Berlin

[TCL]

the defining terror attack of this all actually started before the Iraq war. So did the Bali bombings. But probably we are to blame for those too…

It actually scares me at the level of complacency by the western world. We seem to blame ourselves most of the time and have lost our hearts for our own. Our patriotism is weak. Instead we somehow think that we deserve someone to open fire in a nightclub or drive a truck through women and children.

The thing is that the western world has tried to provide the global security for the better part of half a century. Sometimes we get it wrong, but the causation is usually founded in decent intentions. We try to avoid innocents, we help rebuild, fund and work with communities.

Our own blame game when these people are killed is somewhat sickening to me. I can guarentee ISIL aren't comparatively sitting back and cursing Osama bin laden for ramming jets into the USA.

We don't have a foundation policy to kill innocents in cold blood. That's the difference to me.

We are not the blame but we are part of the problem. The terrorists are the blame for their acts. Let's have no argument about that. The actions of those vile lowies is in no way acceptable and in no way our fault.

Our meddling in the Middle East goes way back before the Iraq war a and Bali bombings. We have not tried to help the Middle East we have when it worked appeared to help the Middle East while in effect helping our selves. Yes the Red Cross and Doctors Without Borders have over the years provided help. But it was always humanitarian assistance, very little was government assistance.

You give a homeless, man in the city a gun when his hungry, he ain't going to dig a whole in the ground and plant carrots, his going to point it at a passer by and demand money or food.

We talk about respect for our way of life and culture, we send a plane loads of Turists to Bali every year, do the majority of those visiting act with respect for their way of life or culture. Our behaviour was so bad our own TV's made a show of it.

When I lived in London for 2 years I spent my time living, drinking and eating with other Aussies funny that, although I was in England the motherland a place where our culture was born out of I wanted to be with other Aussies.

We are not to blame for the Middle East but we have contributed to the problem.

I see no difference between a terrorist and a dealer selling Ice or Herron. Both destroy innocent people and their families. I'm sure only a small minority on this forum have been directly impacted by terrorism and we have an issue with Muslims. I would guess that more on this forum have been impacted by a drug related crime yet we don't see a thread about that nor do we see any hatred towards our own culture which in is also a contributor to the drug problem.

Over 3500 people died from just alchole related deaths in Australia this year, 0 according to my research died in Australia as a result of terrorism in 2016\. Do we hate Tooheys Castlemaine or Penfolds?

The religion doesn't have a foundation policy to kill innocents. Isis does.

Many have died in the name of God, and for a long long time the killing of innocents was committed by the Church, in fact the church even specifically target woman, they called them witches and burned them at the stake.

I am a bit lost by this arguement, if you give a homeless man a gun, no-one is giving him a gun, they are inviting him and his family into our house, feeding and supporting them, only to wake up and find your family have been killed while sleeping. As for the number of deaths in the middle east, how many have been inflicted by the west against those that have been inflicted by locals based on which sect of a religion they belong to or the tribe that they descend from. The Iran vs Iraq war killed hundreds of thousands with the wests only involvement being profiteering through selling weapons to various ideologies that were hell bent on killing each other.

Australians might behave like d!ckheads in bali, but would they get away with organising protests in Saudi Arabia that pushed the same agenda as last nights protest in Lakemba.

I have no problem with immigration from any country to any country, but you need to understand the culture of the country you move to and accept it, rather than expecting that country to change to align with your belief system.

PS Merry Christmas to all, regardless of whether you celebrate it based on religion, or just a chance to get together with friends & loved ones and enjoy the time of year.

Well said Harvey.
I am dumbfounded that someone compares a drunken Aussie tourist in Bali having a whizz in the bushes or a shag on the beach with faceless terrorist cowards who plough trucks into crowds of people, including children.
As you say, if someone organized a rally anywhere in the Middle East practically denouncing their way of life then you would disappear off the face of the earth quick-smart, you would be executed or spend the rest of your days rotting away in a mangy prison suffering constant various forms of torture and interrogation.
The PC crowd with the softly-softly approach within Australia will unfortunately send many innocent people to their deaths in the not too distant future…...it is only a matter of time before our country is on the end of a Berlin or Paris-like atrocity.

