Benji 2025 and Beyond

I think we need to give Benji a chance! 2024 was always going to be hard and a big learning curve for him . 6 wins this year blooded alot of youngsters seen some improvement from them over the year will be alot better next year . Terrible roster, younger players comes with inconsistency and mistakes and steep learning. I think we can judge Benji in 2025 . Remember Ciraldo had 7 wins last year with arguably a better roster in Reed mahoney, Addo Carr, Burton, Kikau, Kiraz and Averillo,. Look what happened when Crichton arrived. I believe Luai can have a bigger impact, I've seen the improvement in Galvin,Fainu, Pole and even Bula . I'm hoping for big improvements in 2025 like the Bulldogs, would love top 8 but I think top 12 is the bar , 13 to 17 is a fail next year in my opinion.
 
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jrtiger said:
irrespective of what you think of Marshall, the facts are these.

- the roster is improving
- the kids will be another year older
- Richardson has said "there will be no excuses in 2025"

Richardson was talking about seeing similarities in the 2002 Panthers side that won the comp the year after last week. he won't be as patient next year.

if Marshall starts the season 2-6 or worse I think he'll be gone.
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It has to be that way.

My biggest problem is were not prepared for the 2-6 result. John Morris would be the only option to take over from Benji.

There must be a "no excuses" 2025. I am hoping that Richo is ready for a real rebuild.
 
I have no evidence to suggest that Benji is part of the problem. I'm not saying that he isn't just that there is no evidence that support it. Let's put aside how he was appointed and the emotion behind that. He is here now, he is contracted and he is doing a job. Let's look at that objectively.

The club has been in turmoil for a decade plus and, thanks to some external pressure from fans, made a decsion to put in place a seasoned CEO. Richo and the interim board, along with the coaching staff, put together a strategic plan to develop the club into a top tier NRL club. This involves developing a system that enables winning on and off the field. Richo's succcess is tied as much to the football side of the house as bringing in $ for HBG. Let's face it the big corporate $ won't come if we continue to languish at the bottom of the ladder.

Richo and Benji have consistently spoken about the plan and sticking to it. This plan is clearly based on developing our juniors. Benji has definitely accelerated the development of many juniors this year. While outwardly they state that this was a deleiberate decision I expect that much of it was a result of our lack of skills and depth.

Let's use the Dogs as a comparision. Not to compare rosters or coaching skills; but to look at the journey of both clubs.
  • Dogs performance was on par with ours, bottom of the table with an unbalnced roster.
  • Dogs sign a proven administrator in Gus - we sign a proven administrator, but later in the timeline.
  • Dogs signed a bunch of quality players and a new experienced coach but performance does not improve - we sign Api, Papalii, Klemmer and Olam and unearth Bula, the Fainus and Galvin and appoint Beni as the coach - no change.
  • Dogs have heaps of internal dramas as culture is addressed; fans and the media label Ciraldo as a dud and want him sacked - Tigers fans and media question Benji's coaching ability
  • Dogs sign a bunch of fringe FG quality players from other clubs and add a couple of top tier players - and make the eight. Tigers make it clear they are offloading deadwood and sign Luai, Taruva, Skelton, Hunt and Bird along with a bunch of cup level players as depth.
While the clubs have done things differently in the the respect of player selections we are clearly locked in step, just behind the Dogs in terms of rebuilding.

So is Benji part of the problem going forward? Clearly he lacks experience but he is not stupid. He, along with Richo, have stated all year that they have a plan and are executing it. They knew we had deficiencies and were focussed on looking at what we had in the pipeline to prioritise development and recruitment for 2025. I'm pretty sure that 2024 was not about winning!

I have not heard any concrete evidence to suggest that he can't coach. Let me clarify - I'm also not saying that he is a good coach. Less Bateman's comment about Benji's treatment of (underperforming) experienced players v junior players there has been nothing from members "in the know" or players, player managers stating he has no idea. I'm not close enough to the club, players or management to make a defining judgement (I wish I was), but the lack of commentary probably means that he is doing OK. Benji is playing a key role in the transitioning our young Wests Tigers side. Should we be talking about sacking him now? Not a chance; he deserves the opportunity to follow through with the plan and complete, in conjunction with Richo, the transition of our club from basket case to permiership contenders.

