From WT's point of view

T

Tigerpete

Active member
With all the dramas of the past few days it's been pretty easy to hold the one eyed view and point the finger at the club for attempting to offload Beau Ryan and Chris Heighington, but i took a moment to think about it from another angle. The club's angle. I'm not impressed with the leadership or direction of the club anymore. In fact i'm worried.

So why would WT's be okay with letting two clubmen go right now? is there a back up plan? Is this the change of direction we've been craving but with a different shop front than expected?? I don't think any of those to be honest. To tell you the truth, i have no idea what they are doing. It all seems a little like "headless chooks".

With Beau's apparent departure, i think it's most likely a shift towards youth. A shift towards Koroibete and Noafoluma. is it possible that in 2014 they will occupy both wings for WT's? Perhaps WT's feel they can use Tuqiri and Utai for the best part of 2013 and hope Koro and Nofo can mature over 2013\. Perhaps we'll see them both earlier than that??

On Heighington, the picture seems more clearer. It appears they just don't see a long term plan involving Chris. That we may've seen the best of him already. In Blair, BMM and Pettybourne, we'll have 3 pretty solid players capable of playing back row. There's also the impending emergence of Shaun Spence, touch wood.

If all this was to be true, i would ask - Why are we in this position?? To me it looks like failed recruitment, or perhaps some younger guys just never made the step the club hoped. Think the Shirnack brothers, Matt Hyland and of course the unfortunate Simon Dwyer.
 
I would suggest they are trying to restructure the clubs underbelly. The only trend I can see is that they are looking to remove people whom are the "fun guys" of the club. We are all sick of being the forward pack that does not scare or intimidate anyone.

This playing group found success too early. You cannot dismiss Benji or Robbie so you remove the guys around them whom have been there for a long time. You bring in players with their own discipline or you introduce juniors whom have not yet been tainted by the clubs existing issues (which has become the status quo).

I keep thinking back to a post I read last week about Folkes, and that the players didn't want him because he was too much of a disciplinarian. Senior players get disgruntled and that odour slowly spreads through the squad.

We may be looking at a culture shift…...shame their efforts have missed the one main target......or have they...
 
Obviously most of us would have rathered a new coach to a player cleanout. Considering that we seem to be stuck with Sheens for at least 2013 I think the next best solution would be a player cleanout of some description. The way we seem to have done it, is not perfect, but after the year we've had drastic times call for drastic measures.

Beau Ryan leaving is not the greatest thing ever but let's get some perspective. He is a solid winger, an average fullback and a nothing centre. The Tigers have the three most exciting young outside backs in the game on the books in Tedesco, Koroibete and Nofoaluma. I will grant you that we could have kept him at the expense of Tuqiri and/or Utai but there has been no official word on either. If we have kept one or both there is an argument for it. Ryan is an easier sell. Ryan is peaking, he's young and he has a lot of media face time that helps a club with exposure. A club like the Sharks needs that when you consider that they were almost dead only 24 months ago. Utai would be unlikely to receive a contract anywhere else and honestly, he was very good this year. Tuqiri has been injured a lot recently. If he has been re-signed it would have to be a one year deal and significantly reduced. Tuqiri is a better player than Beau Ryan. I don't care if he's had a few unlucky injuries, he is not an old decrepit man. He has a hell of a lot less footy time in his legs than most players his age and he is an athletic freak. He is also great value to have around the club and would be fantastic for Koroibete. Ryan is one of the players I was almost wishing we didn't have. Not because I don't like him, I really really like him, he is probably my favourite player, but because he had a lock on a top 17 spot and was one of the players that Sheens just couldn't have around without putting him ahead of a talented youngster.

Same goes for Heighington. We have signed Pettybourne, Anasta and Thompson and already have Bell, Murdoch-Masila, Fulton, Blair who are all capable lock/backrowers. We also have Vela, Santi, Innosesio, Fotuiaka and Davis among others who can play where Heighington plays and all of these kids would be champing at the bit for a start. Heighington is actually probably a worse loss than Beau when you consider that we've lost Moors and Ellis this season already but if I was choosing between losing him, Fulton or Blair … I would choose Blair, but you can't expect WT to do the same after 1 year of a 4 year deal. In honesty though Heighington has plodded for two years. He played okay towards the end of the season but too little too late. I am not upset to see him gone. He, like Ryan, is a guy that has a lock on a spot that shouldn't.

We have cried for a little accountability. This isn't exactly what we wanted, but it's a start. With vacancies in the side we can now expect some competition for positions. I hope we see more cut loose. Moltzen or Ayshford would be my next on the block. Preferably Moltzen.

