Coaches? Players? Management?

twentyforty said:
I have a rough idea?
Remember when Madge was being continuously hauled in for some “robust discussions”? The outcome was the board wanted a transfer of responsibilities from HC to Board. I think Brooks may have been caught in the crossfire at one point when he was asked to explain why he was dropped, but he said..”that’s news to me”
I think Richo explained it very well with his remark, “people need to stay in their own lane.”
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Hmmm… I don’t know …

It’s interesting that other clubs can have infighting and coach sackings and not be utter crap for a decade …
 
On the issue of why former Tigers players are seemingly “excelling at their new clubs”……
I don’t see why people are getting so worked up about this - for a whole host of reasons.
Firstly, how true is it? Yes, there are some former players who have left us that are playing well, but also many who aren’t. Furthermore, is that different to any decent player who has left any other club and is playing well elsewhere?

Who are these guys anyway? Some examples everyone keeps throwing up most recently are Blore, Brooks, Talau and before that Moses, Teddy, Pap?? Well these guys are all quality players who played well for us too and then moved to better environments in established teams surrounded by a larger group of quality NRL players and leaders. Maybe in the case of Blore and Talau they both had the attributes but setbacks stifled them and now they are finally reaching their potential. I suggest that there are many more ex players from WTs, both recent and past, that have not improved at all.

Secondly, there are so many reasons that particular players can look better at a new club. Just a few are:
Winning culture at the new club (and simply winning games).
Better quality roster playing with quality players around them makes a huge difference to any decent player.
Established coaching team and style of play, successful proven systems.
New surroundings and fresh start bring out refreshed attitude.
Realisation that a new opportunity presents their chance to prove themselves as a genuine player, increased enthusiasm and effort. Sometimes players move to new homes uprooting families etc and really need to make a go of it.
In some cases it’s a last chance or it’s simply a case of more experience gained and natural development of the player over time.
 
TigerSJ said:
On the issue of why former Tigers players are seemingly “excelling at their new clubs”……
I don’t see why people are getting so worked up about this - for a whole host of reasons.
Firstly, how true is it? Yes, there are some former players who have left us that are playing well, but also many who aren’t. Furthermore, is that different to any decent player who has left any other club and is playing well elsewhere?

Who are these guys anyway? Some examples everyone keeps throwing up most recently are Blore, Brooks, Talau and before that Moses, Teddy, Pap?? Well these guys are all quality players who played well for us too and then moved to better environments in established teams surrounded by a larger group of quality NRL players and leaders. Maybe in the case of Blore and Talau they both had the attributes but setbacks stifled them and now they are finally reaching their potential. I suggest that there are many more ex players from WTs, both recent and past, that have not improved at all.
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I started a thread last year on players who left here and were considered good enough to represent proper clubs in grand finals. From memory, the past 3 GFs have featured 9 ex Wests Tigers with only 2 of those considered to be top level players
TigerSJ said:
Secondly, there are so many reasons that particular players can look better at a new club. Just a few are:
Winning culture at the new club (and simply winning games).
Better quality roster playing with quality players around them makes a huge difference to any decent player.
Established coaching team and style of play, successful proven systems.
New surroundings and fresh start bring out refreshed attitude.
Realisation that a new opportunity presents their chance to prove themselves as a genuine player, increased enthusiasm and effort. Sometimes players move to new homes uprooting families etc and really need to make a go of it.
In some cases it’s a last chance or it’s simply a case of more experience gained and natural development of the player over time.
Click to expand...
This is the point being made. Our systems and culture present them as ordinary, they then get picked up by Penrith, Melbourne, Souths and Brisbane and are considered good enough to feature in the most important game of the year.
 
Tom Shines said:
Hmmm… I don’t know …

It’s interesting that other clubs can have infighting and coach sackings and not be utter crap for a decade …
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There's nothing wrong with a little infighting and sacking the odd coach on their own, but when it is underpinned by a fundamental flaw in organisational structure it can cause further breakdown. As an example if you hire someone to do a job and rather than constantly appraise their performance in a positive way, you prefer to override their decisions (move the goal posts), which in turn undermines their effectiveness in their role.
Its possibly the main reason we find it difficult to retain or recruit? imho
 
twentyforty said:
There's nothing wrong with a little infighting and sacking the odd coach on their own, but when it is underpinned by a fundamental flaw in organisational structure it can cause further breakdown. As an example if you hire someone to do a job and rather than constantly appraise their performance in a positive way, you prefer to override their decisions (move the goal posts), which in turn undermines their effectiveness in their role.
Its possibly the main reason we find it difficult to retain or recruit? imho
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well… supposedly these things are behind us now… and we have a previously successful administrator running the joint …

let’s see if results can change under his watch ..
 
Tucker said:
I started a thread last year on players who left here and were considered good enough to represent proper clubs in grand finals. From memory, the past 3 GFs have featured 9 ex Wests Tigers with only 2 of those considered to be top level players

This is the point being made. Our systems and culture present them as ordinary, they then get picked up by Penrith, Melbourne, Souths and Brisbane and are considered good enough to feature in the most important game of the year.
Click to expand...