FTB you are 100% correct it is dumbfounding that a comparison is made between bogans acting badly in another country, to a terrorist. Almost as dumbfounding as comparing a hard working, law-abiding muslim to one, wouldn't you say?

But i wasn't comparing them to terrorist, that was a reference to not behaving accordingly when in a foreign country. And your a bit light on some of the bad behaviour over there.

Why is it a PC crowd softy softly when someone points out that not all muslims are terrorist and not blatant bigotry and racism when some call all muslims terrorist?

As I said before, if there is a group of people wanting to create a divide in our country then our authorities should deal with them accordingly.

But I'm not sure that shutting people out and oppressing them is going to prevent such an incident, god forbid.

An attack was carried out by a person on a group in Canberra this morning. It was a van full of gas cylinders. Not a muslim in sight. Is this not terrorism?

 

[magpiecol]

We are not the blame but we are part of the problem. The terrorists are the blame for their acts. Let's have no argument about that. The actions of those vile lowies is in no way acceptable and in no way our fault.

Our meddling in the Middle East goes way back before the Iraq war a and Bali bombings. We have not tried to help the Middle East we have when it worked appeared to help the Middle East while in effect helping our selves. Yes the Red Cross and Doctors Without Borders have over the years provided help. But it was always humanitarian assistance, very little was government assistance.

You give a homeless, man in the city a gun when his hungry, he ain't going to dig a whole in the ground and plant carrots, his going to point it at a passer by and demand money or food.

We talk about respect for our way of life and culture, we send a plane loads of Turists to Bali every year, do the majority of those visiting act with respect for their way of life or culture. Our behaviour was so bad our own TV's made a show of it.

When I lived in London for 2 years I spent my time living, drinking and eating with other Aussies funny that, although I was in England the motherland a place where our culture was born out of I wanted to be with other Aussies.

We are not to blame for the Middle East but we have contributed to the problem.

I see no difference between a terrorist and a dealer selling Ice or Herron. Both destroy innocent people and their families. I'm sure only a small minority on this forum have been directly impacted by terrorism and we have an issue with Muslims. I would guess that more on this forum have been impacted by a drug related crime yet we don't see a thread about that nor do we see any hatred towards our own culture which in is also a contributor to the drug problem.

Over 3500 people died from just alchole related deaths in Australia this year, 0 according to my research died in Australia as a result of terrorism in 2016\. Do we hate Tooheys Castlemaine or Penfolds?

The religion doesn't have a foundation policy to kill innocents. Isis does.

Many have died in the name of God, and for a long long time the killing of innocents was committed by the Church, in fact the church even specifically target woman, they called them witches and burned them at the stake.

I am a bit lost by this arguement, if you give a homeless man a gun, no-one is giving him a gun, they are inviting him and his family into our house, feeding and supporting them, only to wake up and find your family have been killed while sleeping. As for the number of deaths in the middle east, how many have been inflicted by the west against those that have been inflicted by locals based on which sect of a religion they belong to or the tribe that they descend from. The Iran vs Iraq war killed hundreds of thousands with the wests only involvement being profiteering through selling weapons to various ideologies that were hell bent on killing each other.

Australians might behave like d!ckheads in bali, but would they get away with organising protests in Saudi Arabia that pushed the same agenda as last nights protest in Lakemba.

I have no problem with immigration from any country to any country, but you need to understand the culture of the country you move to and accept it, rather than expecting that country to change to align with your belief system.

PS Merry Christmas to all, regardless of whether you celebrate it based on religion, or just a chance to get together with friends & loved ones and enjoy the time of year.

Well said Harvey.
I am dumbfounded that someone compares a drunken Aussie tourist in Bali having a whizz in the bushes or a shag on the beach with faceless terrorist cowards who plough trucks into crowds of people, including children.
As you say, if someone organized a rally anywhere in the Middle East practically denouncing their way of life then you would disappear off the face of the earth quick-smart, you would be executed or spend the rest of your days rotting away in a mangy prison suffering constant various forms of torture and interrogation.
The PC crowd with the softly-softly approach within Australia will unfortunately send many innocent people to their deaths in the not too distant future…...it is only a matter of time before our country is on the end of a Berlin or Paris-like atrocity.

FTB you are 100% correct it is dumbfounding that a comparison is made between bogans acting badly in another country, to a terrorist. Almost as dumbfounding as comparing a hard working, law-abiding muslim to one, wouldn't you say?

