Coronavirus Outbreak

[hank37w]

I don't claim to be any sort of expert and I don't read and pull apart all the studies about COVID that are out there and if I did I probably wouldn't be able to fully understand and come to a definitive conclusion about what it all means.

I'll be up front and say that I have had both doses of AZ and I will most likely have a booster shot sometime in January or February.

I have sympathy for those that are vaccine hesitant or have a genuine reason for not getting vaccinated, which I believe is an extremely small number of people, a much smaller number than all those that claim that they cannot have a vaccine. As time has gone by I have also come to sympathize and understand the "non loonies" who have genuine concerns about the rights and freedoms of individuals.

Having said all that I can't help but be critical of anti vaxxers and people that have blatantly ignored directives to isolate and have gone out to functions and gatherings that have ended up as super spreader events.

My thought all along have been that some of the fines that have been imposed are a joke and jail time is what has been required to send a strong message to the whole community about what personal responsibility means.

There is definitely a difference between the rights and freedoms of an individual and their personal responsibility to those around them and the general community.

Let's be honest here, how many 20 year olds have 10k to pay as a fine? What are they going to do? Cancel their licence, not allow their car to be re-registered? Do they even have one?

All this at a time when supposedly responsible people like politicians or even Deputy Premiers of a State Rip up invoices for money owed for hotel quarantine. I mean what sort of a message does that send to the general community?

I know it's early days yet as far as Omicron goes and we have a lot to learn about it, but most things are pointing to it being highly contagious but not anywhere near as severe as previous versions.

I know that people are freaking out about how high infection numbers are and what they are projected to be at various stages, I guess we can only wait and see, however on some numbers that I heard yesterday indicated that we had something like 33 people in ICU in NSW.

Of those 33, 26 were unvaccinated. I don't know anything about underlying health issues, ages etc. but just simply doing the maths on those figures it tells me that just on 26% of ICU patients were fully vaccinated.

Allowing for the fact that almost 95% of the population are fully vaccinated, you would expect that almost all of the ICU patients would be fully vaccinated if the vaccines did not work as the anti vaxxers are insisting.

I don't know how bad things are going to get and whether the hospitals are going to be able to cope with the numbers, but it looks as though at some stage we will all get it and everything still points to vaccination still being our best protection against a dose that is so severe that you may end up in ICU.

 

[earl]

Of those 33, 26 were unvaccinated. I don’t know anything about underlying health issues, ages etc. but just simply doing the maths on those figures it tells me that just on 26% of ICU patients were fully vaccinated

I don't know if your specific numbers are correct but the unvaccinated cost society significantly more.

You should get a booster shot and get the Pfizer or Moderna. 2 doses of any vaccine are definitely losing their effectiveness in relation to contracting the virus and the AZ more than the others. I'm not sure about effectiveness against hospitalization which to be fair is more important.

 

[diedpretty]

But as we have now seen being double vaxxed doesn’t prevent you from catching and spreading the virus. So to me the whole thing seems a sham.

This is really poor logic and it's not even true. Vaccination predominantly is to save your life and lessen the burden on the hospital system. If it stops spread completely that is fantastic but it's highly unlikely.

The proof that it works is completely obvious to me. We would have been smashed with Delta and we did exceptionally well once we were vaxxed. Let's see how we go with Omicron but so far it looks like the unvaccinated yet again have a much higher risk profile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QkX5lvUPCE

You have taken what i said totally out of context. I am not talking about limiting the severity of the virus. What i said was it appears that being double vaxxed doesn't stop you from getting the virus or from spreading it. So my point was why are unvaxxed losing their jobs when there is no evidence to suggest that they spread the virus any more so than those double vaxxed.

 

[earl]

You have taken what i said totally out of context. I am not talking about limiting the severity of the virus. What i said was it appears that being double vaxxed doesn’t stop you from getting the virus or from spreading it. So my point was why are unvaxxed losing their jobs when there is no evidence to suggest that they spread the virus any more so than those double vaxxed.

I understand what you art stating but I don't agree with it at all leaving aside the the unvaxxed losing their jobs.

There are like 2 issues:-

1. The public health impact. This clearly shows that being vaccinated has a massively beneficial impact in mitigating the negatives effects of COVID.
2. People losing their jobs due to vaccination mandates.

