A crucial period for Madge...

[happy_tiger]

Stuart with the Raiders took time. Brad Arthur at the Eels coached them to a wooden spoon two years ago. Robertson at the Roosters came 15th one year and supposedly he was under pressure until Cronk arrived and they landed two premierships.

Coaching instability is a killer and realistically there are no better candidates available.

Building the Tigers into a premiership force will take time. But maybe not as long as some think. We finished ahead of both Penrith and Newcastle last year and toweled them the second time we played them.

I'm skeptical about a wholesale clean-out. We have moved on players before only to see them perform very well at other clubs.

We have a core group of good players. Ideally we can make a few judicious signings at realistic prices.

A stable spine would really help. Maybe Reynolds. I'd like to see Madden given a go. Hopefully Liddle has an injury free run.

What would really help next year is if we can string some wins together to build confidence and momentum.

That is true when you have the right coach who can coach a side for 5-6 years

I just don't see Madge as that style of coach ....like Warren Ryan , Brian Smith they only have a few seasons of magic ..then it wears off

 

[Spud_Murphy]

Reality is we will have a rubbish team until our highest paid players move on:

2021:
Packer
Reynolds

2022:
Mbye

Don’t know why that is so difficult to understand. We have the same problem as the Titans and Bulldogs.

The only keeper IMO of those 3 is Packer.

I wouldn’t even keep Packer either.

 

[hobbo1]

Is it time that BJ got moved into the second row alongside his brother two strong running backrowers in the mould of Kikau

No.

I would
BJ is a trash defender at centre and a deadset ball hog ..
One of our worst signings so far .

 

[dazza65]

How long has Ricky been at the raiders? Only been a force the last 2years...

 

[AL The Tiger]

He can’t coach

His two premierships disagree

Anyone could of won with that Souths team then players turned on him which our players are now doing train hard play half asleep

You want to sack another coach and start all over again like we have been since 2012? Madge is clearly building for the future and isn't even into his 2nd full season yet. Give the guy some bloody time to work things through, results were never going to come fast.

 

[AL The Tiger]

Reality is we will have a rubbish team until our highest paid players move on:

2021:
Packer
Reynolds

2022:
Mbye

Don’t know why that is so difficult to understand. We have the same problem as the Titans and Bulldogs.

The only keeper IMO of those 3 is Packer.

I wouldn’t even keep Packer either.

Packer on a lessened contract would be sensible

 

[bigsiro]

Stuart with the Raiders took time. Brad Arthur at the Eels coached them to a wooden spoon two years ago. Robertson at the Roosters came 15th one year and supposedly he was under pressure until Cronk arrived and they landed two premierships.

Coaching instability is a killer and realistically there are no better candidates available.

Building the Tigers into a premiership force will take time. But maybe not as long as some think. We finished ahead of both Penrith and Newcastle last year and toweled them the second time we played them.

I'm skeptical about a wholesale clean-out. We have moved on players before only to see them perform very well at other clubs.

We have a core group of good players. Ideally we can make a few judicious signings at realistic prices.

A stable spine would really help. Maybe Reynolds. I'd like to see Madden given a go. Hopefully Liddle has an injury free run.

What would really help next year is if we can string some wins together to build confidence and momentum.

That is true when you have the right coach who can coach a side for 5-6 years

I just don't see Madge as that style of coach ....like Warren Ryan , Brian Smith they only have a few seasons of magic ..then it wears off

Never thought of Madge like that.
Regardless, his comments re his steadfast commitment to building this team into regular finals contenders doesn’t sound to me like he is in it for the short term.
Liverpool fc were nowhere near contenders 5 years ago. They had a bog average team.
Suddenly they got a coach who was determined to turn doubters into believers. Fans just needed patience and faith. They were rewarded.
And let me say that I am over being patient with the Tigers. It’s infuriating!
But I think Madge can do the same as Klopp.
Call me crazy but I really do.