But i wasn't comparing them to terrorist, that was a reference to not behaving accordingly when in a foreign country. And your a bit light on some of the bad behaviour over there.

Why is it a PC crowd softy softly when someone points out that not all muslims are terrorist and not blatant bigotry and racism when some call all muslims terrorist?

As I said before, if there is a group of people wanting to create a divide in our country then our authorities should deal with them accordingly.

But I'm not sure that shutting people out and oppressing them is going to prevent such an incident, god forbid.

An attack was carried out by a person on a group in Canberra this morning. It was a van full of gas cylinders. Not a muslim in sight. Is this not terrorism?

I don't know how old you are, but you need to grow up.

Your head, and those of your loved ones will come off as easily as the ones already removed.

 

[stryker]

Tigercomelately, its not about shutting them out and oppressing them. Its about finding out who they are before letting them in. Open boarders policies are strangling Europe, not just through these terror acts but through the immense clash of cultures, and ideaologies as well as organised crime.
You obviously know some great muslim families over here as do most of us but ill tell you now, they are totally different from those who are still over there. Those people have lived their lives under a different world view to ours and what is happening in Europe will happen here as well eventually.

 

[TCL]

I am a bit lost by this arguement, if you give a homeless man a gun, no-one is giving him a gun, they are inviting him and his family into our house, feeding and supporting them, only to wake up and find your family have been killed while sleeping. As for the number of deaths in the middle east, how many have been inflicted by the west against those that have been inflicted by locals based on which sect of a religion they belong to or the tribe that they descend from. The Iran vs Iraq war killed hundreds of thousands with the wests only involvement being profiteering through selling weapons to various ideologies that were hell bent on killing each other.

Australians might behave like d!ckheads in bali, but would they get away with organising protests in Saudi Arabia that pushed the same agenda as last nights protest in Lakemba.

I have no problem with immigration from any country to any country, but you need to understand the culture of the country you move to and accept it, rather than expecting that country to change to align with your belief system.

PS Merry Christmas to all, regardless of whether you celebrate it based on religion, or just a chance to get together with friends & loved ones and enjoy the time of year.

Well said Harvey.
I am dumbfounded that someone compares a drunken Aussie tourist in Bali having a whizz in the bushes or a shag on the beach with faceless terrorist cowards who plough trucks into crowds of people, including children.
As you say, if someone organized a rally anywhere in the Middle East practically denouncing their way of life then you would disappear off the face of the earth quick-smart, you would be executed or spend the rest of your days rotting away in a mangy prison suffering constant various forms of torture and interrogation.
The PC crowd with the softly-softly approach within Australia will unfortunately send many innocent people to their deaths in the not too distant future…...it is only a matter of time before our country is on the end of a Berlin or Paris-like atrocity.

FTB you are 100% correct it is dumbfounding that a comparison is made between bogans acting badly in another country, to a terrorist. Almost as dumbfounding as comparing a hard working, law-abiding muslim to one, wouldn't you say?

But i wasn't comparing them to terrorist, that was a reference to not behaving accordingly when in a foreign country. And your a bit light on some of the bad behaviour over there.

Why is it a PC crowd softy softly when someone points out that not all muslims are terrorist and not blatant bigotry and racism when some call all muslims terrorist?

As I said before, if there is a group of people wanting to create a divide in our country then our authorities should deal with them accordingly.

But I'm not sure that shutting people out and oppressing them is going to prevent such an incident, god forbid.

An attack was carried out by a person on a group in Canberra this morning. It was a van full of gas cylinders. Not a muslim in sight. Is this not terrorism?

I don't know how old you are, but you need to grow up.

Your head, and those of your loved ones will come off as easily as the ones already removed.

Not sure I understand your second comment?

I've done my growing, I wear big boy pants and all, I thought we were having a discussion. I'm not asking anyone to change or think differently I'm just expressing opinion and discussing. That's what grown ups do.

If I choose to see the good in people and that makes me immature, then I can live with that.