At the end of the day if this means we get a faster and more dangerous backline and a more impactful backrow, and guys like Murdoch-Masila, Koroibete, Nofoaluma et al get more game time. It is far from a bad thing. Badly organised yes, but hardly worth crying over. I believe the used phrase is a dog act, on behalf of the club, but alas Sheens is a desperate man.
 
Backrow and the release of Highno maeks complete sense from a football point of view
Backrow Options
Fulton, Blair, Pettybourne, Murdoch Masiala, Matt Bell, Anasta, Sironen, Spence, Bodene Thompson along with these 9 we have 3 or 4 of up and coming stars in the backrow in the U20s with Lovett, Seu, Santi

In the backline we have less depth but we have Koroibete who sure looked a permenent first grader, Utai who has another solid year in him, Nofoaluma who is again a rising star as well as Reddy, Simona, Grant, Hytchox in NSW Cup who can all play wing. So perhaps I think we are making room for a high quality centre to partner Lawrence which I think we all agree is required

I can definatly understand this from the clubs point of view especially Highno. Beau I would have kept but I don't no how much he is on or who we get instead

Also I think we need to remember Highno is getting a 3 yr contract in the NRl which he was never going to get with us (or most clubs) and that Beau isn't being sacked he was off contract and he has chosen to go to another club where I am sure he will be making good money playing rugby league not exactly a horrible thing we have done to either
 
I think the OP is pretty close… We as the Fans really have no idea what is going on and why.

All this speculating, whining about 'they are doing it wrong'; 'they have no idea' is purely reactive and keeps lighting flames on everyone's passion.

One thing is for certain, I wouldnt be listening to many on here who tell us they know something and take it as being true.

Stop getting sucked in by rumours and myths!
 
I agree that Heighnos best footy has probably happened and so the fact that he may grab a 3 year deal and remain an NRL player is good to see for him. We have a lot of talent in the backrow and they should be given a chance.

Ryan on the other hand has done everything and more that has been asked from him this year. He is still on the up. replacing him with unproven players from the lower grades is very risky and premature. Beau was our best back this year by the length of the straight.

The only way I'll get on board with the decisions of this club is if they sign an accomplished halfback. We havent had one for 7 years (although Lui was getting there) and the results speak for themselves.
 
@Tiger Watto said:
I think the OP is pretty close… We as the Fans really have no idea what is going on and why.

All this speculating, whining about 'they are doing it wrong'; 'they have no idea' is purely reactive and keeps lighting flames on everyone's passion.

One thing is for certain, I wouldnt be listening to many on here who tell us they know something and take it as being true.

Stop getting sucked in by rumours and myths!
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You say we are speculating and we are getting sucked in by rumor and myths.I say look at the last five years recruitment and the continual situation of players playing out of position ala sheens.While you stand by and try to defend this crap I for one wont stand by and try to reason with Constant mediocrity.We need Change not more Humphries puppets.
 
@Karma Tiger said:
@Tiger Watto said:
I think the OP is pretty close… We as the Fans really have no idea what is going on and why.

All this speculating, whining about 'they are doing it wrong'; 'they have no idea' is purely reactive and keeps lighting flames on everyone's passion.

One thing is for certain, I wouldnt be listening to many on here who tell us they know something and take it as being true.

Stop getting sucked in by rumours and myths!

You say we are speculating and we are getting sucked in by rumor and myths.I say look at the last five years recruitment and the continual situation of players playing out of position ala sheens.While you stand by and try to defend this crap I for one wont stand by and try to reason with Constant mediocrity.We need Change not more Humphreys puppets.
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Keep flying your banners… Everyone on the Forum is listening. If you haven't realised yet, No one at the Wests Tigers is?!
 
I have no dramas with Rhino and Ryan being moved on per se, I more have an issue with the way it has been done. It smacks of decisions being made on the run and/or as a panicked response to losing the last 2 games. Surely an assessment on Beau Ryan was made prior to him signing a contract extension - apart from the issues relating to salary cap pressures has that much really changed since then?
As for Chris Heighington, you'd think this sort of thing should have been worked out before the end of the season so that Chris and the club's supporters had a proper chance to farewell a great servant of the club. Yes I am aware that could be disruptive but I think he's owed it.
 
@Yossarian said:
I have no dramas with Rhino and Ryan being moved on per se, I more have an issue with the way it has been done. It smacks of decisions being made on the run and/or as a panicked response to losing the last 2 games. Surely an assessment on Beau Ryan was made prior to him signing a contract extension - apart from the issues relating to salary cap pressures has that much really changed since then?
As for Chris Heighington, you'd think this sort of thing should have been worked out before the end of the season so that Chris and the club's supporters had a proper chance to farewell a great servant of the club. Yes I am aware that could be disruptive but I think he's owed it.
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Much the same as last year with Gibbs & Fafita…..the Sharks forced our hand on Fafita, we are NOT in control of our recruitment and retention, its spur of the moment, impulse purchase type rubbish
 
I agree that there are always two sides to the story. I just can't imagine what the side is that means turning our back on Beau Ryan. Even looking at the best case scenarios as outlined above, I can still see reasons for the CLUB to keep him!
 
as crazy as it sounds, we could be headed in the right direction. just what the doctor ordered.
i like the look of the new back row.
i can only remain hopeful about the backline (and that we are making a play for someone else??)… because reddy isnt a starting player. the ryan transaction doesnt make much sense.
 
