It's time to take the fight back to HBG

[Dr_Ice]

Relying on lower grade part-time coaches to be the pivotal component in the entire development space is a guarantee for failure. When they leave it falls apart.

Penrith and Cronulla have development systems in place. The coaches executes it. The IP is in the club's systems, not the coaches who take it with them when they leave.

One of the biggest failures of Wests Tigers boards and CEOs is not identifying the need for a club coaching director to implement development systems and structures which is adopted in every grade. At the core of this is valuing the fundamentals of the game, drilling this from cubs to NRL. It's clearly an area the club is deficient with years of yardage errors with bad passes, dropped balls, bad play the balls, poor defensive ruck process, poor edge defence, and poor kicking games.

Just this past weekend, Penrith schooled the club in every grade by doing the simple things right, applying pressure, and points came off the back of that. In contrast, Wests NRL, reserve grade, and Flegg teams made dumb errors very early in each game, in the absence of any fatigue, which put them behind in every game from the outset (even Sultanas flegg 24-0 after 20 minutes). That's not a fitness or fatigue issue, that's purely a poor execution of the basics.

Agreed, just worth noting that the previous week we beat the Bulldogs in every grade.

 

[innsaneink]

This is basically Panthers reggies team in a trial v Manly @ LO last year, when the first grade squad was in Vegas
I recall watching this game and thinking it could be the first grade team, the plays are all the same between reserves and firsts....their depth players come up when required and they already know the plays, calls, their roles

Sea Eagles v Panthers – Week 3, 2025

The Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles and Penrith Panthers face off in Week 3 of the 2025 Witzer Pre-season Challenge

www.nrl.com

 

[balmain boy]

I'm going to assume you are comparing us to a club like Penrith- which is ideally where most supporters would like to see us achieve to that level.

But remember- 10 years ago, Penrith where not that much different to what the Tigers are currently now. ("Not that much different" does not equal 'the same'). They were bottom dwellers on a regular basis.

And 10 years ago, the Tigers were coming to the end of a generation of players, produced by the club, that had our club in the conversation for competition 'heavy weights' (to a degree) for a number of years- all produced through a pathways program built by Tim Sheens.

We are currently seeing the results of a pathways system built by...Tim Sheens....starting to produce talent.

10-15 years ago (longer- go back to 2003), were HBG supplying significantly more funds to pathways development? Or was it just better structured, by people that knew what they were doing? Have HGB started supplying less money to pathways? Or have the people responsible for setting up the systems been worse at what they are doing?

Or, did the Panthers club go from poor investment to significant investment with immediate effect? Or did that funding grow over time?

I'm not discounting what you're saying. It's just that you're comparing a structured, long term pathways system at the Panthers (for example) that is proving successful, to one that is being rebuilt (or has been rebuilt) only recently. They are not the same thing.

You don't just drop a $10m dollar bag at something & see success. You build it, over time. The money that the Tigers put into pathways (and none of us KNOW the dollar value- we speculate based on reports & hearsay) is producing players that populate a majority of our club squad. And our junior squads are proving to be at least competitive.

The Bulldogs are throwing a large wad of cash at Pathways now (supposedly). How's that working out? They had to overspend on 2 halves through other club's pathways. And they sit lower on the NRL ladder.

Feels like people just want to be angry & need a villain.

Once again, I find almost everything you ever say is incorrect.

I'm not comparing us to the Panthers now. Yes that's an ideal state to aspire to.

My point is that we haven't even started our journey yet. Pascoe said for years that we were a development club, that developed nobody. We are still not a development club. Sheens setup nothing. We have not and we still are not developing good players. Not since Brooks Moses Teddy and woodsy.

You could look at the Harold Matt's team that won a few years back. We inherited a squad of talented local boys with a string never of talent for that age group. How many are better players now than they were then? Maybe Luke laulilii and Galvin. How many of these talented youngsters have we developed into first graders or are knocking on the door? How many are totally anonymous now in league circles?

Of course it won't just happen overnight. It will take time to reap the true rewards, which is why why we need to start ASAP!!! We need the investment to get the right people involved, setup the systems, start turning good youngsters into Origin players.

Of our current crop only CTM and James Lanyon rank as serious prospects for the future.

 

[The Chad]

Sometimes this site reminds me of this scene

 

[tiger_one]

Sometimes this site reminds me of this scene

"I don't know what I'm yelling about!" 🤣

 

[The Chad]

"I don't know what I'm yelling about!" 🤣

LOUD. NOISES.