 

[TCL]

Tigercomelately, its not about shutting them out and oppressing them. Its about finding out who they are before letting them in. Open boarders policies are strangling Europe, not just through these terror acts but through the immense clash of cultures, and ideaologies as well as organised crime.
You obviously know some great muslim families over here as do most of us but ill tell you now, they are totally different from those who are still over there. Those people have lived their lives under a different world view to ours and what is happening in Europe will happen here as well eventually.

Absaloutly we need to know who they are before we let anyone in and open boarders doesn't appear to be working I didn't think it would. I never said anything to the contrary.

Agree I do know some wonderful people who happen to be Muslim.

And I know those over there are different because they live under hard conditions.

I think those that commit these acts or are planning them should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Odds are unfortunately it may happen. We all hope it doesn't.

All Im saying is not all Muslim are terrorist and they shouldn't be tarred with the same brush.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

There is a stereotype when it comes to 'border security', especially when comparing European Borders with those of Australia.

Australia, due to its remoteness has very good practises in place which allow Australia to do screening at a more efficient level. The European countries have many borders and many more people in transit. The ideology of 'not letting them in' is impossible to achieve and is nothing more than hysteria being played out.

I read alot of the comments referring to Us & Them. Sadly, history will show us that the moment we adopt this mental segregation of humans, we are building the foundations for division and isolation. The moment we divide a race/religion we open the door to the politics taking over. We open the door to extreme interpretation of ones beliefs and the isolation grows.

Isolation creates fear, fear creates hate… Its not the religion that creates terrorism, its the politics!

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Tigercomelately, its not about shutting them out and oppressing them. Its about finding out who they are before letting them in. Open boarders policies are strangling Europe, not just through these terror acts but through the immense clash of cultures, and ideaologies as well as organised crime.
You obviously know some great muslim families over here as do most of us but ill tell you now, they are totally different from those who are still over there. Those people have lived their lives under a different world view to ours and what is happening in Europe will happen here as well eventually.

Absaloutly we need to know who they are before we let anyone in and open boarders doesn't appear to be working I didn't think it would. I never said anything to the contrary.

Agree I do know some wonderful people who happen to be Muslim.

And I know those over there are different because they live under hard conditions.

I think those that commit these acts or are planning them should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Odds are unfortunately it may happen. We all hope it doesn't.

All Im saying is not all Muslim are terrorist and they shouldn't be tarred with the same brush.

So the really big question remains.
Exactly how do we really know which ones are the "good" Muslims, and who is the "Bad"
Bastards.??????
In most cases it's impossible to tell. Until they load a truck with explosives and drive through a pedestrian Mall somewhere. But, somehow I don't think that's a great way to find out.
That's the reason that a lot of people want to stop bringing more here until they can sort out the ones that are already here. Sounds like sense to me
But then, it couldn't happen here, could it??
I would've though that the "good" Muslims that are here would want the rubbish removed as much as we do.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Tigercomelately, its not about shutting them out and oppressing them. Its about finding out who they are before letting them in. Open boarders policies are strangling Europe, not just through these terror acts but through the immense clash of cultures, and ideaologies as well as organised crime.
You obviously know some great muslim families over here as do most of us but ill tell you now, they are totally different from those who are still over there. Those people have lived their lives under a different world view to ours and what is happening in Europe will happen here as well eventually.

Absaloutly we need to know who they are before we let anyone in and open boarders doesn't appear to be working I didn't think it would. I never said anything to the contrary.

Agree I do know some wonderful people who happen to be Muslim.

And I know those over there are different because they live under hard conditions.

I think those that commit these acts or are planning them should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Odds are unfortunately it may happen. We all hope it doesn't.

All Im saying is not all Muslim are terrorist and they shouldn't be tarred with the same brush.

So the really big question remains.
**Exactly how do we really know which ones are the "good" Muslims, and who is the "Bad"
Bastards.??????**
In most cases it's impossible to tell. Until they load a truck with explosives and drive through a pedestrian Mall somewhere. But, somehow I don't think that's a great way to find out.
That's the reason that a lot of people want to stop bringing more here until they can sort out the ones that are already here. Sounds like sense to me
But then, it couldn't happen here, could it??
I would've though that the "good" Muslims that are here would want the rubbish removed as much as we do.

'We' dont…The local police and authorities are doing that job, no different from when they did it against the good/bad Chinese & Neo Nazi extremists in Australia. In many incidents from these type of groups, "its impossible to tell".