 

[rustycage]

These conversations go around in circles. Those in the coaches corner and those that want to change because it's not working. I'm always in the coaches corner. The players need to shoulder the responsibility of heartless displays. They should be the ones to front the media. It's pretty rough on the coach. There's nothing he can say to explain things to media and fans. Unlike most coaches, at least this one has tried to hold under performers to account. But even that's not right now. Too many alterations to the side apparently. The alternative? To not make changes when players are under performing. Hmmmm which to choose...

 

[jirskyr]

Reality is we have beaten no one above us

Sharks

 

[TrueTiger]

I have said it before and I will say it again Benji and Brooks dont work....crucify me and get offended by what I say,but they have definately got problems between the ears ...Benji has been brilliant over the years and his time has come to retire,Brooks showed great potential but since Woods,Tedesco,Moses have left us he has been very ordinary,although I dont know how he earned the Dally M awards and has gone backwards so badly since..
Dont forget these guys are on big salaries and Brooks,BJ,and others make the same mistakes every week and dont seem to learn how to play Rugby League from the basic hold the ball,tackle,play the ball properly etc etc.
I could go on with much more but I will say MADGE cant go out there and play the game for them...

The players,the same offenders every week are to blame...they go out there and represent the WTs ..
and make the fundamentals of the game look like a genius IQ test that they cant fulfill...
Goes back to what Madge said a couple of weeks ago...

WITH THESE PLAYERS ITS IN THEIR HEADS.....

They need to toughen up mentally and have an understanding of the game...funny thing is the under 10s learn how to tackle,play the ball ,pass etc etc..and excell at it...

 

[hobbo1]

Reality is we have beaten no one above us

Sharks

They were below us when we won

 

[jirskyr]

All true…but Madge needs to step back and drop the rhetoric for a while and assess where we are.
The commander general speeches are great IF used appropriately. Keep them up your sleeve for when they will count. Right now, we need to accept we have not beaten anyone above it and most of them have given us a hiding. Write the season off and use it to experiment.

I find this post rather condescending and uninformed towards someone you almost certainly have never even met, and a playing group you certainly have never overseen.

For starters, rhetoric is very useful in this case. Rhetoric meaning persuasive argument or speech. The head coach absolutely needs to be persuasive as well as instructive. The head coach should be using any strategy at his disposal to get his team in the right head space and physical space. And don't mistake the external media- and fan-facing commentary to what's actually being said behind closed doors.

But having said that, I am not hearing classic rhetoric from Madge. I am hearing facts and honesty, said in a calm manner. I hear appeals for ball control, "turning up", increased energy, better performances, owning of performances. I wouldn't class any of that as untrue, excessively exaggerated or metaphorical, or without substance. It's not oration or grandstanding, he's the coach and he's saying the things everyone knows to be true.

I don't even know what you mean by a "commander general" speech - has Madge been doing this, you've heard him? When was this? Unless you personally have head coached a NRL team - no, even head coached any type of rep or higher-tier side - to assume to know what speeches to use and when, with a specific type of playing group.

I believe it is totally the wrong mentality to ever write-off a season or to experiment to the detriment of winning. There are still many rounds left, regardless of whether or not the finals are realistic; it's not going to be doing new or young players any good to just be thrown to the wolves under the assumption that the results don't matter any more. This team needs to continue to learn to fight for every match and every win, not just chuck the towel in for experimentation when the results don't fall.

 

[Tigerdave]

4th coach in 8 years...............I can't believe people want to change, again..........it's ludicrous.

 

[ElleryHanley]

All true…but Madge needs to step back and drop the rhetoric for a while and assess where we are.
The commander general speeches are great IF used appropriately. Keep them up your sleeve for when they will count. Right now, we need to accept we have not beaten anyone above it and most of them have given us a hiding. Write the season off and use it to experiment.

I find this post rather condescending and uninformed towards someone you almost certainly have never even met, and a playing group you certainly have never overseen.

