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Cobarcats
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Totally agree but these comments have been said a thousand times.
Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion
- Thread starter MacDougall
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BAGNF05
Well-known member
Yeah to go with their 6 other marquee players.
BAGNF05
Well-known member
Every theme on here gets repeated ad nauseum- we have been the same shit house rabble for 11 years.
It’s in response to a user whom comments ad nausea about the glorious state of our club and likes to elevate our standing in the game by devaluating other teams in a similarly lowly position.
jirskyr
Well-known member
I don't agree with that at all.
If you are considering only one statistic - consecutive finals appearances - then yes Tigers have made the least finals series (zero) since 2012 (N=10 completed seasons). It's a terrible statistic.
However is an overly simplistic view of what is really happening in the NRL the past decade. For example in that same period since 2012 (excluding 2022 unresolved), Titans have made the finals twice and lost both matches. Dragons made it twice and are 1 and 2 in finals. Warriors made the finals once and lost that match. Knights made the finals 3 times and are 2 W 3 L (thanks to 2013).
Tigers win rate since 2012 is 38.98%, which is better than Knights (37.77%) and Titans (37.45%). Warriors are 41.28%, Dragons 42.8%.
Even teams with a decent finals history in the past decade - Dogs are 44.92% win rate (even including 5 straight finals appearances from 2012) and Eels are 47.03% despite being contenders 4 of the last 5 seasons.
When it comes to wooden spoons in the decade Knights have 3, Eels have 3, Titans and Dogs share 1 each.
Tigers do have the worst average ladder position in the past decade - average of 11.9, vs Titans 11.8, Dragons 10.7, Warriors 11.3, Knights 11.6. Dogs are actually 9.1. This is impacted by even one or two finals appearances (e.g. a 6th or 7th place) bringing the numbers up slightly.
So what exactly makes Tigers daylight behind everyone else? Just one statistic? So Warriors get 1 finals appearance in 10 years and they are miles and miles in front of Tigers?
No that's overly simplistic. It's too emotional, too club-centric.
What I believe the metrics show is something that should be obvious to most supporters - that there is a major divide between the top and bottom halves of the comp, and most teams struggle to exit their half of the haves and have-nots.
By all means you can congratulate or reward Titans for winning zero of 2 finals matches, and you can certainly say "at least they made it", but that is almost like the difference between June 30 and July 1 - it only has meaning if you are doing your taxes. Sharks dropped their coach because he couldn't get them any further than 8th and a first-round exit.
Tigers, Titans, Knights, Dragons, Warriors are all doing a nice little dance of losing, taking turns to be close-to-worst, though Tigers never managed yet to get a spoon. Eels spent the best part of 10 years being an abysmal club, and are slowly pulling themselves out of that quagmire at the expense of Bulldogs. Typically one team only goes up into the top tier at the expense of someone falling out.
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jirskyr
Well-known member
You make that point precisely yourself: "other teams in a similarly lowly position".
Nobody is glorifying the horrible state of affairs at Tigers, at least I am not seeing that written on here.
We seem to agree yet I often read your essay’s ^ suggesting otherwise.
I just believe we are rubbish. We fail at trying not to fail. And yes other teams have failed spectacularly the same.
Your comment regarding the ins and outs of the top 8 is very true I have noticed similar occurrences.
Starting with how ended up making the finals in 2010, in a year where 1 club was ruled out of the comp.
2012 saw the rise of the bunnies replacing the consistent Dragons of the past decade. The Bunnies held that position for 4 years finally losing their place in the 8 by a rising Panthers.
On the panthers 2014 saw their reintroduction to the top 8 since 2010 only to lose that spot the following year to the Sharks once they rebounded from their year from hell. As mentioned above the Panthers bounce back the following year replacing the Bunnies as the solid team of the past 4 years. The bunnies not to be outdone made their break back into the finals at the expense of the cowboys in 2018. And history repeating itself once again with possibly the cowboys breaking back into the 8 five years later at the expense of the bunnies.
The Dragons and Warriors both had a sneak peak in 2018 when the Eels season did a 180 and went from top 4 to last. In 2019 the Eels capitalised on a Panthers down year and made it back into the top 4. Finally the Panthers climbed back into the 8 after the Broncos finally lost their grasp in the comp as one of the powerhouse teams whom after 3 years anchored to the bottom of the table may of developed a heartbeat and a spot in the 8 at the expense of a short term stint by the knights. (T.B.D)
Other patterns not considered are the Raiders and Sea Eagles continually swapping positions year in and year out.
Not that the tigers are in any position to capitalise on another teams missed fortune but the above summary does give you some indication that the top and bottom halve of the table is interchangeable it’s just a question of timing.