In relation to issue 1 it isn't about stopping the spread completely and if anyone has told you that then you have the wrong impression. It's like arguing that wearing seat belts is stupid because some people die in car accidents.

When it comes to point 2 I don't know the answer. My assumption is that if you aren't vaccinated than you have to suffer some consequences because you've made a decision that is detrimental to society. Whatever consequence society implements will lead to people complaining. What do you do.

 

[Papacito]

But as we have now seen being double vaxxed doesn’t prevent you from catching and spreading the virus. So to me the whole thing seems a sham.

This is really poor logic and it's not even true. Vaccination predominantly is to save your life and lessen the burden on the hospital system. If it stops spread completely that is fantastic but it's highly unlikely.

The proof that it works is completely obvious to me. We would have been smashed with Delta and we did exceptionally well once we were vaxxed. Let's see how we go with Omicron but so far it looks like the unvaccinated yet again have a much higher risk profile.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QkX5lvUPCE

You have taken what i said totally out of context. I am not talking about limiting the severity of the virus. What i said was it appears that being double vaxxed doesn't stop you from getting the virus or from spreading it. So my point was why are unvaxxed losing their jobs when there is no evidence to suggest that they spread the virus any more so than those double vaxxed.

I can speak somewhat to the employment part of your post based on recent experience.

Australian workplace health and safety laws are based on the principle of practical risk minimisation.

An unvaccinated person could very easily be harmed if they are put them in close proximity to an infected person for a 10 hour shift.

Ensuring staff are vaccinated is a practical risk minimisation in many workplaces.

It's not entirely different to someone saying they don't want to wear a hardhat to minimise risk of injury.

 

[twentyforty]

I was in the supermarket at Lake Cathie today and bumped in to an ex colleague ( i'm retired ). We worked together in a facility that accommodated violent people with dual diagnosis for 20 years. She has been a mental health nurse for 40 odd years. Asked how she was going and she tells me she has been given to the new year to get vaccinated or her services are no longer required. She has her reasons for not getting vaxxed that relate to previous health issues. Whether those reasons are valid or not i have no idea. I'm fully vaxxed but it made me wonder about what sort of a society are we creating when people no longer have the freedom of choice and are punished with the loss of their livelihood if they don't toe the line.

Its a society at war with an unforgiving enemy which has killed over 5million of us already. We all come from and have experienced different backgrounds which provides various concepts and opinions of the meaning in the word "freedom". The truth is we have never been free. Our behaviour is influenced by a range of rules, traditions, lores and laws. The more mature our thinking becomes the more we reject the notion of conforming. I think people should have a choice and that's why I choose to join the fight. Good luck to your colleague mate. Stay safe.

Its almost as though companies are terminating people without doing any research whatsoever. I would assume their reason for terminating unvaxxed employees is to avoid any spreading of the virus. But as we have now seen being double vaxxed doesn't prevent you from catching and spreading the virus. So to me the whole thing seems a sham.

Is it legal for a company, or any business for that matter to request medical records of employees other than the Covid vax record?

 

[cochise]

I was in the supermarket at Lake Cathie today and bumped in to an ex colleague ( i'm retired ). We worked together in a facility that accommodated violent people with dual diagnosis for 20 years. She has been a mental health nurse for 40 odd years. Asked how she was going and she tells me she has been given to the new year to get vaccinated or her services are no longer required. She has her reasons for not getting vaxxed that relate to previous health issues. Whether those reasons are valid or not i have no idea. I'm fully vaxxed but it made me wonder about what sort of a society are we creating when people no longer have the freedom of choice and are punished with the loss of their livelihood if they don't toe the line.

Its a society at war with an unforgiving enemy which has killed over 5million of us already. We all come from and have experienced different backgrounds which provides various concepts and opinions of the meaning in the word "freedom". The truth is we have never been free. Our behaviour is influenced by a range of rules, traditions, lores and laws. The more mature our thinking becomes the more we reject the notion of conforming. I think people should have a choice and that's why I choose to join the fight. Good luck to your colleague mate. Stay safe.

Its almost as though companies are terminating people without doing any research whatsoever. I would assume their reason for terminating unvaxxed employees is to avoid any spreading of the virus. But as we have now seen being double vaxxed doesn't prevent you from catching and spreading the virus. So to me the whole thing seems a sham.


