Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

[Telltails]

Its obvious Hastings hasn't.

On the contrary "couldn't wait to get up the highway quick enough". Players move on alot quicker than fans - have to appease the new group of fans of their new club. It wouldn't matter what he said or did at this point people have already formed an opinion on him and once that happens it usually sticks like glue.

 

[wet tiger coloured bird]

Is there any other NRL player that does as much of these “honest“ or “open-up, heart on sleeve” style interviews as Hastings? He seems to pump out one per week.

yes forgot his name i think surname was megan and first name harry

 

[Noggon]

Of course. All this was in our control. Sheens and Benji made their choice.

See a lot of bagging Hastings on here but simple facts are when he played we could beat allcomers. We were winning. After that gf win we could have built a culture and been one of the clubs that players would take a paycut to play for, instead going on for 20 years only seen poor retention of quality players & paying overs. How did that happen? I liked Madge but it just wasn't working and it took 3 seasons to work that out. Most clubs would axe after 1st failed season. Having said that, we couldn't even attract an up n coming gun coach. Must be most players n coaches look at Tiges and think...nah thanks still going nowhere.

 

[twentyforty]

See a lot of bagging Hastings on here but simple facts are when he played we could beat allcomers. We were winning. After that gf win we could have built a culture and been one of the clubs that players would take a paycut to play for, instead going on for 20 years only seen poor retention of quality players & paying overs. How did that happen? I liked Madge but it just wasn't working and it took 3 seasons to work that out. Most clubs would axe after 1st failed season. Having said that, we couldn't even attract an up n coming gun coach. Must be most players n coaches look at Tiges and think...nah thanks still going nowhere.

Madge will be back. The last time we re-signed a coach then sacked him, we begged him to return.

 

[Noggon]

Madge will be back. The last time we re-signed a coach then sacked him, we begged him to return.

Maybe that is one of the problems with the culture...persistence with failures

 

[twentyforty]

Maybe that is one of the problems with the culture...persistence with failures

No, the problem is, as you’ve succinctly eluded to, we continually ask the wrong question...”who is doing the wrong thing” s/b “what are we doing wrong”

 

[Noggon]

No, the problem is, as you’ve succinctly eluded to, we continually ask the wrong question...”who is doing the wrong thing” s/b “what are we doing wrong”

Or observing winning culture in other clubs and asking how they do it. Copying success. Tiges don't seem to learn from mistakes...they repeat them. It can't be just players & coaches. Management & admin are not providing a platform. That's obvious. Maybe an overhaul of the whole structure of the club top to bottom is the only thing to do. Start again. Can't be any worse than 20 years of failing.

 

[Defiant]

Makes sense (ok super long threads don't. Seriously anyone else lost as to what people are talking about sometimes? ?? )

Signing another pom with Bateman means clubman and comradery take hold. People like to play with people they know.

Braith Anasta said it himself "when they (Beau Ryan and Chris H) left it was like a bomb hit the place. I turned up".... Ofcourse Braith had his own faults.... That Comradery is what we want to develop in healthy ways. Hence if we are signing a Pom it's likely to be someone playing with Bateman. (Robein ?)

I'm sure they might have made peace these days but Heino's position was untenable at the Tigers. Robbie at the time could not forgive Heino for not diving on the ball in the final against the Roosters. He refused to ever talk to him again. My source on this is solid.

 

[sleeve]

Tales from the morgue, when will this Hastings crap end?

 

[twentyforty]

Or observing winning culture in other clubs and asking how they do it. Copying success. Tiges don't seem to learn from mistakes...they repeat them. It can't be just players & coaches. Management & admin are not providing a platform. That's obvious. Maybe an overhaul of the whole structure of the club top to bottom is the only thing to do. Start again. Can't be any worse than 20 years of failing.

I don’t know that they’re that bad that they need to copy other successful clubs? It’s not rocket science? From the outside it looks like we’re continually throwing up ideas, new things to try, new 3 year plans. It’s a sign of lack of stability. As an example, every so often we have a focus on winning the Flegg, but why hasn’t that been a focus from day one? We were offered state of the art facilities at the same time as Penrith and other clubs but refused for what ever reason, now we are all for the idea of a CoE?
If there’s one thing they can garner from successful clubs it’s buried in words like “have a long term plan” “stick to the plan” “have direction” regardless of who leaves or joins the club.

 

[Noggon]

I don’t know that they’re that bad that they need to copy other successful clubs? It’s not rocket science? From the outside it looks like we’re continually throwing up ideas, new things to try, new 3 year plans. It’s a sign of lack of stability. As an example, every so often we have a focus on winning the Flegg, but why hasn’t that been a focus from day one? We were offered state of the art facilities at the same time as Penrith and other clubs but refused for what ever reason, now we are all for the idea of a CoE?
If there’s one thing they can garner from successful clubs it’s buried in words like “have a long term plan” “stick to the plan” “have direction” regardless of who leaves or joins the club.