Does that mean we give him a free ride? Not at all. Regardless of what he thinks he needs the club should provide him with a quality mentor and a strong coaching staff as key enablers. A successful Benji will mean a successful club in the short to medium term. Sacking Benji now is Wests Tigers doing Wests Tigers shit and starting on yet another misguided adventure.

If there is hard evidence out there that suggests Benji isn't cutting it I'm all ears. But all I have heard so far is opinions from individuals as far removed from what is happening on the ground as I am.
 
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Jolls said:
I have no evidence to suggest that Benji is part of the problem. I'm not saying that he isn't just that there is no evidence that support it. Let's put aside how he was appointed and the emotion behind that. He is here now, he is contracted and he is doing a job. Let's look at that objectively.

The club has been in turmoil for a decade plus and, thanks to some external pressure from fans, made a decsion to put in place a seasoned CEO. Richo and the interim board, along with the coaching staff, put together a strategic plan to develop the club into a top tier NRL club. This involves developing a system that enables winning on and off the field. Richo's succcess is tied as much to the football side of the house as bringing in $ for HBG. Let's face it the big corporate $ won't come if we continue to languish at the bottom of the ladder.

Richo and Benji have consistently spoken about the plan and sticking to it. This plan is clearly based on developing our juniors. Benji has definitely accelerated the development of many juniors this year. While outwardly they state that this was a deleiberate decision I expect that much of it was a result of our lack of skills and depth.

Let's use the Dogs as a comparision. Not to compare rosters or coaching skills; but to look at the journey of both clubs.
  • Dogs performance was on par with ours, bottom of the table with an unbalnced roster.
  • Dogs sign a proven administrator in Gus - we sign a proven administrator, but later in the timeline.
  • Dogs signed a bunch of quality players and a new experienced coach but performance does not improve - we sign Api, Papalii, Klemmer and Olam and unearth Bula, the Fainus and Galvin and appoint Beni as the coach - no change.
  • Dogs have heaps of internal dramas as culture is addressed; fans and the media label Ciraldo as a dud and want him sacked - Tigers fans and media question Benjis coaching ability
  • Dogs sign a bunch of fringe FG quality players from other clubs and add a couple of top tier players - and make the eight. Tigers make it clear they are offloading deadwood and sign Luai, Taruva, Skelton, Hunt and Bird along with a bunch of cup level players as depth.
While the clubs have done things differently in the the respect of player selections we are clearly locked in step, just behind the Dogs in terms of rebuilding.

So is Benji part of the problem going forward? Clearly he lacks experience but he is not stupid. He, along with Richo, have stated all year that they have a plan and are executing it. They knew we had deficiencies and were focussed on looking at what we had in the pipeline to prioritise development and recruitment for 2025. I'm pretty sure that 2024 was not about winning!

I have not heard any concrete evidence to suggest that he can't coach. Let me clarify - I'm also not saying that he is a good coach. Less Bateman's comment about Benji's treatment of (underperforming) experienced players v junior players there has been nothing from members "in the know" or players, player managers stating he has no idea. I'm not close enough to the club, players or management to make a defining judgement (I wish I was), but the lack of commentary probably means that he is doing OK. Benji is playing a key role in the transitioning our young Wests Tigers side. Should we be talking about sacking him now? Not a chance; he deserves the opportunity to follow through with the plan and complete, in conjunction with Richo, the transition of our club from basket case to permiership contenders.

Does that mean we give him a free ride? Not at all. Regardless of what he thinks he needs the club should provide him with a quality mentor and a strong coaching staff as key enablers. A successful Benji will mean a successful club in the short to medium term. Sacking Benji now is Weests Tigers doing Wests Tigers shit and starting on yet another misguided adventure.

