Are we an oridinary side or victims?

[jirskyr]

Culture has nothing to do with it. Culture is a convenient excuse for people not being able to cut it.

We can be successful just like other clubs. It's a simple formula. Get quality players that can consistently and get a coach who can give them a good game plan again on a consistent basis.

I don't think Taylor is the answer as our coach but maybe he can make it. I also think possibly Farah, Brooks and Moses are all not the right players to have in critical positions.

:unamused: Okay culture is meaningless. I'm not going to argue with you suffice to say that you are dismissing the knowledge promoted by basically every coach and team manager ever. Establishing good culture is a huge deal in any business.

Simplistic steve has a simple answer for everything…its so easy everyone does it, dont know why weve waited 16 years

Yeah steve reckons teams like Storm, Broncos, Cowboys don't have a winning culture right now.

What did Smith say in the presser - "we aren't playing well, but we are still 5 wins and 2 losses, so pleasing we can still find ways to win".

I tell you frankly Melbourne are not playing better football than us. They've played:
Dragons (12th) - win at home by 2 pts
Titans (9th) - win at home by 18 points
Warriors (10th) - win away by 7 points
Sharks (3rd) - loss away by 8 points
Knights (15th) - win at home by 4 points
Dogs (6th) - loss at home by 6 points
Today's game (we are 13th)

Melbourne have not beaten a Top 8 side and have played 5/7 games against bottom 8 sides. Their differential is +18\. But they are winning more of these close games. They have a culture of winning tight games, of making better decisions than us and it's getting them across the line,.

We have the opposite record 2-5\. We've played 3 Top 8 sides, and our losses have been by 12, 8, 8, 2, 1\. So we are not managing to get those close games across the line, even though the losses are shortening each week

But no, no culture involved there.

 

[fergiefurr]

To me we're a below average to average side who can turn it on and match the best occasionally. However we aren't a good enough side to miss key players or cop some real dud calls and win games.

You need to remember that st George made the finals last year and they were dead set terrible. An average side can make the semis with a bit of luck, we've had none this year.

 

[Russell]

The journos were trying to het JT to bite around some of those decisions. The quote was, "you are taking me somewhere I am not allowed to go". He should have gone there and gone hard. Simonas suspension, 2 balls on the field, the forward pass calls today. There has to be an investigation!!

I've asked this of a few posters over the past few weeks Harvey - if JT did go there, who is going to pay the $10,000 fine.

Are you going to pay it?

He and the club sure can't afford to pay it that is for sure.

 

[Russell]

That is a fair summary stevetiger. The coach has to go because he can't get the team to play to its potential.

That is just it Paws - I think the team is playing to its current ability. JT cannot get any more out of them at the moment.

They need to move up to a slightly higher level and they will.

 

[tig_prmz]

both really.

when chips are down and you're a crap team, you need some decisions that matter to go your way.

 

[Telltails]

How can you be a victim 6 weeks in a row?

It's like me being late for work 6 days in a row and each time I blame public transport. At some point I need to take responsibility.

Who is saying we've been dudded 6 weeks in a row?
We most certainly got the very raw end of the deal today when it came to crucial decisions.
We are an average side who often get our task of winning games made a hell of a lot harder by incompetent officials and their unfathomable decisions. And that stinks.

Agree the refereeing decisions had a major impact on the outcome of that game. Has a player ever been put on report without the opposing team being given a penalty, let alone the same player being awarded a try as a result of the initial illegal play. Absolute disgrace - and that was just one critical decision that went against us in a golden point game.

 

[stevied]

Both are true. Yes, refs give the weaker teams a harder time and we are no exception. Some of the calls last night were shockers. But we are also an ordinary side. Of course we are. We are inconsistent, have many young players and we have a roster with lots of holes. However, it's not all gloom and doom. A win is around the corner and it could lead to a string because we also have potential.

 

[Pawsandclaws]

Please don't blame the referees. We had our chances and weren't good enough. Our negative high ball under instruction was so predictable that we deserved to lose. The coach is not fine and has to go so we can get the best out of this side.

Negative high ball ??