Is it legal for a company, or any business for that matter to request medical records of employees other than the Covid vax record?

Vaccination status, yes. A friend of mine couldn't be employed in an abattoir due to an egg allergy that prevented him being vaccinated against Q fever.

Also many employers have a medical as a condition of employment.

 

[leichhardtjunior]


Just when the last dozen or so posts were made up of reasonably civil discussion, up pops a moron

so this forum has really gone down the drain - people calling each other names - "moron" really?

I miss the old posters of this forum - I've been a member for a while - I hardly post but I do read a bit and enjoy the interaction - lately it is just plain either insulting each other or someone being a troll - we can all be keyboard warriors but please know when to stop

Meh, eye for an eye I say. If you don’t want to be called a moron… don’t be a moron. Pretty simple.

Sounds "transparently weak and nasty"...

Think you’re missing the point.
Some choose to work in packs and try and disguise their spiteful bigoted comments behind insincere ‘caring advice’.
I don’t respect them. And I’m not trying to disguise it.

Get the job, don't get the jab.
I couldn't care less.
Just don't quote the internet trying to push ur agenda.
That's my only point.

Couldn’t jive a rats about your point mate.
People can quote whatever source they feel is relevant. Who the the [This word has been automatically removed] are you or any other yes man on here to dictate who can speak or be listened too?
You push your agenda by quoting anything from a .gov website like a good little boy.

 

[leichhardtjunior]

"Control me harder, Daddy!” ??

https://twitter.com/drdina1/status/1473247587176108036?s=20

Why does she tweet 4-5 times per day about not getting vaccinated? Don’t understand the fascination hey. Oops almost missed my 10am anti vaxx tweet.

Ha! you don’t realise how ridiculous you are do you?
How many hours a day are you here doing the same thing dopey ?

 

[twentyforty]

I was in the supermarket at Lake Cathie today and bumped in to an ex colleague ( i'm retired ). We worked together in a facility that accommodated violent people with dual diagnosis for 20 years. She has been a mental health nurse for 40 odd years. Asked how she was going and she tells me she has been given to the new year to get vaccinated or her services are no longer required. She has her reasons for not getting vaxxed that relate to previous health issues. Whether those reasons are valid or not i have no idea. I'm fully vaxxed but it made me wonder about what sort of a society are we creating when people no longer have the freedom of choice and are punished with the loss of their livelihood if they don't toe the line.

Its a society at war with an unforgiving enemy which has killed over 5million of us already. We all come from and have experienced different backgrounds which provides various concepts and opinions of the meaning in the word "freedom". The truth is we have never been free. Our behaviour is influenced by a range of rules, traditions, lores and laws. The more mature our thinking becomes the more we reject the notion of conforming. I think people should have a choice and that's why I choose to join the fight. Good luck to your colleague mate. Stay safe.

Its almost as though companies are terminating people without doing any research whatsoever. I would assume their reason for terminating unvaxxed employees is to avoid any spreading of the virus. But as we have now seen being double vaxxed doesn't prevent you from catching and spreading the virus. So to me the whole thing seems a sham.


Is it legal for a company, or any business for that matter to request medical records of employees other than the Covid vax record?

Vaccination status, yes. A friend of mine couldn't be employed in an abattoir due to an egg allergy that prevented him being vaccinated against Q fever.

Also many employers have a medical as a condition of employment.

I suppose in the future an employer may look at a prospective employee’s gene sequence for possible future health concerns? As in your example with your friend, what if he wasn’t aware of possible dangers to a seemingly innocuous working environment.
I was thinking of diedpretty’s colleague’s case where the employee states a medical reason for her inability to comply or perform a task? The employer has the difficult task of negotiating around those issues or complying with the national health directive. I know which route would offer the least resistance. Much easier to replace the employee with a vaxed one?

 

[leichhardtjunior]


Just when the last dozen or so posts were made up of reasonably civil discussion, up pops a moron

so this forum has really gone down the drain - people calling each other names - "moron" really?

I miss the old posters of this forum - I've been a member for a while - I hardly post but I do read a bit and enjoy the interaction - lately it is just plain either insulting each other or someone being a troll - we can all be keyboard warriors but please know when to stop

Meh, eye for an eye I say. If you don’t want to be called a moron… don’t be a moron. Pretty simple.

