Becoming a development club

[frullens]

Gus Gould always says that the best clubs at the top of the ladder develop their own talent. And says the clubs at the bottom who try to buy their way up the ladder will never succeed.

Its fair to say that Wests Tigers have tried to buy their way out for a while without success. But it sounds like Madge is looking at developing better pathways for local players to WT.

I had a look at the 2021 squad so far to see how many players we have developed. While we have a lot of going players we are developing, only Brooks and Nofa have come locally through our systems. On the plus side the number of journeyman or ring ins are probably less than years gone by.

**Local WT product:**
Luke Brooks
David Nofoaluma

**Debut with WT:**
Jacob Liddle
Thomas Mikaele
Sam McIntyre (assumed resigned)
Tommy Talau
Reece Hoffman
Kane Bradley (yet to debut)
Zac Cini (yet to debut)
Jock Madden (yet to debut)
Jake Simpkin (yet to debut)

**Debut with WT but came from another club:**
Josh Aloiai (parra)
Shawn Blore (Penrith)
Luke Garner (manly)
Asu Kepaoa (easts)
Alex Twal (parra)

**Came to WT with less than 50 games:**
Michael chee kam (5 games at Manly)
Adam Doueihi (30 games at Souths)
Luciano Leilua (43 games at Dragons)
Zane Musgrove (27 games at souths)
Stefano Utoikamanu (3 games at parra)
Billy Walters (2 games at storm)

**Non-WT developed player:**
Joseph Leilua
Moses Mbye
Russell Packer
Josh Reynolds

 

[cochise]

Gus Gould always says that the best clubs at the top of the ladder develop their own talent. And says the clubs at the bottom who try to buy their way up the ladder will never succeed.

Its fair to say that Wests Tigers have tried to buy their way out for a while without success. But it sounds like Madge is looking at developing better pathways for local players to WT.

I had a look at the 2021 squad so far to see how many players we have developed. While we have a lot of going players we are developing, only Brooks and Nofa have come locally through our systems. On the plus side the number of journeyman or ring ins are probably less than years gone by.

**Local WT product:**
Luke Brooks
David Nofoaluma

**Debut with WT:**
Jacob Liddle
Thomas Mikaele
Sam McIntyre (assumed resigned)
Tommy Talau
Reece Hoffman
Kane Bradley (yet to debut)
Zac Cini (yet to debut)
Jock Madden (yet to debut)
Jake Simpkin (yet to debut)

**Debut with WT but came from another club:**
Josh Aloiai (parra)
Shawn Blore (Penrith)
Luke Garner (manly)
Asu Kepaoa (easts)
Alex Twal (parra)

**Came to WT with less than 50 games:**
Michael chee kam (5 games at Manly)
Adam Doueihi (30 games at Souths)
Luciano Leilua (43 games at Dragons)
Zane Musgrove (27 games at souths)
Stefano Utoikamanu (3 games at parra)
Billy Walters (2 games at storm)

**Non-WT developed player:**
Joseph Leilua
Moses Mbye
Russell Packer
Josh Reynolds

Might be beneficial to have a look at Wests Tigers juniors that are playing at other clubs.

 

[Guest]

We snagged some from under the Eels noses, Stefano, William Kei and Tyler Field were all rated highly.

 

[cochise]

Being a development club only works if you manage to hold onto the right ones and recently we have not been able to do that.

 

[Needaname]

Being a development club only works if you manage to hold onto the right ones and recently we have not been able to do that.

Still doesn’t mean that we aren’t a development club. Just means we need a fair bit of improvement in retention.

This is a good one for stats men.
What are the ratios of clubs keeping local talent and releasing local talent and which clubs have the highest current junior talent playing in the nrl in total.

Criteria has to be they were at least brought into the club as SGball recruits.

Currently in the NRL are the following local juniors, (been with the club since SGball and no longer playing for the Tigers.

Andrew Fifita
James Tedesco
Aaron Woods
Mitchell Moses
Junior Tatola
Tanela Paseka
Nathan Brown
Ryan Papenhuyzen
Bailey Sironen
Jeremy Marshall King
Moses Suli
Ray Stone

 

[cochise]

Being a development club only works if you manage to hold onto the right ones and recently we have not been able to do that.

Still doesn’t mean that we aren’t a development club. Just means we need a fair bit of improvement in retention.

This is a good one for stats men.
What are the ratios of clubs keeping local talent and releasing local talent and which clubs have the highest current junior talent playing in the nrl in total.

Criteria has to be they were at least brought into the club as SGball recruits.

Currently in the NRL are the following local juniors, (been with the club since SGball and no longer playing for the Tigers.