The first two aimed at Koroibete he didn't even contest

Tell me this , why did they then after that attack the fullback time and time again and not attack Koroibete and the debutant winger

We didn't even find out whether he could handle a high ball

That is a player issue , not a coach issue

Happy, that's where we differ, the high ball is designed to allow our defence to set for the next six. It is a defensive play. I saw it contested twice yesterday by Addo Car and Moses. Usually we don't bother. The Storm varied their play and on one occasion nearly caught Tedesco out with the kick for Korobeite on the second or third tackle. We could have put Addo Car one on one with Korobeite and their fullback but didn't bother.

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

Please don't blame the referees. We had our chances and weren't good enough. Our negative high ball under instruction was so predictable that we deserved to lose. The coach is not fine and has to go so we can get the best out of this side.

Sorry, what's so negative about high balls?

Did we ever put them up when inside the 20? No, (when we did get to the kick), we put the ball along the ground or through the hands.

No, these "negative" high kicks are put up from 40m out. The whole point is to have them starting their set inside the 20m. The high hang time gives you the best chance of achieving that objective. It's called…..you know......playing tough and with discipline. It's a defensive kick yes, but what offensive kick/play are you thinking from the 40m line? Chip over the top, run the ball? They are 1% plays. I would rather the high percentage play of the high ball and pressure them with your defence

....and it works. We were down by 6 with 15 to play, the channel 9 commentators said we were now vulnerable. However, we grinded away with control and high kicks and sure enough, with 6 to go Storm came up with a mistake that led to the try in the corner.

 

[stevetiger]

But no, no culture involved there.

Correct. It's just good footy players with consistently good game plans and good execution. We just have to get these aspects of our game right.

Or it's all about culture like you want it to be and the players and the coach don't make a difference. Why not we just put together a bunch of guys on this forum and see how many games we win. I'll be the coach because I don't want to be the one getting smashed out there. The culture would be great. I want to win games. I assume most of you do as well.

I work in IT and I remember a project management coach asking us what would be successful - a good team and a shoddy PM approach or a bad team and a good PM approach. It's the good team every day.

 

[stevetiger]

That is a fair summary stevetiger. The coach has to go because he can't get the team to play to its potential.

That is just it Paws - I think the team is playing to its current ability. JT cannot get any more out of them at the moment.

They need to move up to a slightly higher level and they will.

This is the difficult area to determine. I think Taylor lost us games last year. That to me is unacceptable. I get the impression that Taylor though hasn't lost us games this year apart from picking a poor bench the last couple of weeks.

 

[kiwitiger]

We panic with the big plays. I take the refs out of this loss because even with their mistakes we should of won. 18 all we had two big chances to win in ET. We fluffed both. So while the refs made some interesting calls, at the end of the day our execution under pressure let us down. Because we should have won that, we had the better chances in ET, anything else is an excuse to me.

 

[tsjonathan]

I'm not sure what is wrong with Moses but ive seen him kick those field goals in the lower grades in his sleep.

 

[Gary_Bakerloo]

I'm not sure what is wrong with Moses but ive seen him kick those field goals in the lower grades in his sleep.

Pressure.

 

[jirskyr]

But no, no culture involved there.

Correct. It's just good footy players with consistently good game plans and good execution. We just have to get these aspects of our game right.

Or it's all about culture like you want it to be and the players and the coach don't make a difference. Why not we just put together a bunch of guys on this forum and see how many games we win. I'll be the coach because I don't want to be the one getting smashed out there. The culture would be great. I want to win games. I assume most of you do as well.

I work in IT and I remember a project management coach asking us what would be successful - a good team and a shoddy PM approach or a bad team and a good PM approach. It's the good team every day.

I'm gonna go the Jason Taylor route this morning and not say the things to you that are really in my head.

Players make the culture. Coach makes the culture. Culture does not exist without the people, it is a product of the people. Of course players and coach make a difference, that is the only way to make the culture - it's not some force field sitting at the training ground, waiting for people to come breath it in.

Yes, if you have the right people you can make a winning culture. Then you add new recruits and they add to and join that culture, and it can keep winning.

Similarly you can take away key elements and the culture changes.

What we are saying is even with great elements, the culture of a place might not be good. You can add the best player in the world to a bad setup and he/she won't turn it all around.

Culture does not mean good times or smiling faces. If we put together a forum team, the culture would be great for the pre-season, then terrible when we get our fat arses smashed every week.