Sounds "transparently weak and nasty"...

Think you’re missing the point.
Some choose to work in packs and try and disguise their spiteful bigoted comments behind insincere ‘caring advice’.
I don’t respect them. And I’m not trying to disguise it.

A lot of US here know each other online and personally
as well as know TT personally for years.. It's not
hard to see the change for the negative.
There's on topic discussion... And then
there can also be concern.

Don't know who you are.
Some blow-in troll.

You think it makes it better that you actually know him personally and choose to publicly ridicule his opinions and judge his choices as you do on here?
You just went down another notch in the genuine friend stakes mate.
Don’t know you either.
Happy with that.

 

[leichhardtjunior]

If the powers that be tell you in order to continue supporting ur family you have to every day at 3pm bang ur head 12 times on the wall and point ur dick at the sun, you know where I'll be at 3pm.
If that turns me into a zombie in 10 years I won't be coming here looking for brains

Wherever you think you should look, I’d start now.
Just remember to stop and bang your head against the wall at 3 👍

 

[old_man_tiger]

I don't claim to be any sort of expert and I don't read and pull apart all the studies about COVID that are out there and if I did I probably wouldn't be able to fully understand and come to a definitive conclusion about what it all means.

I'll be up front and say that I have had both doses of AZ and I will most likely have a booster shot sometime in January or February.

I have sympathy for those that are vaccine hesitant or have a genuine reason for not getting vaccinated, which I believe is an extremely small number of people, a much smaller number than all those that claim that they cannot have a vaccine. As time has gone by I have also come to sympathize and understand the "non loonies" who have genuine concerns about the rights and freedoms of individuals.

Having said all that I can't help but be critical of anti vaxxers and people that have blatantly ignored directives to isolate and have gone out to functions and gatherings that have ended up as super spreader events.

My thought all along have been that some of the fines that have been imposed are a joke and jail time is what has been required to send a strong message to the whole community about what personal responsibility means.

There is definitely a difference between the rights and freedoms of an individual and their personal responsibility to those around them and the general community.

Let's be honest here, how many 20 year olds have 10k to pay as a fine? What are they going to do? Cancel their licence, not allow their car to be re-registered? Do they even have one?

All this at a time when supposedly responsible people like politicians or even Deputy Premiers of a State Rip up invoices for money owed for hotel quarantine. I mean what sort of a message does that send to the general community?

I know it's early days yet as far as Omicron goes and we have a lot to learn about it, but most things are pointing to it being highly contagious but not anywhere near as severe as previous versions.

I know that people are freaking out about how high infection numbers are and what they are projected to be at various stages, I guess we can only wait and see, however on some numbers that I heard yesterday indicated that we had something like 33 people in ICU in NSW.

Of those 33, 26 were unvaccinated. I don't know anything about underlying health issues, ages etc. but just simply doing the maths on those figures it tells me that just on 26% of ICU patients were fully vaccinated.

Allowing for the fact that almost 95% of the population are fully vaccinated, you would expect that almost all of the ICU patients would be fully vaccinated if the vaccines did not work as the anti vaxxers are insisting.

I don't know how bad things are going to get and whether the hospitals are going to be able to cope with the numbers, but it looks as though at some stage we will all get it and everything still points to vaccination still being our best protection against a dose that is so severe that you may end up in ICU.

Thanks for posting. Easy to forget we don't all have to agree or see things the same way, but it is still not that hard to use a bit of simple logic, do the right thing by the people around you and keep society working.

 

[BAGNF05]

"Control me harder, Daddy!” ??

https://twitter.com/drdina1/status/1473247587176108036?s=20

Why does she tweet 4-5 times per day about not getting vaccinated? Don’t understand the fascination hey. Oops almost missed my 10am anti vaxx tweet.

Ha! you don’t realise how ridiculous you are do you?
How many hours a day are you here doing the same thing dopey ?

None. Couldn’t give a rats who’s jabbed and who isn’t. People spreading BS I’ll take to task.

 

[PJ_]


Just when the last dozen or so posts were made up of reasonably civil discussion, up pops a moron

so this forum has really gone down the drain - people calling each other names - "moron" really?