Andrew Fifita
James Tedesco
Aaron Woods
Mitchell Moses
Junior Tatola
Tanela Paseka
Nathan Brown
Ryan Papenhuyzen
Bailey Sironen
Jeremy Marshall King
Moses Suli
Ray Stone

I'm not saying we aren't a development club, I'm saying it hasn't worked for us.

 

[Strider]

The talent of our juniors we have lost would be a dominant force indeed.

 

[NT_Tiger]

Being a development club only works if you manage to hold onto the right ones and recently we have not been able to do that.

Still doesn’t mean that we aren’t a development club. Just means we need a fair bit of improvement in retention.

This is a good one for stats men.
What are the ratios of clubs keeping local talent and releasing local talent and which clubs have the highest current junior talent playing in the nrl in total.

Criteria has to be they were at least brought into the club as SGball recruits.

Currently in the NRL are the following local juniors, (been with the club since SGball and no longer playing for the Tigers.

Andrew Fifita
James Tedesco
Aaron Woods
Mitchell Moses
Junior Tatola
Tanela Paseka
Nathan Brown
Ryan Papenhuyzen
Bailey Sironen
Jeremy Marshall King
Moses Suli
Ray Stone

I'm not saying we aren't a development club, I'm saying it hasn't worked for us.

It looks like WT focus should be on its recruitment/retention staff.

 

[OzLuke]

If we don't win games then they aren't going to stay....

The phrase I hate the most is "I'm playing at x, y, z to win a grand final".....

Now is that down to players blaming others for their own failings? Or is it a broader failing of the club??

We win, our players stay.

 

[twentyforty]

Gus Gould always says that the best clubs at the top of the ladder develop their own talent. And says the clubs at the bottom who try to buy their way up the ladder will never succeed.

Tim Sheens always said that too. It must be common knowledge in all clubs.
It’s also a part of the Australian culture to be impatient for success. A coach doesn’t have much time to prove himself, and a player needs to go places very quickly. But the club has no such constraints and therefore should not allow this urgency to create panic. The club appears to lack the high level of continuity in management systems and goals which lead to success. The club may even lack the ability to identify its own shortcomings?
Difficult to say without a detailed review of systems and procedures, but you could be forgiven for thinking that we can’t retain our developing players and we can’t recruit recruit experienced with an acceptable level of success.

 

[frullens]

Tim Sheens always said that too. It must be common knowledge in all clubs.
It’s also a part of the Australian culture to be impatient for success. A coach doesn’t have much time to prove himself, and a player needs to go places very quickly.

Stability with coach or football director is really important in keeping the beat upcoming talent.

Storm - Bellamy/Frank
Roosters - Robinson
Parra - Arthur
Raiders - Sticky/Furner
Panthers - Gould

I no if your underperforming it's harder to stick with the coach and if your are performing it's easier to stick with the coach.

But raiders, parra and even Roosters have seen the bottom of the table during their reins.

We really need to lock in Madge and Hartigan for the longterm

 

[Magpie1969]

Didn't know Ray Stone was our junior. Rate him as a player. What is the hype with William Kei seems to be talked about by Forum Members. Please enlightened me

 

[Furious1]

If we don't win games then they aren't going to stay....

**The phrase I hate the most is "I'm playing at x, y, z to win a grand final".....**

Now is that down to players blaming others for their own failings? Or is it a broader failing of the club??

We win, our players stay.

Me too. At the end of the day the onus is on your top players to win you the games. You can't take all the coin like Teddy, Moses, Woods and Brooks and then blame everyone else for not winning. It's why we have a problem now with our top earners Reynolds,Packer and Mbye not being the type of players to win you games but taking up a significant part of the cap.

 

[twentyforty]

Tim Sheens always said that too. It must be common knowledge in all clubs.
It’s also a part of the Australian culture to be impatient for success. A coach doesn’t have much time to prove himself, and a player needs to go places very quickly.

Stability with coach or football director is really important in keeping the beat upcoming talent.

Storm - Bellamy/Frank
Roosters - Robinson
Parra - Arthur
Raiders - Sticky/Furner
Panthers - Gould

I no if your underperforming it's harder to stick with the coach and if your are performing it's easier to stick with the coach.

But raiders, parra and even Roosters have seen the bottom of the table during their reins.

We really need to lock in Madge and Hartigan for the longterm

I agree it’s easy to have continuity when you have long serving employees, coaches, admin etc. how often have we heard a ceo say words like “the club has decided to go in a different direction”? Of course we know that’s code for we’re getting a new coach and he is bringing in a new team and they’re going to rewrite the procedures manual. We’re throwing the baby out with the bath water..Why??? Imo this is what kills continuity and ultimately success.