@Yossarian said:
I have no dramas with Rhino and Ryan being moved on per se, I more have an issue with the way it has been done. It smacks of decisions being made on the run and/or as a panicked response to losing the last 2 games. Surely an assessment on Beau Ryan was made prior to him signing a contract extension - apart from the issues relating to salary cap pressures has that much really changed since then?
As for Chris Heighington, you'd think this sort of thing should have been worked out before the end of the season so that Chris and the club's supporters had a proper chance to farewell a great servant of the club. Yes I am aware that could be disruptive but I think he's owed it.
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Ahh Beau didn't sign a contract extension isn't that the point of why this is happeneing - we aren't releasing him he didn't have a contract. As for Highno - We tried to offload him last year, we signed Pettybourne, Thompson and Anasta who all play back row and have made it clear he was not going to get another contract after next year - he has the choice of staying for next year if he wants as he has a contract.

Highno is a good decision. As for Beau well I will wait and see who we sign and how we line up before making a judgement (Although he could have signed the contract and made us stick to it if he wanted earlier in the year). I dont think its perfect but then again a month out from the end of the year we were 6th so we wernt in the position we ended up in
 
After 2012 some hard calls had to be made, so the offloading of Ryan and Rhino in principle is not a bad idea. Its how they do thing that worries me and the effect it will have on the team. Anyway I would have thought they would have learn t some lessons after the Gibbs/Fifita thing last year
 
@Tigersmurf said:
I would suggest they are trying to restructure the clubs underbelly. The only trend I can see is that they are looking to remove people whom are the "fun guys" of the club. We are all sick of being the forward pack that does not scare or intimidate anyone.

This playing group found success too early. You cannot dismiss Benji or Robbie so you remove the guys around them whom have been there for a long time. You bring in players with their own discipline or you introduce juniors whom have not yet been tainted by the clubs existing issues (which has become the status quo).

I keep thinking back to a post I read last week about Folkes, and that the players didn't want him because he was too much of a disciplinarian. Senior players get disgruntled and that odour slowly spreads through the squad.

We may be looking at a culture shift…...shame their efforts have missed the one main target......or have they...
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Makes sense, well said!
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_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_
 
@supercoach said:
After 2012 some hard calls had to be made, so the offloading of Ryan and Rhino in principle is not a bad idea. **Its how they do thing that worries me and the effect it will have on the team**. Anyway I would have thought they would have learn t some lessons after the Gibbs/Fifita thing last year
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There aren't too many ways of off loading contracted players that keeps everyone happy. If Sheens does stay I think this is the next best thing in re-invigorate our playing roster. If Rhino was to stay and kept getting overlooked for a top 17 spot it would have a far worse affect on the players. I think that getting rid of players who may have passed their peak and bringing in new blood is better than doing nothing right now. Alas, I am of similar understanding to some others in hoping that there is at least a modicum of plan of sorts for what's going on.

I agree that we need a decent halfback - gee someone like Cronulla's Jeff Robson whom I consider the buy of the season. Nothing flash but gets the job done. I would settle for another attacking centre though.

nuff said
 
Very good post tigerpete! For reasons we will probably never know there has been a lot of unrest in the team for a few years now and the only way that will change is either the coach or certain players have to go if we are to move forward. By luck or good fortune it seems the coach has dodged the bullet for the moment and he is attempting to put a line in the sand for 2013\. Blind freddy could see there has/is problems in the playing group over the past 2 years and it seems to have come down to the coach or certain players. The fear I have is that it won't end here and Robbie will move on before 2013\. This means the real problem and lack of foresight for the future lies with Humphreys & the BoArd because they ran scared when Panthers wanted Sheens. They did this cause they thought 2013 was in the bag and placed their bet on Sheens to deliver. Now they are faced with the situation where change is required cuase they gambled & lost and now can't do what they really want to do cause they placed too many eggs in one basket
 
If Ryan goes and Tuqiri is re-signed, it's ridiculous.

I could understand if they want Nofo and Korobiete to start on both wings in 2013 for some youth, but letting go of Beau just for Tuqiri would be stupid.
 
As I said unless we are making a play for a PROPER halfback for 2013 Sheens in my opinion is looking for any scapegoat he can find to save his butt
 
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