I suppose it comes down to the interpretation of success. How many finals series Tiges in since 2005? And consecutive finals series? Maguire was there for 3 years and each year worse than the previous. I don't think anyone expects immediate success, but definitely improvement season upon season, and consistency

 

[jirskyr]

Can we also assume that you would have no idea how much money the club actually spent ‘behind closed doors’?
In any case, profit margins and spreadsheets don’t build club culture, attitude does.
I’d say the club showing they’re willingness to stand up for themselves when they’re right, particularly against the odds, shows character and tenacity. I’d also imagine the players would appreciate the front office getting their hands dirty, even if only as a show of solidarity.
I know when management backs my crew in on-site issues, it absolutely builds positive company culture.
‘Exceptionally poor management’ you say?
What’s your acceptable formula for $ investment vs improving club culture?

Yes you can assume I have no idea how much money they spend behind closed doors. But I am not the one making an argument that the club should have done more.

The rest of what you say is just talk.

No club has ever successfully brought a case against the NRL for results on a field. Not Geoff Toovey's "there's got to be an investigation", nor other notorious referee calls (e.g. Roosters-Raiders Grand Final, Turbo's match-winning forward pass etc.). There's no precedent. No club has even attempted to bring a case based on a ref's decision, let alone win one - not even attempted to do it.

I also personally think it shows a bad culture if you are to kick and scream over results. It sends another kind of message when you blame others for your bad situation and kick stones and make legal threats instead of just getting on with your season. Certainly no player should ever have that mindset.

Your analogy with the on-site crew isn't relevant. NRL players still get paid. The conditions under which they perform did not change. Nobody at the Tigers was left out of pocket or unfairly treated by workplace law. Half those players aren't even with the club any more.

My acceptable formula is to spend all the money you have on development and culture internally, and spend none of it pissing away on pointless legal action. Because bet your bottom dollar, should the Tigers have brought a frivolous case, losing and potentially even facing a penalty (e.g. paying NRL's legal fees), they would have been slammed by fans and the media for wasting time and money, for being losers, and now you have head office off-side in any future dealings where you try to get the NRL to do you a favour.

Lee H may indeed be arrogant and lack football smarts, but he's a very successful lawyer, and surely, if anything, a club with a lawyer as Chairperson should be heeding that lawyer's advice.

 

[leichhardtjunior]

Yeah right. The club threatening legal action if we don’t get more penalties going our way is gonna improve morale. 😂
We were backed into a corner and had to respond. Did we get carried away with the moment? Possibly, but it stays on point with our primary motive (all show and no go) as we saw in the “tales of tiger town” a day in the lives of a wooden spoon club.

Cue the stone kickers…
‘The club threatening legal action if we don’t get more penalties’..!
What a jaded and skewed perspective of what really happened 🙄
Your real issue is this…
BooHoo Ive had to ‘support’ (loosely applied) an unsuccessful team..
Stomp Stomp, Sulk Sulk, Whinge Whinge, etc..
Big boys move on 👍

 

[Yossarian]

See a lot of bagging Hastings on here but simple facts are when he played we could beat allcomers. We were winning. After that gf win we could have built a culture and been one of the clubs that players would take a paycut to play for, instead going on for 20 years only seen poor retention of quality players & paying overs. How did that happen? I liked Madge but it just wasn't working and it took 3 seasons to work that out. Most clubs would axe after 1st failed season. Having said that, we couldn't even attract an up n coming gun coach. Must be most players n coaches look at Tiges and think...nah thanks still going nowhere.

Hastings played 16 games in 2022. We won 4 of them, two of them by one point in the last minute.

 

[jirskyr]

Cue the stone kickers…
‘The club threatening legal action if we don’t get more penalties’..!
What a jaded and skewed perspective of what really happened 🙄
Your real issue is this…
BooHoo Ive had to ‘support’ (loosely applied) an unsuccessful team..
Stomp Stomp, Sulk Sulk, Whinge Whinge, etc..
Big boys move on 👍

I'm very confused by these comments. Were you not, in the previous post, saying that legal action would have set a tone of management supporting the players and we should have in fact "kicked stones"?

 

[jirskyr]

Hastings played 16 games in 2022. We won 4 of them, two of them by one point in the last minute.

It's amazing revisionism going on with the 2022 season. No matter how you dice it - whether you isolate the games with Hastings at halfback, or lock, it was one of the worst seasons ever and this guy was supposed to be one of our key leaders / ball handlers.

I'm not anti-Hastings and I would have been just fine keeping him on, but claims of him being our best player or compulsory to a turn-around in fortunes are an incredibly long stretch.