If there is hard evidence out there that suggests Benji isn't cutting it I'm all ears. But all I have heard so far is opinions from individuals as far removed from what is happening on the ground as I am.
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brilliant post mate.

further to what you've said, the Dogs bought experience first and then brought the kids thru. we've done the opposite, which has obviously hurt us in the short term.

we're now trying to fill our squad out with guys like Hunt, Bird, Montoya and Hetherington to complement the young kids, whereas the Dogs had signed blokes like Tracey, Curran, Mann and Salmon first before bringing thru the likes of Hughes, Hayes, Hopoi and Hayward.

fingers crossed our experienced buys plus our marquees can give us what we need. I'm not saying we'll end up in the same position as the Dogs in 12 months, but we are doing something similar with our recruitment at the minute.
 
jrtiger said:
brilliant post mate.

further to what you've said, the Dogs bought experience first and then brought the kids thru. we've done the opposite, which has obviously hurt us in the short term.

we're now trying to fill our squad out with guys like Hunt, Bird, Montoya and Hetherington to complement the young kids, whereas the Dogs had signed blokes like Tracey, Curran, Mann and Salmon first before bringing thru the likes of Hughes, Hayes, Hopoi and Hayward.

fingers crossed our experienced buys plus our marquees can give us what we need. I'm not saying we'll end up in the same position as the Dogs in 12 months, but we are doing something similar with our recruitment at the minute.
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jrtiger,

exactly whay we can't compare the clubs from a roster or coaching perspective. Despite having exactly the same purpose and endstate - we have chosen a different path to get there.

We can look at the wooden spoon in two ways: yet another slap in the face from a club with no idea what it's doing or a step in the process of developing the Wests Tigers system. I think the evidence points to the latter - now we just have to get the execution right.
 
liltiger said:
I put that down to the fact we havnt really had a permanent set of halves togeather. Between Seizer being suspended and experimenting with Sullivan and Fainu theres no continuity in the halves.
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That's even more of a blight on the coaching staff.

There's no system in place, players coming in don't know what they're supposed to be doing.

it's all Marshall ball all the time.
 
Saturnalia said:
That's even more of a blight on the coaching staff.

There's no system in place, players coming in don't know what they're supposed to be doing.

it's all Marshall ball all the time.
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Yep. Its not a first grade franchise at the moment.
Everyone is hogging the ball or going for the big hero highlights plays.
 
Jolls said:
I have no evidence to suggest that Benji is part of the problem. I'm not saying that he isn't just that there is no evidence that support it. Let's put aside how he was appointed and the emotion behind that. He is here now, he is contracted and he is doing a job. Let's look at that objectively.

The club has been in turmoil for a decade plus and, thanks to some external pressure from fans, made a decsion to put in place a seasoned CEO. Richo and the interim board, along with the coaching staff, put together a strategic plan to develop the club into a top tier NRL club. This involves developing a system that enables winning on and off the field. Richo's succcess is tied as much to the football side of the house as bringing in $ for HBG. Let's face it the big corporate $ won't come if we continue to languish at the bottom of the ladder.

Richo and Benji have consistently spoken about the plan and sticking to it. This plan is clearly based on developing our juniors. Benji has definitely accelerated the development of many juniors this year. While outwardly they state that this was a deleiberate decision I expect that much of it was a result of our lack of skills and depth.

Let's use the Dogs as a comparision. Not to compare rosters or coaching skills; but to look at the journey of both clubs.
  • Dogs performance was on par with ours, bottom of the table with an unbalnced roster.
  • Dogs sign a proven administrator in Gus - we sign a proven administrator, but later in the timeline.
  • Dogs signed a bunch of quality players and a new experienced coach but performance does not improve - we sign Api, Papalii, Klemmer and Olam and unearth Bula, the Fainus and Galvin and appoint Beni as the coach - no change.
  • Dogs have heaps of internal dramas as culture is addressed; fans and the media label Ciraldo as a dud and want him sacked - Tigers fans and media question Benji's coaching ability
  • Dogs sign a bunch of fringe FG quality players from other clubs and add a couple of top tier players - and make the eight. Tigers make it clear they are offloading deadwood and sign Luai, Taruva, Skelton, Hunt and Bird along with a bunch of cup level players as depth.
While the clubs have done things differently in the the respect of player selections we are clearly locked in step, just behind the Dogs in terms of rebuilding.

