Hastings VS Brooks

[Demps]

So with the apparent breakdown in relations between Brooks and the coach, will Hastings come in as starting halfback next year? Could be the fresh start the club needs.

That's still very much speculation. Having said that, Brooks at 7 can't continue. I'd train Hastings at 7, move Brooks to 6, he should be looking to run rather than organise and just look to hit hole runners on the edges which he is capable of doing.

?

Great post...

Then hopefully shop Brooks and move him on in 2023 if he can't hang at 6.

Guys Milford 2.0

 

[Needaname]

Until he leaves the club, I am willing to die on the "Brooks is a good halfback" hill.

But...he's not? 😕

He's not super consistent, but he plays enough good games in a year that should be able to take us to the finals. He's your classic rocks and diamonds halfback.

**Halfback Standards**
Until Cooper Cronk and Thurston came along, most fans didn't overestimate their halfbacks. Go watch late 90s and early 2000s games. When a team went well, they usually had a halfback who went on a streaky run of form, but otherwise he was fairly average in his career before that, including several rubbish performances in a single season.

Cronk, Thurston, and Johns before them changed how people looked at halfbacks. These days they can't have mistakes in them. The halfback has to execute those half-chances at a high strike rate.

Someone like Brett Kimmorley went underrated, simply because the standard of halfback play in his era was phenomenally high. He would be considered the best player in the game right now if he played, and did what he did in the late 90s/early-to-mid 2000s in this era. He did what Nathan Cleary is doing now. The problem with people remembering his achievements is that he did it for 3-4 years for 1 premiership, while Cronk and Thurston did it for 15 years for multiple premierships each.

Every halfback is now held to those standards. The standard is unreasonable. We need to dial back our expectations and realise that very few halfbacks can play well in 20 out of 24 games in a season. Especially when they don't have an amazing team around them.12-15 is a better expectation.

The reason I bring up Kimmorley is to exemplify the fact that people thought he was "an above average halfback". People's standards for that era are Cronk, Lockyer, and Thurston. The next tier down for them is a guy who would be a superstar today. They carried those standards through to today, not realising the immense ability those guys had.

**Good Players Around Him**
The more good players a halfback has in their team, the more they learn how to play a style to take advantage of those players' skills. Look at Jahrome Hughes. Same age. His development was way behind Luke Brooks in 2018.

Hughes has now gone way past Brooks. He has a good team and coaching structures around him. The key to Melbourne is they have players who are very good at a few certain skills. Most of their players are not all-round players, but the specific role Bellamy needs them to perform he can rely on them to do it correctly 95% of the time.

The problem with halfbacks at the moment is they are taught structures, but aren't allowed time to learn how to read and compare the attacking structure with the defensive structure. Hughes was able learn how to read those structures thanks to the great players he has around him. Guys like the Bromwich brothers, Asofa-Solomona, Kamikamica, Welch, and Kaufisi don't get enough credit. They run the perfect lines all day, which allows the halfback to watch and react, and give it to the second receiver if he doesn't see anything.

Even in our premiership year, we had many players in career best form at the time. Scott Prince was able to do what he did in 2005 because there were so many good players for him at his disposal. We had threat from the ruck (Farah + the forwards and the threat of a dummy half kick), threat from first receiver (fast forwards consistently running their lines perfectly, which means the halfback can delay his delivery until the perfect moment), and brilliance out wide (Benji and Hodgson). Prince remained good after that for a few years, but he never really re-captured what happened in that year.

Compare that to us. We often have guys running the wrong line, players overrunning decoys, guys trying to get in their structures and not paying attention to what's going on at the ball area (so not ready for offloads or line breaks).

**An Example of what a team actually looks like when it is due to the halfback's performance:**
The Raiders in 2021 are a good example of what can go wrong when the halfback is not playing well. They have so many good players in their team, almost all of whom are doing their job, but the halfback was getting it wrong more often than not. I actually think Brooks would kill it for the Raiders.

For Brooks, each season he is narrowing his gaps in form. With the exception of 2020, his patches are getting longer. I feel like now is the wrong time to get rid of him. Last off season was the time to get rid of him. His median performance is trending upwards at the moment.

long read, good detail, well composed. Yeah
I’m wondering based off your last paragraph whether you watched him closely this year and what how you would assess his performance.
Emotion aside, and not discounting some of the errors he made. How did you feel he progressed through the year? What areas did he looked improved in from the years prior? What did he do well this year? What didn’t he do well? What does he need to do more of? What areas did he drop off in from years prior? Do you see his future as a 6 or 7 or the number / position won’t make a difference.
Cheers.