 

[Muffstar]

You're talking about revenue generated by the NRL sides.

I'm talking about expenditure. Wests Ashfield has the revenue to cover increased spending on football. In fact it's supposed to be at the very centre of their existence.

Yet year after year they choose not to spend on footy. Reinvesting profits into shinier poker machines. Their reason for existing is not to serve the community but to exploit them.

If you look at Jolls post on the signings thread you'll see a 67 million revenue translates into 1.5 million spent on football. They have the money, they're just only interested in getting richer

The NSW Govt is looking at reducing the 87,000 poker machines in NSW by 50%. So this will have an impact on clubs right across the state who rely heavily on gambling revenue.

 

[batboy]

The NSW Govt is looking at reducing the 87,000 poker machines in NSW by 50%. So this will have an impact on clubs right across the state who rely heavily on gambling revenue.

Awesome
- we’ll have even less cash for football.
(Despite the owners status as a leagues club)

 

[jadtiger]

Awesome
- we’ll have even less cash for football.
(Despite the owners status as a leagues club)

It is about time we were funded by someone reputable and not rely on a benefactor acquiring from gambling addicts and passing on a tiny fraction of what they take.

 

[Telltails]

It is about time we were funded by someone reputable and not rely on a benefactor acquiring from gambling addicts and passing on a tiny fraction of what they take.

I think that was Richardson aim to be financially independent from Wests Ashfield tabled in his report in September before the whistle blower took their shot.....
“We’ve gone from probably losing five and a half million dollars over the last two years to making a profit this year,” he explained.
“We’ve paid off all debt. We don’t have any debt as a club, which is huge."
"We have a new independent board, Strategic Plan set across all departments, and a Club Strategic Plan locked in through to the end of 2028."
I wonder if that plan is still being followed or if it's been put on the back burner..

 

[weststigers]

The NSW Govt is looking at reducing the 87,000 poker machines in NSW by 50%. So this will have an impact on clubs right across the state who rely heavily on gambling revenue.

Would be nice if the government stayed out of our lives and focused on getting rid of things like stamp duty and payroll taxes.

 

[weststigers]

I think that was Richardson aim to be financially independent from Wests Ashfield tabled in his report in September before the whistle blower took their shot.....
“We’ve gone from probably losing five and a half million dollars over the last two years to making a profit this year,” he explained.
“We’ve paid off all debt. We don’t have any debt as a club, which is huge."
"We have a new independent board, Strategic Plan set across all departments, and a Club Strategic Plan locked in through to the end of 2028."
I wonder if that plan is still being followed or if it's been put on the back burner..

I'd quite like to get to the point where Wests Tigers owned it's own leagues club. Would HBG allow it or strip all the revenue?

 

[weststigers]

Looks like the social media cock-ups are back. They just posted last week's presser 10 minutes ago...so incompetent.

 

[BlackWhiteGold]

Once again, I find almost everything you ever say is incorrect.

I'm not comparing us to the Panthers now. Yes that's an ideal state to aspire to.

My point is that we haven't even started our journey yet. Pascoe said for years that we were a development club, that developed nobody. We are still not a development club. Sheens setup nothing. We have not and we still are not developing good players. Not since Brooks Moses Teddy and woodsy.

You could look at the Harold Matt's team that won a few years back. We inherited a squad of talented local boys with a string never of talent for that age group. How many are better players now than they were then? Maybe Luke laulilii and Galvin. How many of these talented youngsters have we developed into first graders or are knocking on the door? How many are totally anonymous now in league circles?

Of course it won't just happen overnight. It will take time to reap the true rewards, which is why why we need to start ASAP!!! We need the investment to get the right people involved, setup the systems, start turning good youngsters into Origin players.

Of our current crop only CTM and James Lanyon rank as serious prospects for the future.

I could write a 2,000 word essay on our pathways over recent years. It's hard to be concise but our pathways program has been nothing short of amateur in comparison to our rivals.

We have a catchment from the inner west out to the Macarthur yet our record identifying, retaining & developing junior talent has been extremely poor.

All my comments are from observing and researching, and all I can say is that our lack of success is due to a multitude of factors, namely lack of finances (in comparison to other clubs), lack of credibility given the club's history & coaches (nepotism apparent), lack of resources & facilities, lack of quality coaching direction, lack of talent scouts etc etc etc. All this over the past 5-6 years since I have been following closely.