For starters, rhetoric is very useful in this case. Rhetoric meaning persuasive argument or speech. The head coach absolutely needs to be persuasive as well as instructive. The head coach should be using any strategy at his disposal to get his team in the right head space and physical space. And don't mistake the external media- and fan-facing commentary to what's actually being said behind closed doors.

But having said that, I am not hearing classic rhetoric from Madge. I am hearing facts and honesty, said in a calm manner. I hear appeals for ball control, "turning up", increased energy, better performances, owning of performances. I wouldn't class any of that as untrue, excessively exaggerated or metaphorical, or without substance. It's not oration or grandstanding, he's the coach and he's saying the things everyone knows to be true.

I don't even know what you mean by a "commander general" speech - has Madge been doing this, you've heard him? When was this? Unless you personally have head coached a NRL team - no, even head coached any type of rep or higher-tier side - to assume to know what speeches to use and when, with a specific type of playing group.

I believe it is totally the wrong mentality to ever write-off a season or to experiment to the detriment of winning. There are still many rounds left, regardless of whether or not the finals are realistic; it's not going to be doing new or young players any good to just be thrown to the wolves under the assumption that the results don't matter any more. This team needs to continue to learn to fight for every match and every win, not just chuck the towel in for experimentation when the results don't fall.

Def not meant to be condescending...I may not have met Madge, but there is a decade plus of empirical evidence to judge his nature on. It is not hidden. He has openly said he has got one speed...full throttle. He was like that at Wigan...Souths...it is not exactly a secret. The man is intense.

We have all seen him burst blood vessels in the box and kick chairs...so I am not sure why you need to meet him to judge him.

And...none of this is a bad thing. Bellamy does it also.

All I am saying is that, with the personalities we have, it is clearly not working and thus stepping back may help. Melb vet their players before they are recruited...they want hard blokes, no nonsense, winners. The Bellamy sprays work.

We have a lot of very soft, non winners. Nice guys, but no real aggression bar Packer. It is a bad mix at the moment. It may help Madge long term with us to use the last few games to just assess who can do what / try some positional changes and keep the next big rev up for when the audience will be likely more receptive. Keep a few aces up his sleeve, so to speak.

Re writing off a season...teams do it in all sports, globally. They do it to prepare for the next one and use the games left to prepare long term.

Simple question...what serves us best in 2021? 6 more weeks of Brooks, Benji, Lawry and Mbye

**Or**

Giving as much time as we can to Liddle...finding out what Madden offers now...dropping those senior players now and shifting the leadership roles to younger guys in the team...give them a month and a half of accountability and tell them its their team. These are all things that will need to be done at some point...why not now?

 

[Harvey]

I am not sold on Madge. I can see that he will toughen a squad up, but that full throttle approach will only last so long before the players burn out.

I think the Souths team he won the comp with was based on the recruitment of John Lang, Madge just added the finishing touches (a hard edge) that brought a premiership. If you look at the best coaches and those with the longest careers, they are man managers that will develop players as footballers and people.

I am happy to give him an opportunity, he has not been here long and there has been a large turnover of players. I would not be looking at any extension longer than the end of 2022. This will give a better idea of his coaching ability as some of the young recruits we have should be making their mark in first grade by then. What sort of players does he turn them into?

I have seen nothing to suggest that he can build a roster or attract talent. Supporters will point out that this is the result of the amount of our cap being compromised by Ivan's signings.

I have not seen any significant improvement in player skills in his time here. I have not seen bad habits corrected.

I have rarely seen a smart game plan. Is this the coach or the players failure to execute? Look at the Knights last night. They targeted specific weaknesses like Mbye (why he made so many tackles), Benji and Nofa's wing.

Young player development has produced mixes results:
- 2018 dev players: Gibbs, Mikaele, McIntyre and Smith
- 2019 dev players: Seyfarth, Madden, Bradley and Talau.
Talau looks good, McIntyre has been a surprise once in 1st grade (showed little in CC), Mikaele has not developed as expected.