If Australia wants to remain free from such devastating activity, we need to create a better understanding of the Muslim religion within the wider community. Telling them to 'shove off' is only going to isolate them further and create a stronger resolve.

They aint going anywhere!

 

[GNR4LIFE]

One thing i don't like is when it's expected Muslims should denounce acts of terror when it's one of their fellow Muslims. Yet when a radical Christian goes and shoots up an abortion clinic because it goes against God, it's just a lone nut. No mention of terrorism, let alone the expectation that Priests and Bishops should come out and condemn the act.

 

[Masterton]

Isolation creates fear, fear creates hate… Its not the religion that creates terrorism, its the politics!

It's natural for people to be fearful when they see terrible incidents happening, but you don't have to read many history books to know isolationism and hatred are not the answer. Those chickens will come home to roost.

Unfortunately, there is no answer. Any "simple solutions" like shutting borders or revenge killings are doomed to fail. And selective immigration won't weed out every nutbag. We live in an age when you can have the ingredients for a bomb delivered to your door. And we all know there are hateful ****s out there that prey on the very weak or mentally impaired.

Anyways, enough ranting from me. I just wish everyone a safe and happy Christmas.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Tigercomelately, its not about shutting them out and oppressing them. Its about finding out who they are before letting them in. Open boarders policies are strangling Europe, not just through these terror acts but through the immense clash of cultures, and ideaologies as well as organised crime.
You obviously know some great muslim families over here as do most of us but ill tell you now, they are totally different from those who are still over there. Those people have lived their lives under a different world view to ours and what is happening in Europe will happen here as well eventually.

Absaloutly we need to know who they are before we let anyone in and open boarders doesn't appear to be working I didn't think it would. I never said anything to the contrary.

Agree I do know some wonderful people who happen to be Muslim.

And I know those over there are different because they live under hard conditions.

I think those that commit these acts or are planning them should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Odds are unfortunately it may happen. We all hope it doesn't.

All Im saying is not all Muslim are terrorist and they shouldn't be tarred with the same brush.

So the really big question remains.
**Exactly how do we really know which ones are the "good" Muslims, and who is the "Bad"
Bastards.??????**
In most cases it's impossible to tell. Until they load a truck with explosives and drive through a pedestrian Mall somewhere. But, somehow I don't think that's a great way to find out.
That's the reason that a lot of people want to stop bringing more here until they can sort out the ones that are already here. Sounds like sense to me
But then, it couldn't happen here, could it??
I would've though that the "good" Muslims that are here would want the rubbish removed as much as we do.

'We' dont…The local police and authorities are doing that job, no different from when they did it against the good/bad Chinese & Neo Nazi extremists in Australia. In many incidents from these type of groups, "its impossible to tell".

If Australia wants to remain free from such devastating activity, we need to create a better understanding of the Muslim religion within the wider community. Telling them to 'shove off' is only going to isolate them further and create a stronger resolve.

They aint going anywhere!

We hear a lot about what WE need to do better and have a better understanding of.
We've done just about everything to understand them, a lot of people have
Made it theirlife goal to absolve them from any blame for what goes on in the name of their religion.
Just maybe, they should be making more of an effort to understand Us and our way of life, after all in most cases we have given them a safer country to live in and raise their families
I think it's time that more of them assist in keeping this country as safe as possible. It would help if their code of silence went West for a start.
As far as I know, We ain't going anywhere either

 

[Newtown]

10:44am December 23, 2016
'These criminals seek to kill': Seven arrested over alleged Christmas Day terror plot in Melbourne
By 9NEWS

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has urged Australians not to let alleged terrorists succeed in frightening and dividing the nation, after Victoria Police and Australian Federal Police foiled a proposed Christmas Day terrorist attack.

“It has been thwarted. Thwarting the attack, an Islamist terrorist plot inspired by Daesh or ISIL… speaks volumes for the professionalism of our police agencies,” Mr Turnbull said at a press conference in Sydney. “What these criminals seek to do is kill. But also, to frighten us and to make us abandon our Australian way of life. We will not let them succeed. “We will continue to go about our daily lives as we always have.”

The prime minister’s message comes after heavily armed police raided homes across Melbourne’s north-west overnight and this morning, arresting seven people who allegedly planned an attack on Flinders Street Station and Federation Square on Christmas Day.