I don't know what the club is currently doing to set us on a better path except for lip service from the Interim CEO, just hope it's the start of a better future.

But I can't see us rivalling the Bulldogs, Roosters, Panthers, Eels until we get a large injection of financial support purely for pathways, an established pathways COE and greater coaching direction & support (which finances will aid).

I look at the Bulldogs with envy who have Laundy tipping in private $$$, Gould directing the ship with a know-how in pathways development, a dedicated academy program, specialist coaching support (i.e. specialist halves coaches) & even ex Bulldogs coaching the state U19 team (Josh Jackson I think).

It's just terrible for our whole club to have only 1 player selected for NSW U19 and 4 players across the 3 state school squads for the U18 nationals. Poorest year I can remember over the past 5-6 years in terms of representation.

I respect @balmain boy comments on this issue who doesn't sugar-coat it. Look at our players through the junior grades (now & past few years), we do not retain or recruit a lot of players with the physical or athletic attributes required for NRL. And rarely do we have players who are both physical (190cm+, 96kg+) & athletic types (fast, quick accelerator, good leg speed, aerial ability).

Hopefully now under Mielekamp (prior work by Richo) & Benji, this is changing. But to be honest, not much will change unless SIGNIFICANT money is injected into pathways from HBG, a sponsor or someone like Uncle Harry (or all of the above).

 

[Telltails]

Please remind me of quality FG forward we have produced /developed since Woods.

 

[weststigers]

Once again, I find almost everything you ever say is incorrect.

I'm not comparing us to the Panthers now. Yes that's an ideal state to aspire to.

My point is that we haven't even started our journey yet. Pascoe said for years that we were a development club, that developed nobody. We are still not a development club. Sheens setup nothing. We have not and we still are not developing good players. Not since Brooks Moses Teddy and woodsy.

You could look at the Harold Matt's team that won a few years back. We inherited a squad of talented local boys with a string never of talent for that age group. How many are better players now than they were then? Maybe Luke laulilii and Galvin. How many of these talented youngsters have we developed into first graders or are knocking on the door? How many are totally anonymous now in league circles?

Of course it won't just happen overnight. It will take time to reap the true rewards, which is why why we need to start ASAP!!! We need the investment to get the right people involved, setup the systems, start turning good youngsters into Origin players.

Of our current crop only CTM and James Lanyon rank as serious prospects for the future.

After the bold, I think you wasted your breath.

 

[wstigers11]

I could write a 2,000 word essay on our pathways over recent years. It's hard to be concise but our pathways program has been nothing short of amateur in comparison to our rivals.

We have a catchment from the inner west out to the Macarthur yet our record identifying, retaining & developing junior talent has been extremely poor.

All my comments are from observing and researching, and all I can say is that our lack of success is due to a multitude of factors, namely lack of finances (in comparison to other clubs), lack of credibility given the club's history & coaches (nepotism apparent), lack of resources & facilities, lack of quality coaching direction, lack of talent scouts etc etc etc. All this over the past 5-6 years since I have been following closely.

I don't know what the club is currently doing to set us on a better path except for lip service from the Interim CEO, just hope it's the start of a better future.

But I can't see us rivalling the Bulldogs, Roosters, Panthers, Eels until we get a large injection of financial support purely for pathways, an established pathways COE and greater coaching direction & support (which finances will aid).

I look at the Bulldogs with envy who have Laundy tipping in private $$$, Gould directing the ship with a know-how in pathways development, a dedicated academy program, specialist coaching support (i.e. specialist halves coaches) & even ex Bulldogs coaching the state U19 team (Josh Jackson I think).

It's just terrible for our whole club to have only 1 player selected for NSW U19 and 4 players across the 3 state school squads for the U18 nationals. Poorest year I can remember over the past 5-6 years in terms of representation.

I respect @balmain boy comments on this issue who doesn't sugar-coat it. Look at our players through the junior grades (now & past few years), we do not retain or recruit a lot of players with the physical or athletic attributes required for NRL. And rarely do we have players who are both physical (190cm+, 96kg+) & athletic types (fast, quick accelerator, good leg speed, aerial ability).

Hopefully now under Mielekamp (prior work by Richo) & Benji, this is changing. But to be honest, not much will change unless SIGNIFICANT money is injected into pathways from HBG, a sponsor or someone like Uncle Harry (or all of the above).

