Referendum 2023

[AmericanHistoryX]

Maybe they learnt something after Covid. And lock downs.

 

[Tucker]

They got you where they want you. Now its all about racism. Tear us apart again.

100% and the fools are falling for it hook line and sinker.
Racism will have such a minuscule bearing on this result it’s not worth mentioning. However it is getting a run because the yes campaign are getting their arses handed to them and they’ve played their Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon card three weeks early.

 

[earl]

Maybe they learnt something after Covid. And lock downs.

Who ? What ?

You mean how well we managed the pandemic.

I always refer back to the deaths in Australia compared to Florida (similar population size) where the cookers had more power. They had a lot more deaths. That is people's lives. It's no laughing matter. It's not a joke or a conspiracy. It's cold hard facts.

Added:- I just checked the figures and it was about 10 times the number of deaths. That is extreme.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

Who ? What ?

You mean how well we managed the pandemic.

I always refer back to the deaths in Australia compared to Florida (similar population size) where the cookers had more power. They had a lot more deaths. That is people's lives. It's no laughing matter. It's not a joke or a conspiracy. It's cold hard facts.

I understand. You are an insider. You were there at all the meetings. Cant argue with that Earl. You got me.

 

[earl]

I understand. You are an insider. You were there at all the meetings. Cant argue with that Earl. You got me.

It's just facts. It's good to have a set of facts to compare what is being stated and then we can be rational.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

Yes. All facts. Vote Yes. Afterall the rich write the history books. The poor - novels.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

Close thread. We have the facts.

 

[Tucker]

I understand. You are an insider. You were there at all the meetings. Cant argue with that Earl. You got me.

Lol don’t argue with that guy, he isn’t worth it.

 

[AmericanHistoryX]

Lol don’t argue with that guy, he isn’t worth it.

He is worth it. I like Earl. You too.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Is this your criticism of the yes campaign ?

Do you think the no campaign should be stating how bad the atrocities that occured in Australia have been ? Should they mention the stolen generation ? Should they mention genocide ?

Would the understructure be better than what is now if the genocide didn't occur ? How would you know this ?

So....why does it need to be enshrined in the Constitution? What is stopping the Albanese Government making these changes on Monday?

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Some Australians seem more outraged by accusations of racism than by racism itself

Because they are two separate important issues and it is very important that they are dealt with separately.

I am outraged by accusations of racism in the discussion of the Voice referendum because it is a disgusting and lazy tactic designed to shut down discussion of the topic. There can be no rational, reasonable, logical proper discussion on a very important topic when all one side needs to do is raise the whiff of racism to shut the discussion down and disarm valid arguments. Lazy and intellectually barren.

Case in point being the "article" you posted

This is a good opinion piece on the race
topic if you care to take the time & read:

Bizarre that we can be having a debate about enshrining a listening body intended to reset the dialogue between the original inhabitants of the continent and the settlers who turned up in waves after 1788 – and yet a necessary conversation about racism, led by people with lived experience of racism, be deemed out of bounds.
Let’s step through this. Indigenous Australians have proposed a voice to parliament. They’ve proposed a voice in part because institutionalised racism

Ok that is all you need to read of this article. There is absolutely zero institutional racism in Australia. NONE. Not any at all. Unequivocally. There is without doubt repercussions of historic racism that is inter-generational and indigenous people deal with today but to suggest there is institutionalised racism is disgusting, disingenuous and intellectually fraudulent.

 

[bptiger 0]

So....why does it need to be enshrined in the Constitution? What is stopping the Albanese Government making these changes on Monday?

Because it’s all about ALBO and the Labour Party, . Because 50 billion dollars a year plus all royalties that they receive and they are still living like they do , can only mean ONE THING the money anti getting to the people who need it , the activists and the white First Nations are all living like millionaires, check out all the ones who are leading the YES vote and see how rich they are , u might be surprised

 

[earl]

So....why does it need to be enshrined in the Constitution?

I'm not the right person to say why we need to enshrine this in the Constitution. I suggest you can get better answers from people that have proposed this change.

My understanding of this change is that it is simply a new feedback mechanism and enshrining it in the constitution is about ensuring that this feedback mechanism remains.

It was put forward via Indigenous people.

I will give an example of when feedback may help. I remember years ago a lady commenting on TV that one of the reasons for such high incarceration rates was that some Indigenous people got caught doing dumb stuff when they were already close to getting locked up. They would for instance not pay a fine. If society let these little things go maybe it would lower incarceration and lead to less deaths in custody. I'd suggest as well that Indigenous people in communities that have these issues can provide better feedback than what I've just done.

What is stopping the Albanese Government making these changes on Monday?

I didn't mention any changes. I'll be honest. I don't believe that many people on here or anywhere can fix these issues. I posted earlier and I firmly believe this. If you believe you are discriminated against and you don't work hard to improve your life or change your expectations it will be hard for you to get ahead and/or be happy and well-adjusted.

 

[earl]

There is absolutely zero institutional racism in Australia.

Do you really believe this ? How do you define institutional racism ? Can you explain why the closing the gap initiative exists if there is no racism ?

Home | Closing the Gap

www.closingthegap.gov.au

I suppose I view it pretty simply. Indigenous people have clearly had it tougher in general than I and most of my peers have had it. This is clearly articulated via the closing the gap initiative that I believe all governments have agreed too.

