ransom.
The club is bigger than any player
 
jirskyr said:
That still doesn't solve the ultimate problem - interim coach, ok, before signing who?
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I've mentioned Morris who did get the Sharks to two final series. I'd accept that result at WTs right now. In any event, a second review in a few months indicates this is a planned event and hopefully there is a plan.
 
Kelce68 said:
For some perspective, this was one terrible half of football in what has been a pretty decent last 6/7 weeks, especially considering the injury circumstances.

We were due a lapse and if the forwards aim up, which they're more than capable of doing from what we've seen over the last 2 months, that entire game goes differently.

The line in the sand/halfway pass mark talk has blown things up and brought it to a head. This is a stupid public statement by the club in light of the situation.

You simply do not remove a coach when you've got 5 months until Nov 1 and you're looking at extending Laurie, Doueihi, Hastings and to a lesser extent, even Brooks, particularly in a players' market.

Once you sign the players you don't want touched, then you can move on the coach if needs be. But there are more variables to this than simply 'I've had enough'.

Timing, recruitment and retention implications, player morale, reputation, fan backlash, etc. are all considerations when this type of decision is being discussed.
Click to expand...

You don’t keep a coach in fear of losing players. More the point if we wait until the end of season it will delay contract talks longer, if those players will only stay it Madge is here then I cannot see how Sheens will say “Madge is here for the duration of your contract 100%”

Like cmon. It’s a business not kindergarten.

Would you prefer a new coach to decide on his long term roster or inherit one & be same discussion Madge/Ivan and every other coach has had?
Let’s be real. We sucked last year with Laurie, AD and Brooks, we suck this year with Hastings, Brooks and Laurie.

Reality is our roster is terrible & we are going to have a few hard years ahead of us unless something changes with recruitment, some young superstars come through or some players just snap and grow.

Some people keep saying we are better etc
Our defensive structure is what has improved thanks to Cayless but our attacking formations haven’t & the squad also hasn’t.

People cite injuries but lets be real, our injuries are not the difference as to why we are low on the ladder. AD comes back into what position & off a major injury - expecting him to be dallym standard week in week out is grasping let alone how he fits with everyone else. Our forward pack is basically full strength most weeks which is scary. We don’t have a NRL quality hooker, we have zero impact off the bench and we play ineffective forwards because they are the best we have. We have zero standouts in NSW Cup either pushing for selection.

Madge was know for his forward tough style and yet we have nothing at all in the mould. His recruiting in this space has been shocking.

We let Mika go early without any forward replacement. We signed Brown and Naden both who well were considering reserve graders & we still have JTJ on the roster because we are that desperate for hope that eventually one of these things will pay off.

Our season is done & reality is we aren’t actually improving. Cayless has changed our defensive structures but the forwards are ordinary & attacking structure is terrible. Sure we have Api and Papa inbound but we still have massive forward gaps around them its like a 2 for 1 offer. We let go of 2 to sign 1 player on the roster. we don’t even get any fries with it.

It’s time to give a new coach a run, they have plenty of roster spots to fill and heaps of cash to spend. Madge is done the team is his team today and they are terrible.
 
I see Madge in a similar spot to when Newcastle made a call on Nathan brown.
Only diff is Newcastle were quickly building a squad ready to challenge.
We are still miles off the pace.
I’d consider Flanno or Green and give them the 3 year sheens philosophy. By year 3 we should be able to challenge for the finals if this squad continues to build. Flanno is the often mentioned candidate though Green is a possible smokie. If anything Green has proven that he can be adaptable to a rosters strengths and weaknesses.
2014 Lachlan Coote acl in pre season. Following that Michael Morgan goes to fullback after being essentially the Phoenix Crossland for the cowboys.
2015 Coote returns nails fullback and Morgan transitions seamlessly into 5/8.
Had players like our own David Nofo in Antonio Winterstien playing in peak form. Turned essentially a David Fifita edge impact player into an 80min lock.(Tamoulolo)
Then manages to repeat all the efforts again 2 years later without their two best players and captains.
The roster got old. Hence only 4 out of the 2017 gf side remain just 5 years later.
 
Mighty_Tiger said:
You don’t keep a coach in fear of losing players. More the point if we wait until the end of season it will delay contract talks longer, if those players will only stay it Madge is here then I cannot see how Sheens will say “Madge is here for the duration of your contract 100%”

Like cmon. It’s a business not kindergarten.

Would you prefer a new coach to decide on his long term roster or inherit one & be same discussion Madge/Ivan and every other coach has had?
Let’s be real. We sucked last year with Laurie, AD and Brooks, we suck this year with Hastings, Brooks and Laurie.

Reality is our roster is terrible & we are going to have a few hard years ahead of us unless something changes with recruitment, some young superstars come through or some players just snap and grow.

Some people keep saying we are better etc
Our defensive structure is what has improved thanks to Cayless but our attacking formations haven’t & the squad also hasn’t.

People cite injuries but lets be real, our injuries are not the difference as to why we are low on the ladder. AD comes back into what position & off a major injury - expecting him to be dallym standard week in week out is grasping let alone how he fits with everyone else. Our forward pack is basically full strength most weeks which is scary. We don’t have a NRL quality hooker, we have zero impact off the bench and we play ineffective forwards because they are the best we have. We have zero standouts in NSW Cup either pushing for selection.

Madge was know for his forward tough style and yet we have nothing at all in the mould. His recruiting in this space has been shocking.

We let Mika go early without any forward replacement. We signed Brown and Naden both who well were considering reserve graders & we still have JTJ on the roster because we are that desperate for hope that eventually one of these things will pay off.

Our season is done & reality is we aren’t actually improving. Cayless has changed our defensive structures but the forwards are ordinary & attacking structure is terrible. Sure we have Api and Papa inbound but we still have massive forward gaps around them its like a 2 for 1 offer. We let go of 2 to sign 1 player on the roster. we don’t even get any fries with it.

It’s time to give a new coach a run, they have plenty of roster spots to fill and heaps of cash to spend. Madge is done the team is his team today and they are terrible.
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You make a few points in there that I agree with and a few that I disagree with.

Above all, my point was not to retain the coach, it was to give due consideration to all the compounding factors around what such a decision could lead to. This is not a simple decision, no matter how much anybody wants it to be or feels it is.

I get your argument, I do. I just disagree with many of the ways you've interpreted how we're going that have lead you to your conclusion. That's not to say they're wrong, moreso that I view them from a different perspective. Happy to go through some of those disagreements if needs be, but don't have the chance atm.

To your point of giving a new coach a run and that it's time for that, it may well be, it's a fair point, but then you enter into; who's available? why would they improve the situation? who's willing to even take the position? what other ramifications would that have?

Like all these things, I'm torn myself. Part of me feels a new coach would be a welcome change and another part of me feels as though there's merit to seeing Madge through.

And that's why this isn't a simple decision.
 
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