I’ve been ranting about this!
We are so far behind the Dogs, Parra, Roosters etc in this space & it will continue to set us back YEARS. Our junior recruitment & retention is absolutely dire. They need to hire experienced, quality people in these positions but the funding just isn’t there.

 

[Tom Shines]

I could write a 2,000 word essay on our pathways over recent years. It's hard to be concise but our pathways program has been nothing short of amateur in comparison to our rivals.

We have a catchment from the inner west out to the Macarthur yet our record identifying, retaining & developing junior talent has been extremely poor.

All my comments are from observing and researching, and all I can say is that our lack of success is due to a multitude of factors, namely lack of finances (in comparison to other clubs), lack of credibility given the club's history & coaches (nepotism apparent), lack of resources & facilities, lack of quality coaching direction, lack of talent scouts etc etc etc. All this over the past 5-6 years since I have been following closely.

I don't know what the club is currently doing to set us on a better path except for lip service from the Interim CEO, just hope it's the start of a better future.

But I can't see us rivalling the Bulldogs, Roosters, Panthers, Eels until we get a large injection of financial support purely for pathways, an established pathways COE and greater coaching direction & support (which finances will aid).

I look at the Bulldogs with envy who have Laundy tipping in private $$$, Gould directing the ship with a know-how in pathways development, a dedicated academy program, specialist coaching support (i.e. specialist halves coaches) & even ex Bulldogs coaching the state U19 team (Josh Jackson I think).

It's just terrible for our whole club to have only 1 player selected for NSW U19 and 4 players across the 3 state school squads for the U18 nationals. Poorest year I can remember over the past 5-6 years in terms of representation.

I respect @balmain boy comments on this issue who doesn't sugar-coat it. Look at our players through the junior grades (now & past few years), we do not retain or recruit a lot of players with the physical or athletic attributes required for NRL. And rarely do we have players who are both physical (190cm+, 96kg+) & athletic types (fast, quick accelerator, good leg speed, aerial ability).

Hopefully now under Mielekamp (prior work by Richo) & Benji, this is changing. But to be honest, not much will change unless SIGNIFICANT money is injected into pathways from HBG, a sponsor or someone like Uncle Harry (or all of the above).

Thanks for the lengthy reply…it’s rare that someone gets into this detail,,your last line is telling …because I don’t see the funds being made available under the current ownership …

I especially relate to your point about seemingly favouring smaller lesser athletic types lacking physicality … this to me is just a failing of common sense that money can’t really fix ..

We are up shit creek really of having any long lasting success… probably reduced to hoping for good luck a season here or there… and we’re on a long losing streak

 

[balmain boy]

What's especially sad, in our current set-up HBG don't even fund the Wests Magpies junior rep sides!!!! The actual teams running around with the Wests Magpies branding all (presumably) because they are based out of Campbelltown HBG have zero interest in them.

Wests Tigers funds our Wests Magpies junior rep sides.
Wests Ashfield funds the Balmain junior rep sides (it is their geographic area at least)
Wests MacArthur fund the Wests MacArthur sides.

How can the likes of @Vicious defend owners like that?

HBG do not care about footy. They care about Pokies at the leagues club and getting a free sausage sandwich at Lidcombe Oval as often as possible.

Wests Tigers don't have the revenue to cover junior rep sides but have to cover the void because no one else will. At least it gives us some control over our best juniors I guess.

 

[Chunk]

What's especially sad, in our current set-up HBG don't even fund the Wests Magpies junior rep sides!!!! The actual teams running around with the Wests Magpies branding all (presumably) because they are based out of Campbelltown HBG have zero interest in them.

Wests Tigers funds our Wests Magpies junior rep sides.
Wests Ashfield funds the Balmain junior rep sides (it is their geographic area at least)
Wests MacArthur fund the Wests MacArthur sides.

How can the likes of @Vicious defend owners like that?

HBG do not care about footy. They care about Pokies at the leagues club and getting a free sausage sandwich at Lidcombe Oval as often as possible.

Wests Tigers don't have the revenue to cover junior rep sides but have to cover the void because no one else will. At least it gives us some control over our best juniors I guess.

Yeah it doesn't seem right, does it.

Hopefully when Balmain Leagues club opens up, there might be some more cash injection into development and the football club in general.

Also, maybe when the Wests Tigers show more of a 'profit' HBG will be more willing to up their contribution...some business type of thinking?