The one I am most concerned about is Seyfarth. A junior rep player through various age groups, big wraps on him. After a couple of first grade games has seemingly been cast aside. Was he one of those players who was a good junior based on size? Was he tossed in too early? What is he missing to be a long term NRL player and can this be coached?

Other dev players have not been sighted.

 

[jirskyr]

It’s hard to ignore really. You can throw Parra into that mix. Years of mediocrity, yet they were never seen as a dead end street for players. Yet for so many years, we’ve been in positions where only 2 or 3 good pick ups could put us over, but it never happens.

Parra aren't a bad example actually, but they are a fairly op-shop team. Nathan Brown, Shaun Lane, Gutherson, Waqa Blake, Michael Jennings, RCG, Kane Evans all surplus to their original team(s) and picked up on opportunity by Parra. And you wouldn't, at the time, have said that skinny winger from Manly would eventually be a mainstay of Eels at FB, nor that Shaun Lane would show any better form than any of his previous clubs, nor Michael Jennings finding a new lease on life as a veteran. Even RCG and Blake had the potential to be really disappointing purchases.

Any real superstar signings at Parra? I don't think so. Junior Paulo was a good one but he was theirs originally anyway and just bought him back. Mitch Moses turned out ok but he still has his shockers, they had to persist with him being ordinary for a long time, he still goes missing in key matches and personally I have no issue that he's left Tigers.

What Parra have managed to do is get the team all approx firing at the same time, with the arrival of some good juniors / scouting like Dylan Brown, Semi R, Sivo, Niukore. The coach was hammered for a long time, was potentially going to be sacked several times, and now is getting some results. Parra did not make the finals until Brad Arthur's 4th season in charge.

But let us not forget for a minute that Brad Arthur has had 7.5 seasons in charge and in that time made the finals twice, becoming 3 times this year, and two wooden spoons (though one was the year he took over from Kearney). Parra stuck with him and eventually he'd turned the roster, but it's taken over 2 contract periods to go from being a joke to a legitimate contender.

 

[jirskyr]

He can’t coach

His two premierships disagree

Anyone could of won with that Souths team then players turned on him which our players are now doing train hard play half asleep

The Souths team that he built? Yeah he won a premiership with them. Also won a premiership in Wigan their first in decades. He knows how to make a premiership winning team unfortunately it’s a lot harder and slower a process here than at other clubs

He did a great job at Souths but I’m not sure he built them. Burgess and Inglis we’re already there. Nice base to start from.

Souths were nearly there when he arrived. They just needed a push.

What rubbish. Souths haven't won squat before or after Madge.

 

[jirskyr]

Reality is we have beaten no one above us

Sharks

They were below us when we won

Ooh getting technical. I think you are just asking for me to go back and look for other examples. Were Dragons technically above us in Rd 1 because they start with D.

 

[hobbo1]

He can’t coach

His two premierships disagree

Anyone could of won with that Souths team then players turned on him which our players are now doing train hard play half asleep

The Souths team that he built? Yeah he won a premiership with them. Also won a premiership in Wigan their first in decades. He knows how to make a premiership winning team unfortunately it’s a lot harder and slower a process here than at other clubs

He did a great job at Souths but I’m not sure he built them. Burgess and Inglis we’re already there. Nice base to start from.

Souths were nearly there when he arrived. They just needed a push.

What rubbish. Souths haven't won squat before or after Madge.

Souths failed to make the 8 under Madges final 2 seasons with them .
GNR is correct

 

[hobbo1]

Reality is we have beaten no one above us

Sharks

They were below us when we won

Ooh getting technical. I think you are just asking for me to go back and look for other examples. Were Dragons technically above us in Rd 1 because they start with D.

No need to be narky cause you’ve been found out !
I’m just stating facts !