Chief Commissioner Graham Ashton said police had been watching the alleged plotters for some time, and believed they were preparing a multi-mode attack. "Over that last fortnight that has accelerated," Mr Ashton said.

Victoria police and Premier Daniel Andrews said a Christmas terror threat in Melbourne has been ‘neutralised’ following raids across the city’s north-western suburbs. Police believed the threat had been neutralised through the raids, he said. Premier Daniel Andrews said there will be extra police on the streets on Christmas Day to ensure the public feel safe. "(These alleged planned attacks) were not acts of faith - they were in their planning, acts of evil," Mr Andrews said.

Mr Ashton said police believe the plotters planned to use an explosion and other weapons in the attack.
"We believe it was certainly going to involve an explosive event," Mr Ashton said. Seven people were arrested in total. Four of them were born in Australia, while a fifth is an Egyptian-born Australian citizen.

A 24-year-old man from Meadow Heights, a 26-year-old man from Dallas, a 22-year-old man from Campbellfield, and two 21-year-old men from Flemington and Gladstone Park respectively remain in police custody. A 20-year-old woman and a 26-year-old man, both from Meadow Heights, have been released without charge. "These are self-radicalised… (but they were) inspired by ISIS and ISIS propaganda," Mr Ashton said. "If this had got under our guard this would have been a significant attack."
\
\
Five properties in Gladstone Park, Flemington, Meadow Heights, Dallas and Campbellfield were raided, including this apartment building in Flemington. (9NEWS)

Homes were raided in Flemington, Meadow Heights and Dallas as part of the operation involving Victoria Police, the Australian Federal Police and ASIO. Mr Ashton said police had gathered evidence in the raids that the plotters were planning to use explosives in their attack.

"We gathered the makings of an improvised explosive device," Mr Ashton said. "A substantial number of people could have been injured in the attack, from what we've seen. "Certainly potential for quite a number of people to be injured or killed in this attack." About 400 police officers were involved in the raids, which started late last night. "In relation to this particular plot we think we've got everyone who was involved," Mr Ashton said.

Mr Andrews said people should go about their business safe in the knowledge that Victoria Police is protecting them."What was being planned was not an act of faith, was not an act of religious observance, it was instead in its planning, an act of evil, a criminal act," he said. The community should continue to go about their daily business and report any suspicious activity to triple zero (000), Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or the National Security Hotline on 1800 1234 00.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Malcolm urges us not to let ourselves get divided then proceeds to talk in an us v them manner calling them an Islamist group. Which i am sure they are, but if a Christian group had a terror plot thwarted would we label them as a Christian group? There is a stigma regarding Muslims and Islam that people can't help but separate from the rest of society in a way that they wouldn't if it were Christians. Religion wouldn't even be mentioned then.

 

[magpiecol]

10:44am December 23, 2016
'These criminals seek to kill': Seven arrested over alleged Christmas Day terror plot in Melbourne
By 9NEWS

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull has urged Australians not to let alleged terrorists succeed in frightening and dividing the nation, after Victoria Police and Australian Federal Police foiled a proposed Christmas Day terrorist attack.

“It has been thwarted. Thwarting the attack, an Islamist terrorist plot inspired by Daesh or ISIL… speaks volumes for the professionalism of our police agencies,” Mr Turnbull said at a press conference in Sydney. “What these criminals seek to do is kill. But also, to frighten us and to make us abandon our Australian way of life. We will not let them succeed. “We will continue to go about our daily lives as we always have.”

The prime minister’s message comes after heavily armed police raided homes across Melbourne’s north-west overnight and this morning, arresting seven people who allegedly planned an attack on Flinders Street Station and Federation Square on Christmas Day.

Chief Commissioner Graham Ashton said police had been watching the alleged plotters for some time, and believed they were preparing a multi-mode attack. "Over that last fortnight that has accelerated," Mr Ashton said.

Victoria police and Premier Daniel Andrews said a Christmas terror threat in Melbourne has been ‘neutralised’ following raids across the city’s north-western suburbs. Police believed the threat had been neutralised through the raids, he said. Premier Daniel Andrews said there will be extra police on the streets on Christmas Day to ensure the public feel safe. "(These alleged planned attacks) were not acts of faith - they were in their planning, acts of evil," Mr Andrews said.