So is Benji part of the problem going forward? Clearly he lacks experience but he is not stupid. He, along with Richo, have stated all year that they have a plan and are executing it. They knew we had deficiencies and were focussed on looking at what we had in the pipeline to prioritise development and recruitment for 2025. I'm pretty sure that 2024 was not about winning!

I have not heard any concrete evidence to suggest that he can't coach. Let me clarify - I'm also not saying that he is a good coach. Less Bateman's comment about Benji's treatment of (underperforming) experienced players v junior players there has been nothing from members "in the know" or players, player managers stating he has no idea. I'm not close enough to the club, players or management to make a defining judgement (I wish I was), but the lack of commentary probably means that he is doing OK. Benji is playing a key role in the transitioning our young Wests Tigers side. Should we be talking about sacking him now? Not a chance; he deserves the opportunity to follow through with the plan and complete, in conjunction with Richo, the transition of our club from basket case to permiership contenders.

Does that mean we give him a free ride? Not at all. Regardless of what he thinks he needs the club should provide him with a quality mentor and a strong coaching staff as key enablers. A successful Benji will mean a successful club in the short to medium term. Sacking Benji now is Wests Tigers doing Wests Tigers shit and starting on yet another misguided adventure.

If there is hard evidence out there that suggests Benji isn't cutting it I'm all ears. But all I have heard so far is opinions from individuals as far removed from what is happening on the ground as I am.
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Hey Jolls, great post. Level headed and to the point without the over reactions and emotions.
I do believe that we are somewhat walking a tightrope and things could go either way for us. A lot will depend on the final bits of recruitment but more importantly the strengthening of our coaching team with experienced support for Benji.
 
No doubt the Bulldogs are an improved team but when they are kept back the ten metres the and the whistle gets put away the Bulldogs become vulnerable - especially after a long season. Manly and the Cowboys showed the way by rolling right through them up the middle - with their big men on the front foot and quick play the balls. If the Bulldogs don't get the run of possession and favourable calls from the ref their defence opens up just like any other team.
 
Benji was always going to struggle this year. A rookie with zero experience, with the worst roster in the comp for which he had some, but not complete control over.

He needs experienced assistants with him. Farah NEVER should have been involved. He did less than nothing, needs to be removed from all official club duties, other than someone to have a beer with sponsors, thats the only way he can help the club.

Benji needs a very experienced head coach as his assistant. Non-negotiable. No more jobs for the boys. Even Heighno is questionable but as a water boy he's probably ok to stay.

Benji has the first half of the season to show he's got what it takes, he's currently one of the last remaining aftereffects of the Lee=Pascoe fiasco. It was a very poor decision at the time, if it doesn't get better than Benji needs to step aside.
 
Mistymuzzle said:
The massive difference at the Bulldogs is less about their signings or even their roster. They imported specific grappling and fitness trainers from Penrith who flog their boys hard. Bulldogs improvement is on the back of defence which is on the back of stamina, fitness and toughness.
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We need to sign these guys, but they've probably aligned themselves with Ciraldo from their previous experience. We need to find and PAY the best people we can get to improve us
 
jrtiger said:
Jolls said:
I have no evidence to suggest that Benji is part of the problem. I'm not saying that he isn't just that there is no evidence that support it. Let's put aside how he was appointed and the emotion behind that. He is here now, he is contracted and he is doing a job. Let's look at that objectively.

The club has been in turmoil for a decade plus and, thanks to some external pressure from fans, made a decsion to put in place a seasoned CEO. Richo and the interim board, along with the coaching staff, put together a strategic plan to develop the club into a top tier NRL club. This involves developing a system that enables winning on and off the field. Richo's succcess is tied as much to the football side of the house as bringing in $ for HBG. Let's face it the big corporate $ won't come if we continue to languish at the bottom of the ladder.

Richo and Benji have consistently spoken about the plan and sticking to it. This plan is clearly based on developing our juniors. Benji has definitely accelerated the development of many juniors this year. While outwardly they state that this was a deleiberate decision I expect that much of it was a result of our lack of skills and depth.