100% correct. We don’t have a winning culture or even high enough standards (which I believe Benji has spoken about many times and is trying to improve). We don’t have a quality roster of NRL players and are very short on leaders to drive on field effort and intent. The players you mention that are playing in GFs for other teams are playing at clubs that are good enough and have these qualities to make it to the GF.
 
TigerSJ said:
100% correct. We don’t have a winning culture or even high enough standards (which I believe Benji has spoken about many times and is trying to improve). We don’t have a quality roster of NRL players and are very short on leaders to drive on field effort and intent. The players you mention that are playing in GFs for other teams are playing at clubs that are good enough and have these qualities to make it to the GF.
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Yes but your claim “we don’t have a quality roster” seems at odds with this. Guys we didn’t seem essential and let go are filling spots with Premiership contenders and winners every year. Next year will be no different.
Tupou will thrive with Dolphins, Papali’i will kill it with Penrith as will Stef at Melbourne should they get him.
We do have enough good players to win many more games than we do.
 
Manly finished 12th on the ladder last year, but they get a couple more Tigers players who were supposedly unwanted here because they weren’t good enough. Suddenly, they’re in 5th spot and looking like a real threat. Tommy Talau leading try scorer, Luke Brooks leading try assists.
 
Richo is a big step in the right direction, but given the recent decision to continue with 3 home grounds and take a home game to magic round means winning football games is not the #1 priority.
 
Tigerdazz2 said:
At some stage or another it has been mainly the coaches but also players & management (or all 3) that gets the blame in the press & elsewhere over the Wests Tigers dismal lack of success for over a decade.
Once again we are seeing players who we were told in the media (and even on this forum)"haven't performed" or "not of NRL standard" or "not putting in the effort" thriving once they don the jersey of another team.
Coaches have copped the brunt of the criticism over the years as the turnover of coaches at Concord attest.
Seeing stories like this are like a kick in the guts. The Manly Sea Tigers are flying high, Blore is killing it South of the Border. It's nothing new, it's been the same sad tale for over a decade.
The only glimmer of hope is the plethora of talented, but inexperienced young guys coming through our juniors. However, how many of them will WANT to STAY at the Tigers when the glamour clubs (no doubtedly) come calling cheque book in hand? How do you convince these young guys that it's in their best interest to remain loyal to a club that has become the laughing stock of the NRL?
Manly 'master stroke' to end star's finals hoodoo https://www.nine.com.au/sport/nrl/t...gles-round-20-highlights-20240722-p5jvey.html
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And every time there is a common denominator. The teams people are comparing us to have quality rosters full of guys who are competing at the highest levels.
 
Tucker said:
I started a thread last year on players who left here and were considered good enough to represent proper clubs in grand finals. From memory, the past 3 GFs have featured 9 ex Wests Tigers with only 2 of those considered to be top level players

This is the point being made. Our systems and culture present them as ordinary, they then get picked up by Penrith, Melbourne, Souths and Brisbane and are considered good enough to feature in the most important game of the year.
Click to expand...
The former Tigers like Garner and Pauga and Madden are minor bit-part players on cheapish deals mostly. Those grand finals are won/reached mainly by the guys we watched in origin last week.
 
BAGNF05 said:
The former Tigers like Garner and Pauga and Madden are minor bit-part players on cheapish deals mostly. Those grand finals are won/reached mainly by the guys we watched in origin last week.
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Doesnt matter, we determined them surpluss and proper clubs used them to reach or win grand finals.
 
Tigerdazz2 said:
At some stage or another it has been mainly the coaches but also players & management (or all 3) that gets the blame in the press & elsewhere over the Wests Tigers dismal lack of success for over a decade.
Once again we are seeing players who we were told in the media (and even on this forum)"haven't performed" or "not of NRL standard" or "not putting in the effort" thriving once they don the jersey of another team.
Coaches have copped the brunt of the criticism over the years as the turnover of coaches at Concord attest.
Seeing stories like this are like a kick in the guts. The Manly Sea Tigers are flying high, Blore is killing it South of the Border. It's nothing new, it's been the same sad tale for over a decade.
The only glimmer of hope is the plethora of talented, but inexperienced young guys coming through our juniors. However, how many of them will WANT to STAY at the Tigers when the glamour clubs (no doubtedly) come calling cheque book in hand? How do you convince these young guys that it's in their best interest to remain loyal to a club that has become the laughing stock of the NRL?
Manly 'master stroke' to end star's finals hoodoo https://www.nine.com.au/sport/nrl/t...gles-round-20-highlights-20240722-p5jvey.html
Click to expand...
I couldn’t help but notice one phase of play at Brooky yesterday;
Simpkins to Aloiai to Brooks to Talau!
Bloody hell !
 
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