Mr Ashton said police believe the plotters planned to use an explosion and other weapons in the attack.
"We believe it was certainly going to involve an explosive event," Mr Ashton said. Seven people were arrested in total. Four of them were born in Australia, while a fifth is an Egyptian-born Australian citizen.

A 24-year-old man from Meadow Heights, a 26-year-old man from Dallas, a 22-year-old man from Campbellfield, and two 21-year-old men from Flemington and Gladstone Park respectively remain in police custody. A 20-year-old woman and a 26-year-old man, both from Meadow Heights, have been released without charge. "These are self-radicalised… (but they were) inspired by ISIS and ISIS propaganda," Mr Ashton said. "If this had got under our guard this would have been a significant attack."
\
\
Five properties in Gladstone Park, Flemington, Meadow Heights, Dallas and Campbellfield were raided, including this apartment building in Flemington. (9NEWS)

Homes were raided in Flemington, Meadow Heights and Dallas as part of the operation involving Victoria Police, the Australian Federal Police and ASIO. Mr Ashton said police had gathered evidence in the raids that the plotters were planning to use explosives in their attack.

"We gathered the makings of an improvised explosive device," Mr Ashton said. "A substantial number of people could have been injured in the attack, from what we've seen. "Certainly potential for quite a number of people to be injured or killed in this attack." About 400 police officers were involved in the raids, which started late last night. "In relation to this particular plot we think we've got everyone who was involved," Mr Ashton said.

Mr Andrews said people should go about their business safe in the knowledge that Victoria Police is protecting them."What was being planned was not an act of faith, was not an act of religious observance, it was instead in its planning, an act of evil, a criminal act," he said. The community should continue to go about their daily business and report any suspicious activity to triple zero (000), Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or the National Security Hotline on 1800 1234 00.

If only we had given them a job.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Malcolm urges us not to let ourselves get divided then proceeds to talk in an us v them manner calling them an Islamist group. Which i am sure they are, but if a Christian group had a terror plot thwarted would we label them as a Christian group? There is a stigma regarding Muslims and Islam that people can't help but separate from the rest of society in a way that they wouldn't if it were Christians. Religion wouldn't even be mentioned then.

Were they an Islamist group? Then why'd don't we call then a group of alternative life stylists . Much nicer.
If a group from the salvation army were involved, it would be called a group of Salvation Army fanatics. If they did that same thing over and over across the world, they'd soon belabelled terrorists.
Geez we are quick to jump to their defence
Anyone taking bets that they are Muslims. If so call them what they are, no matter who they are. :brick:

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Malcolm urges us not to let ourselves get divided then proceeds to talk in an us v them manner calling them an Islamist group. Which i am sure they are, but if a Christian group had a terror plot thwarted would we label them as a Christian group? There is a stigma regarding Muslims and Islam that people can't help but separate from the rest of society in a way that they wouldn't if it were Christians. Religion wouldn't even be mentioned then.

Were they an Islamist group? Then why'd don't we call then a group of alternative life stylists . Much nicer.
If a group from the salvation army were involved, it would be called a group of Salvation Army fanatics. If they did that same thing over and over across the world, they'd soon belabelled terrorists.
Geez we are quick to jump to their defence
Anyone taking bets that they are Muslims. If so call them what they are, no matter who they are. :brick:

But why not refer to Christian groups as Christian, that is my point. When do the KKK ever get labelled a Christian group? I will tell you. Never.

 

[Newtown]

KKK are not a Christian group because they do not follow Christian beliefs.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

KKK are not a Christian group because they do not follow Christian beliefs.

And most moderate Muslims will tell you these groups aren't Islamic because they don't follow Islamic beliefs.

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

KKK are not a Christian group because they do not follow Christian beliefs.

And most moderate Muslims will tell you these groups aren't Islamic because they don't follow Islamic beliefs.

You can call the KKK anything you want, they're irrelevant to 99.999%
Of the world
Whereas Muslim terrorism is common across the world
Deny it all you like,

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

KKK are not a Christian group because they do not follow Christian beliefs.

And most of them wouldn't have been in a church in their life,they were a bunch of White supremist rednecks . Race, not religion was their big thing