Let's use the Dogs as a comparision. Not to compare rosters or coaching skills; but to look at the journey of both clubs.
  • Dogs performance was on par with ours, bottom of the table with an unbalnced roster.
  • Dogs sign a proven administrator in Gus - we sign a proven administrator, but later in the timeline.
  • Dogs signed a bunch of quality players and a new experienced coach but performance does not improve - we sign Api, Papalii, Klemmer and Olam and unearth Bula, the Fainus and Galvin and appoint Beni as the coach - no change.
  • Dogs have heaps of internal dramas as culture is addressed; fans and the media label Ciraldo as a dud and want him sacked - Tigers fans and media question Benji's coaching ability
  • Dogs sign a bunch of fringe FG quality players from other clubs and add a couple of top tier players - and make the eight. Tigers make it clear they are offloading deadwood and sign Luai, Taruva, Skelton, Hunt and Bird along with a bunch of cup level players as depth.
While the clubs have done things differently in the the respect of player selections we are clearly locked in step, just behind the Dogs in terms of rebuilding.

So is Benji part of the problem going forward? Clearly he lacks experience but he is not stupid. He, along with Richo, have stated all year that they have a plan and are executing it. They knew we had deficiencies and were focussed on looking at what we had in the pipeline to prioritise development and recruitment for 2025. I'm pretty sure that 2024 was not about winning!

I have not heard any concrete evidence to suggest that he can't coach. Let me clarify - I'm also not saying that he is a good coach. Less Bateman's comment about Benji's treatment of (underperforming) experienced players v junior players there has been nothing from members "in the know" or players, player managers stating he has no idea. I'm not close enough to the club, players or management to make a defining judgement (I wish I was), but the lack of commentary probably means that he is doing OK. Benji is playing a key role in the transitioning our young Wests Tigers side. Should we be talking about sacking him now? Not a chance; he deserves the opportunity to follow through with the plan and complete, in conjunction with Richo, the transition of our club from basket case to permiership contenders.

Does that mean we give him a free ride? Not at all. Regardless of what he thinks he needs the club should provide him with a quality mentor and a strong coaching staff as key enablers. A successful Benji will mean a successful club in the short to medium term. Sacking Benji now is Wests Tigers doing Wests Tigers shit and starting on yet another misguided adventure.

If there is hard evidence out there that suggests Benji isn't cutting it I'm all ears. But all I have heard so far is opinions from individuals as far removed from what is happening on the ground as I am.
Click to expand...

brilliant post mate.

further to what you've said, the Dogs bought experience first and then brought the kids thru. we've done the opposite, which has obviously hurt us in the short term.

we're now trying to fill our squad out with guys like Hunt, Bird, Montoya and Hetherington to complement the young kids, whereas the Dogs had signed blokes like Tracey, Curran, Mann and Salmon first before bringing thru the likes of Hughes, Hayes, Hopoi and Hayward.

fingers crossed our experienced buys plus our marquees can give us what we need. I'm not saying we'll end up in the same position as the Dogs in 12 months, but we are doing something similar with our recruitment at the minute.
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Sensible post. From a fan's perspective though, it is all about the here and now, particularly given the gap in performance that has existed since 2005, on and off the field.
Whether this strategic intent to build a side on youth (and inexperience at player and coaching level) is the winning formula, time will tell.
What I will say though is that I would have expected at least some slight improvement from last year. Also, I would have thought John Morris, given past experience, is more than an adequate support person. To the extent that the suggestion is that BM be given a "quality" mentor is also a measure of the effort that JM has put in.

Without also knowing how much Benji is open to have a guiding hand, it is hard to say that this type of relationship could work.

I have no doubt Benji and Co. want the club to do well. We all do. What differs is how long we're prepared to wait for it. Yes, BM is a legend of the club, and we'll always be remembered for what he did, but I think there shouldn't be too much latitude afforded (to him) because of this.

Finally, there is no one out there that spoken about Benji's (in)ability to coach, you are right. But looking at the players he's had, where I think you'll agree he has had a direct intervention, do you honestly feel like they are better players, a year later?

Like in his playing career, BM will continue to polarize people, but hopefully will lead to a common good.
 
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