Robinson was recently asked..”why are the chooks so successful?” “ Do you have any coaching tips you could pass onto struggling clubs?”
His reply was no great surprise but the way he delivered it was..as if he was being asked for the next letter in the alphabet after c. He eluded to getting administrative functions spot on, then success flows from that.

I have great admiration for the traditional continuity of something like Noah’s 10 commandments for example.
What if your club wrote something similar? A mission statement? Or whatever? Then never threw it out?

 

[weststigers]

Gus Gould always says that the best clubs at the top of the ladder develop their own talent. And says the clubs at the bottom who try to buy their way up the ladder will never succeed.


Tim Sheens always said that too. It must be common knowledge in all clubs.
It’s also a part of the Australian culture to be impatient for success. A coach doesn’t have much time to prove himself, and a player needs to go places very quickly. But the club has no such constraints and therefore should not allow this urgency to create panic. The club appears to lack the high level of continuity in management systems and goals which lead to success. The club may even lack the ability to identify its own shortcomings?
Difficult to say without a detailed review of systems and procedures, but you could be forgiven for thinking that we can’t retain our developing players and we can’t recruit recruit experienced with an acceptable level of success.

It's no accident that we had a plethora of junior talent coming through during and after Sheens.

 

[TYGA]

We’ve always been a very good development club and good and identifying other juniors before first grade. The biggest issue we had was neglecting the MacArthur region.

The major problem for the Tigers since Sheens has been Coaching and a club wheee players want to play. We couldn’t retain our players. Jason Taylor, Mick Potter then Ivan who dogged it. This is where the problems lie and most are underestimating the impact Madge will have. Irrespective of finals success it’s a club player will want to stay at and develop their games.

 

[JC99]

Didn't know Ray Stone was our junior. Rate him as a player. What is the hype with William Kei seems to be talked about by Forum Members. Please enlightened me

I don’t know if he was ever in our system. He’s a group 6 boy which technically means he’s our junior but I think he went straight into the eels system for under 20’s along with manly player Sean Keppie.

Group 6 is a great nursery of talent and majority of the decent players end up in the eels system instead of Tigers. The magpies SG ball is pretty poorly run apparently which doesn’t help.

 

[twentyforty]

Gus Gould always says that the best clubs at the top of the ladder develop their own talent. And says the clubs at the bottom who try to buy their way up the ladder will never succeed.


Tim Sheens always said that too. It must be common knowledge in all clubs.
It’s also a part of the Australian culture to be impatient for success. A coach doesn’t have much time to prove himself, and a player needs to go places very quickly. But the club has no such constraints and therefore should not allow this urgency to create panic. The club appears to lack the high level of continuity in management systems and goals which lead to success. The club may even lack the ability to identify its own shortcomings?
Difficult to say without a detailed review of systems and procedures, but you could be forgiven for thinking that we can’t retain our developing players and we can’t recruit recruit experienced with an acceptable level of success.

It's no accident that we had a plethora of junior talent coming through during and after Sheens.

Yes, it must have been extremely disappointing for fans to see the likes of Woods, Moses, Tedesco, Brooks and others winning games and developing skills, thinking if we can keep the bulk of this group together, one day these guys will hoist the Provan/Summons trophy. But then came a couple of dum announcements. The club has decided to go in a different direction. 🙁

 

[twentyforty]

We’ve always been a very good development club and good and identifying other juniors before first grade. The biggest issue we had was neglecting the MacArthur region.

The major problem for the Tigers since Sheens has been Coaching and a club wheee players want to play. We couldn’t retain our players. Jason Taylor, Mick Potter then Ivan who dogged it. This is where the problems lie and most are underestimating the impact Madge will have. Irrespective of finals success it’s a club player will want to stay at and develop their games.

I don’t think it’s a good idea to bring up post Sheens coaches, it makes the club administration look incompetent.
I don’t know what Potter has done since leaving, but Taylor has enjoyed 2 GF wins and Cleary’s team is top of the ladder.
I can say they’ve done something right, hire Madge.

 

[Wagga_Tiger]

Didn't know Ray Stone was our junior. Rate him as a player. What is the hype with William Kei seems to be talked about by Forum Members. Please enlightened me

I don’t know if he was ever in our system. He’s a group 6 boy which technically means he’s our junior but I think he went straight into the eels system for under 20’s along with manly player Sean Keppie.

Group 6 is a great nursery of talent and majority of the decent players end up in the eels system instead of Tigers. The magpies SG ball is pretty poorly run apparently which doesn’t help.

Stone played U’20s for the Tigers, he was talked up a bit but never made his way past 20s. I think he had a lot of hair when he played 20s.