So I suppose the point about institutional racism doesn't really matter does it. If a group of people are clearly worse off than the average person shouldn't we do something to help ?

 

[earl]

Because it’s all about ALBO and the Labour Party, . Because 50 billion dollars a year plus all royalties that they receive and they are still living like they do , can only mean ONE THING the money anti getting to the people who need it , the activists and the white First Nations are all living like millionaires, check out all the ones who are leading the YES vote and see how rich they are , u might be surprised

So much here but it's hard to get to the actual facts. My understanding is the the voice has been put forward by Indigenous people. Yes Labor have put it forward as they are in government but it's an Indigenous initiative.

I assume you are stating that Indigenous people don't have the same standards of living in general than other people when you state they are "still living like they do". I have no idea where you get that 50 billion figure from but the voice is about getting more value out of that spend.

I am a millionaire. It's not that hard today. I don't consider myself rich. First nation people as you also state don't appear to have the same standard of living as myself and my peers and you basically state that. I'm not sure if your point about them being millionaires has any relevance to the topic that is being discussed.

You can't have your cake and eat it too right. Are they rich as you state or are they poor as you state which appears to be backed up by the data.

It's an emotional post full of feeling but I don't see or hear any real facts of any significance.

 

[Merlot]

see the building industry n farmers are fighting equal pay based on sex, a bluger is a bludger,woman are more valued in the friut/veg/farming sector than men ????,big NO from me

 

[bptiger 0]

So much here but it's hard to get to the actual facts. My understanding is the the voice has been put forward by Indigenous people. Yes Labor have put it forward as they are in government but it's an Indigenous initiative.

I assume you are stating that Indigenous people don't have the same standards of living in general than other people when you state they are "still living like they do". I have no idea where you get that 50 billion figure from but the voice is about getting more value out of that spend.

I am a millionaire. It's not that hard today. I don't consider myself rich. First nation people as you also state don't appear to have the same standard of living as myself and my peers and you basically state that. I'm not sure if your point about them being millionaires has any relevance to the topic that is being discussed.

You can't have your cake and eat it too right. Are they rich as you state or are they poor as you state which appears to be backed up by the data.

It's an emotional post full of feeling but I don't see or hear any real facts of any significance.

Talk about twisting my post , read the thing again , it’s about ur people stealing from the poor people living in the bush and how the privileged ones live like kings , and yes every year the tax payers of this racist land hand over around 50 billion dollars to help ur people but Iam sure a lot finds it way into the privileged ones coffers . Surly u can’t be that blind with ur inappropriate reply

 

[Mistymuzzle]

I'm not the right person to say why we need to enshrine this in the Constitution. I suggest you can get better answers from people that have proposed this change.

And yet you will vote yes to change the constitution. This is the problem.

My understanding of this change is that it is simply a new feedback mechanism and enshrining it in the constitution is about ensuring that this feedback mechanism remains.

It was put forward via Indigenous people.

Yep, all good things. The Voice is a good idea, a worthy update on the previously failed ATSIC. Could be legislated on Monday, with no need for division or updating the Constitution.

I will give an example of when feedback may help. I remember years ago a lady commenting on TV that one of the reasons for such high incarceration rates was that some Indigenous people got caught doing dumb stuff when they were already close to getting locked up. They would for instance not pay a fine. If society let these little things go maybe it would lower incarceration and lead to less deaths in custody. I'd suggest as well that Indigenous people in communities that have these issues can provide better feedback than what I've just done.

So your solution to disproportionate incarceration is allow indigenous people to commit crimes without punishment? So if an indigenous person commits a crime...play on but if a non indigenous person commits the crime? What could go wrong. Like everyone else, I dont know how the Voice will be chosen, but I hope your name is on the list Earl. That is groundbreaking.

I didn't mention any changes. I'll be honest. I don't believe that many people on here or anywhere can fix these issues. I posted earlier and I firmly believe this. If you believe you are discriminated against and you don't work hard to improve your life or change your expectations it will be hard for you to get ahead and/or be happy and well-adjusted.

And yet you will vote yes to change the Constitution. Bravo.
The changes are the proposed amendement to the Constitution. Albaneses Government could pass the Voice as legislation on Monday without any need for Constitution enshrinement and change.

 

[Mistymuzzle]

Do you really believe this ?

Not only do I believe it, it is a measureable fact. Please point me to the law, regulation or government institution that disadvantages indigenous people? There are literally federal laws that prevent institutional racism. It is punishable by gaol.

Can you explain why the closing the gap initiative exists if there is no racism ?

Ive already explained this. There was historic institutional racism and the effects are inter-generational and the effects are still felt today.

Home | Closing the Gap

www.closingthegap.gov.au

I suppose I view it pretty simply. Indigenous people have clearly had it tougher in general than I and most of my peers have had it. This is clearly articulated via the closing the gap initiative that I believe all governments have agreed too.

No problem with that. Needs to be fixed by the Government. Could be legislated on Monday.

So I suppose the point about institutional racism doesn't really matter does it. If a group of people are clearly worse off than the average person shouldn't we do something to help ?

no problem with that. Please explain why it needs to be enshrined within the Constitution?

 

[Strider]

Voting yes ❤️ Hope progress of our country is shown to be true