That’s the best spot for him atm - he’s gone off the boil, if he wants to get back to where he can be and more, storms the spot
Buttface
Well-known member
I don’t know how you don’t agree. You can throw all the stats and blah blah all you like. I love my club but we are the biggest losers by far.
Long Term Fan
Well-known member
Love the passion of the Forum Members and only wish our NRL team played each game with the same passion WT would be top 4 every season.
The Ciraldo circus in my opinion has once again done the club no favours and as well as quality players not wanting to come to WT (I don't still know how we got two good ones for 2023) now Coaches don't want to come to WT.
Whilst we don't want WT to continue to pay well over for quality players but given the lack of success of the last 12 years and no current coach, plus the elephant in the room (Dolphins that need 30 players for 2023) then unless we pay well overs for quality players WT will continue to be one of the clubs battling to avoid the Wooden Spoon year after year. Even our seasonal 9th place was still a failure as no semi final appearance then season is a dismal failure. Fans want final appearances and the occasional Grand Final one every decade.
Still think the clean out should start at the top as they are part of the problem.
If WT can not obtain success in the next few years we will once again witness future junior stars in our current ranks (like the next Teddy, Papps, Hoffman, Moses, Dora) be poached by stronger clubs and in effect become a feeder club to others. Need to make these pathways succeed bigtime and Centre of Excellence providing tangible results year after year.
I like many will stay loyal to WT but Membership and buy new merchandise will be put on hold until I can witness real and sustainable success. 2005 appears so long ago now.
The Ciraldo circus in my opinion has once again done the club no favours and as well as quality players not wanting to come to WT (I don't still know how we got two good ones for 2023) now Coaches don't want to come to WT.
Whilst we don't want WT to continue to pay well over for quality players but given the lack of success of the last 12 years and no current coach, plus the elephant in the room (Dolphins that need 30 players for 2023) then unless we pay well overs for quality players WT will continue to be one of the clubs battling to avoid the Wooden Spoon year after year. Even our seasonal 9th place was still a failure as no semi final appearance then season is a dismal failure. Fans want final appearances and the occasional Grand Final one every decade.
Still think the clean out should start at the top as they are part of the problem.
If WT can not obtain success in the next few years we will once again witness future junior stars in our current ranks (like the next Teddy, Papps, Hoffman, Moses, Dora) be poached by stronger clubs and in effect become a feeder club to others. Need to make these pathways succeed bigtime and Centre of Excellence providing tangible results year after year.
I like many will stay loyal to WT but Membership and buy new merchandise will be put on hold until I can witness real and sustainable success. 2005 appears so long ago now.
tony soprano
Well-known member
Nice scoop mate.
I'm happy we not going after him would allocate too many $$$ from juniors and we'd have to pay overs.
Think thats a reason madge gone wanted to spend big on players like this to save his job.
BAGNF05
Well-known member
What is Justin doing in his conversations with NRL powerbrokers to address this? That’s what I’d like to hear about from him.
Because for once I agree with everything you say. Doesnt mean it’s not a problem if we’re not the only basket case.
The entitlement around here on how everyone needs to be informed on the day to day of a business that 95% have no stake in never ceases to amaze me...
I wonder if we're all so open to the general public about our business affairs.
BAGNF05
Well-known member
He’s quick to tell everyone about his new gym , does he only share his victories?
pawsandclaws1
Well-known member
Here's a scoop (not), Sharks' supporters are clamorng for the the club to re-sign Teig Wilton if Morris comes to WTs.
Hardly business "operations"
Customers get the candy - What makes WT's any different to any other business or organisation on the Planet?
Furthermore - What Business owner would be happy to have the CEO having an indepth conversation with Johnny Loudmouth on a forum about the Business Dealings of a club?
#Nutters
They should be fine - Didn't they sack him because he "Couldn't Attract" Players....
BAGNF05
Well-known member
I guess he can just sit in his ivory tower and watch his successful club then 😂
Laugh all you like mate... I bothers me not.
Every man and his dog says success starts in the front office - And the front office is as successful as it's ever been - Probably more so.
I don't have an opinion on Pascoe - I see the stuff ups, But I see the good things...
- And I certainly don't need to be reminded of the clowns that held the position before him, And the rubbish he walked into created by them.
Most (If not all) issues anyone could lay at his feet - Were created from the environment he walked into. Him backing Cleary to shag the cap is the worst of what he's done in his time here
- Cleary was seen as a god send at the time, And what Coach of any quality doesn't take full autonomy of the Roster? Systems are now in place (That didn't exist before) I might add to stop that happening again.
There's counter position for almost any legitimate issue anyone has with him....
But those with issues also don't acknowledge any positives from the club under his tenure