And you'd be first to get hooked because you are our coach.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

We're an average team who lack the mental steel to overcome when they cop the rough end of a 50/50 call. Good teams overcome the whistle.

 

[happy_tiger]

Please don't blame the referees. We had our chances and weren't good enough. Our negative high ball under instruction was so predictable that we deserved to lose. The coach is not fine and has to go so we can get the best out of this side.

Negative high ball ??

The first two aimed at Koroibete he didn't even contest

Tell me this , why did they then after that attack the fullback time and time again and not attack Koroibete and the debutant winger

We didn't even find out whether he could handle a high ball

That is a player issue , not a coach issue

Happy, that's where we differ, the high ball is designed to allow our defence to set for the next six. It is a defensive play. I saw it contested twice yesterday by Addo Car and Moses. Usually we don't bother. The Storm varied their play and on one occasion nearly caught Tedesco out with the kick for Korobeite on the second or third tackle. We could have put Addo Car one on one with Korobeite and their fullback but didn't bother.

I wonder if you went back and watched the games that Koroibete has played v the Tigers how many bombs he has actually caught

I can remember watching a Friday Night game when the Storm towelled us up and the only time we bombed Koroibete he dropped it and we scored

He is a weakness under the high ball and we don't even know if the other bloke can diffuse them :brick:

Targeting the fullback was a complete waste of time

 

[Pawsandclaws]

This is the "tactic" every game, not just this game . It is negative, predictable and frankly boring. Yes I understand Korobeite may have had a weakness but I didn't think he played for every other team in the competition. :unamused:

 

[stevetiger]

But no, no culture involved there.

Correct. It's just good footy players with consistently good game plans and good execution. We just have to get these aspects of our game right.

Or it's all about culture like you want it to be and the players and the coach don't make a difference. Why not we just put together a bunch of guys on this forum and see how many games we win. I'll be the coach because I don't want to be the one getting smashed out there. The culture would be great. I want to win games. I assume most of you do as well.

I work in IT and I remember a project management coach asking us what would be successful - a good team and a shoddy PM approach or a bad team and a good PM approach. It's the good team every day.

I'm gonna go the Jason Taylor route this morning and not say the things to you that are really in my head.

Players make the culture. Coach makes the culture. Culture does not exist without the people, it is a product of the people. Of course players and coach make a difference, that is the only way to make the culture - it's not some force field sitting at the training ground, waiting for people to come breath it in.

Yes, if you have the right people you can make a winning culture. Then you add new recruits and they add to and join that culture, and it can keep winning.

Similarly you can take away key elements and the culture changes.

What we are saying is even with great elements, the culture of a place might not be good. You can add the best player in the world to a bad setup and he/she won't turn it all around.

Culture does not mean good times or smiling faces. If we put together a forum team, the culture would be great for the pre-season, then terrible when we get our fat arses smashed every week.

And you'd be first to get hooked because you are our coach.

This post makes as much sense as the culture argument.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

Please don't blame the referees. We had our chances and weren't good enough. Our negative high ball under instruction was so predictable that we deserved to lose. The coach is not fine and has to go so we can get the best out of this side.

Sorry, what's so negative about high balls?

Did we ever put them up when inside the 20? No, (when we did get to the kick), we put the ball along the ground or through the hands.

No, these "negative" high kicks are put up from 40m out. The whole point is to have them starting their set inside the 20m. The high hang time gives you the best chance of achieving that objective. It's called…..you know......playing tough and with discipline. It's a defensive kick yes, but what offensive kick/play are you thinking from the 40m line? Chip over the top, run the ball? They are 1% plays. I would rather the high percentage play of the high ball and pressure them with your defence

....and it works. We were down by 6 with 15 to play, the channel 9 commentators said we were now vulnerable. However, we grinded away with control and high kicks and sure enough, with 6 to go Storm came up with a mistake that led to the try in the corner.

The idea of these bombs to pin the opposition inside their own 20 is okay,but at least have some chasers screaming through at pace to put the bloke catching it under some sort of pressure. We are never within cooee of the bloke catching the ball so he has an effortless,easy catch followed by plenty of room to run after the catch or spread the ball wide.
Our kicks are negative ones because there is never a contest for the ball or any pressure on the ball catcher.