Certainly Hastings was one of our more vocal and earnest players in 2022, and I think that's what's convinced a portion of the fanbase that he was indispensable. But as you say - 4 wins from 16 is horrendous, no matter how one might try to analyse-out Hastings' culpability.

Anyway we'll have a very good litmus test 2022, because Knights aren't much better a side than Tigers and Hastings is being given the keys to that ship. If Knights have a red hot run 2022, or not, we'll have much more data for the discussion.

 

[Odessa]

It's amazing revisionism going on with the 2022 season. No matter how you dice it - whether you isolate the games with Hastings at halfback, or lock, it was one of the worst seasons ever and this guy was supposed to be one of our key leaders / ball handlers.

I'm not anti-Hastings and I would have been just fine keeping him on, but claims of him being our best player or compulsory to a turn-around in fortunes are an incredibly long stretch.

Certainly Hastings was one of our more vocal and earnest players in 2022, and I think that's what's convinced a portion of the fanbase that he was indispensable. But as you say - 4 wins from 16 is horrendous, no matter how one might try to analyse-out Hastings' culpability.

Anyway we'll have a very good litmus test 2022, because Knights aren't much better a side than Tigers and Hastings is being given the keys to that ship. If Knights have a red hot run 2022, or not, we'll have much more data for the discussion.

Hastings just has to let Ponga play and Ponga has to be fit Nathan Brown had Ponga playing great footy Hastings just has to kick to the corners and give Ponga the ball when he wants it the Tigers don't have a game breaking superstar Hastings will be great for Newcastle and Ponga if egos don't get in the way

 

[bptiger 0]

Or observing winning culture in other clubs and asking how they do it. Copying success. Tiges don't seem to learn from mistakes...they repeat them. It can't be just players & coaches. Management & admin are not providing a platform. That's obvious. Maybe an overhaul of the whole structure of the club top to bottom is the only thing to do. Start again. Can't be any worse than 20 years of failing.

I think u are putting to much into this culture and structure thing , so let’s look at the most successful clubs over the last 5-10 years , I would say there’s 4 or 5
Melbourne
Rooters
South’s
Penrith
So let’s break it down on these 4
Well the 1st thing is they are all owned or backed by single owners , which means they are able to entice the best juniors or the best up and comers as well as keeping the best players on lower contracts , they have the best coaches and I am sure the best back room staff . So when u compare this to the English premier soccer , look who dominates there competition, Manchester city , Chelsea , Liverpool, these clubs owned by single or very rich groups, WELL can u see the same pattern to our league , so culture and structure I think comes down to MONEY, MONEY and more MONEY, because all clubs try there best for that same culture , so it all comes down to how much money u can put into it .

 

[leichhardtjunior]

Yes you can assume I have no idea how much money they spend behind closed doors. But I am not the one making an argument that the club should have done more.

The rest of what you say is just talk.

No club has ever successfully brought a case against the NRL for results on a field. Not Geoff Toovey's "there's got to be an investigation", nor other notorious referee calls (e.g. Roosters-Raiders Grand Final, Turbo's match-winning forward pass etc.). There's no precedent. No club has even attempted to bring a case based on a ref's decision, let alone win one - not even attempted to do it.

I also personally think it shows a bad culture if you are to kick and scream over results. It sends another kind of message when you blame others for your bad situation and kick stones and make legal threats instead of just getting on with your season. Certainly no player should ever have that mindset.

Your analogy with the on-site crew isn't relevant. NRL players still get paid. The conditions under which they perform did not change. Nobody at the Tigers was left out of pocket or unfairly treated by workplace law. Half those players aren't even with the club any more.

My acceptable formula is to spend all the money you have on development and culture internally, and spend none of it pissing away on pointless legal action. Because bet your bottom dollar, should the Tigers have brought a frivolous case, losing and potentially even facing a penalty (e.g. paying NRL's legal fees), they would have been slammed by fans and the media for wasting time and money, for being losers, and now you have head office off-side in any future dealings where you try to get the NRL to do you a favour.

Lee H may indeed be arrogant and lack football smarts, but he's a very successful lawyer, and surely, if anything, a club with a lawyer as Chairperson should be heeding that lawyer's advice.

Disagree.
The players were livid by the result.
Their management supported them in their stance.
Management supporting the workforce (and vice versa) IS company culture.
We can argue over roster, but imagine we field a team that wants to play for their management..? Wow there’s a novel Wests Tigers thought!
What was it that Jack said… something about winning starting in the front office..?

All due respect to your management credentials, but think I’ll go with Jack on this one 👍

 

[Noggon]

Hastings played 16 games in 2022. We won 4 of them, two of them by one point in the last minute.

Robbed of one against a top 4 team too. Point is we looked like we were gaining momentum, getting a structure, developing belief and straight after his leg got broken, back to zero