I miss the old posters of this forum - I've been a member for a while - I hardly post but I do read a bit and enjoy the interaction - lately it is just plain either insulting each other or someone being a troll - we can all be keyboard warriors but please know when to stop

Meh, eye for an eye I say. If you don’t want to be called a moron… don’t be a moron. Pretty simple.

Sounds "transparently weak and nasty"...

Think you’re missing the point.
Some choose to work in packs and try and disguise their spiteful bigoted comments behind insincere ‘caring advice’.
I don’t respect them. And I’m not trying to disguise it.

Get the job, don't get the jab.
I couldn't care less.
Just don't quote the internet trying to push ur agenda.
That's my only point.

Couldn’t jive a rats about your point mate.
People can quote whatever source they feel is relevant. Who the the [censored] are you or any other yes man on here to dictate who can speak or be listened too?
You push your agenda by quoting anything from a .gov website like a good little boy.

Sounds like you do

 

[PJ_]

If the powers that be tell you in order to continue supporting ur family you have to every day at 3pm bang ur head 12 times on the wall and point ur dick at the sun, you know where I'll be at 3pm.
If that turns me into a zombie in 10 years I won't be coming here looking for brains

Wherever you think you should look, I’d start now.
Just remember to stop and bang your head against the wall at 3 ?

I will

 

[BAGNF05]

You have taken what i said totally out of context. I am not talking about limiting the severity of the virus. What i said was it appears that being double vaxxed doesn’t stop you from getting the virus or from spreading it. So my point was why are unvaxxed losing their jobs when there is no evidence to suggest that they spread the virus any more so than those double vaxxed.

I understand what you art stating but I don't agree with it at all leaving aside the the unvaxxed losing their jobs.

There are like 2 issues:-

1. The public health impact. This clearly shows that being vaccinated has a massively beneficial impact in mitigating the negatives effects of COVID.
2. People losing their jobs due to vaccination mandates.

In relation to issue 1 it isn't about stopping the spread completely and if anyone has told you that then you have the wrong impression. It's like arguing that wearing seat belts is stupid because some people die in car accidents.

When it comes to point 2 I don't know the answer. My assumption is that if you aren't vaccinated than you have to suffer some consequences because you've made a decision that is detrimental to society. Whatever consequence society implements will lead to people complaining. What do you do.

On point 2, employers need to balance the health and well-being of all their employees. Whether you agree with the science or not, If most employees feel safer among vaxxed colleagues, then most employers will act to promote vaccination. A mate of mine works at Woolies and feels safer having customers wear masks. He also doesn’t want to be in isolation over xmas as he is a big family man. Whether or not the science is good, people have a right to feel safe at work.

 

[leichhardtjunior]

"Control me harder, Daddy!” ??

https://twitter.com/drdina1/status/1473247587176108036?s=20

Why does she tweet 4-5 times per day about not getting vaccinated? Don’t understand the fascination hey. Oops almost missed my 10am anti vaxx tweet.

Ha! you don’t realise how ridiculous you are do you?
How many hours a day are you here doing the same thing dopey ?

None. Couldn’t give a rats who’s jabbed and who isn’t. People spreading BS I’ll take to task.

Keep telling yourself that pal ?

 

[ConePuncher]

I agree @BAGNF05

Unfortunately these selfish, smooth brained imbeciles like @leichhardtjunior seem to think that their desire to ignore science and healthcare trumps everyone else's right not to be willfully exposed to a deadly virus.

At least this current outbreak of Omicron is thinning the heard of arrogant, entitled assholes. It's the consequences of their own actions, and it's glorious to see.

 

[BAGNF05]

"Control me harder, Daddy!” ??

https://twitter.com/drdina1/status/1473247587176108036?s=20

Why does she tweet 4-5 times per day about not getting vaccinated? Don’t understand the fascination hey. Oops almost missed my 10am anti vaxx tweet.

Ha! you don’t realise how ridiculous you are do you?
How many hours a day are you here doing the same thing dopey ?

None. Couldn’t give a rats who’s jabbed and who isn’t. People spreading BS I’ll take to task.

Keep telling yourself that pal ?

My mother and some of my best mates are unvaccinated. They don’t go around making up fairytales though.