- Kicking game was much improved. Had a decent variety, including spirals and higher bombs. Found grass quite often which was good to see.
- His decision making around run or pass around the 50-40m zone was quite bad. Teams are marking him better every year. He needs to call more unders lines on our centre to cut inside.
- His runs on their own were actually quite good, but no one seems to back them up. So even though he gets a fast play of the ball, the next play is always a shambles. Seems like he does them out of nowhere, with no visual cues. Either that or team mates are not paying attention. After he runs, the other playmakers should have a play ready to go.
- Same as previous years, he strengthens his weaknesses, but forgets his strengths. Some parts of his game are going forward, while others are going backwards. He used to be a good player under broken play, now he looks like a possum in headlights when the structures are broken. Some years his short kicking game is great, others it's terrible. His long kicking was the best it's ever been. He looked like a proper NRL half when coming out of our own end.
- Didn't change his game when Laurie and Doueihi got injured. He still ran the same plays regardless of the 1/6. This meant when the ball got to second and third receiver, the players who were receiving the ball did not have the ability to create positive play.
- Dreadful in the red zone attack. Ran too many similar shapes which opposition defences could quickly identify as the game went on. This is probably why we quite often had flurries of points in the second half. Our game would all of a sudden break loose and the opposition needed a moment to react to the change in tempo. We need more second phase play and more short shifts in the hot ball areas. If you watch Melbourne attack a goal line, their second receiver is usually standing within 5m of the first receiver. It forces defences to make quicker decisions.

To be honest, I see his future at another club. We ask him to wear too many hats, more than he can handle. He would play well in a team where his role was more simplified.

Thanks.
He was involved in a lot of long shifts as you mentioned. Which came off at times and in other times it game the defence plenty of time to slide. I thought his territory kicking game improved. Short kicking game he seemd to shelf that.
I agree with the breakdowns in broken play, I would estimate he had about 5 centre partners, 4 backrowers, 3 wingers, four 5/8s, 3 hookers and 3 fullbacks playing around him all year.
That probably had a lot to do with it. The two either side you would like to be a constant all year at least.
Last time he looked good he had Chris Lawrence on his hip and Kev Nqamia* outside him all year.

Found a thread from 2013 where he was being discussed throughout the year. One game he kicked a drop out 65m. He was renowned for having a long boot. I’m not sure where that went.
Also mentioned that he had plenty of time and was extremely composed. That all went out the window in 2014. In hindsight maybe they shouldn’t have babysit him so much in the early days and just let him lead the side with Anasta playing as the foil not around the other way.

I agree with the many hats. I firmly believed he carried the team all year. I don’t mean through only performances. Other stepped up more at times but the expectation of the tigers was all on his shoulders and he would of worn the brunt of the losses the most and I’m not even sure due to all that he would of enjoyed the wins much.

I hope he is doing so real r and r. I certainly saw someone that wanted to play his best football all year and for the side. Under Taylor you really questioned whether he wanted to be a footballer at all.

 

[happy_tiger]

Maybe Brooks and Hastings need to meet in Thunderdome

Two men enter ...any luck no men leave

 

[Pascoes_barber]

I guess our only hope is to teleport him back to the 1990s, where his performances will be deemed satisfactory. He'll fit right in with the Tigers team of that era.

 

[batboy]

Those calling for the banishment of Brooks will change their tune once Hastings has made half a dozen appearances

Hastings may not be the answer but Brooks definitely isn't.

But it’s such a low bar to be backing Hastings. I’d get it if people were pushing the club to sign an established NRL halfback, like if we had signed Reynolds, I’d get the excitement. But people are genuinely excited by Hastings and think he’ll turn the club around. And now Gildart is being talked up. It’s nuts.

I love it....
Hastings has been telling anyone with a set of ears (or eyes) how much he wants to be back in Australia... coupled with there's a lot more successful / financial teams than us that have been screaming for a Halfback for more than a while now
- But still he's in the Super league...
Why?
The Broncos (Top 4 successful teams in the last however long) ran a 30 something yr old bloke who never really played halves and hadn't played NRL in a decade rather than look to recruit him... There's teams running out kids to get swallowed in struggling teams.

I hope he swims, and swims well.... But this has sink written all over it.

 

[happy_tiger]

Those calling for the banishment of Brooks will change their tune once Hastings has made half a dozen appearances

Hastings may not be the answer but Brooks definitely isn't.

But it’s such a low bar to be backing Hastings. I’d get it if people were pushing the club to sign an established NRL halfback, like if we had signed Reynolds, I’d get the excitement. But people are genuinely excited by Hastings and think he’ll turn the club around. And now Gildart is being talked up. It’s nuts.

I love it....
Hastings has been telling anyone with a set of ears (or eyes) how much he wants to be back in Australia... coupled with there's a lot more successful / financial teams than us that have been screaming for a Halfback for more than a while now
- But still he's in the Super league...
Why?
The Broncos (Top 4 successful teams in the last however long) ran a 30 something yr old bloke who never really played halves and hadn't played NRL in a decade rather than look to recruit him... There's teams running out kids to get swallowed in struggling teams.

I hope he swims, and swims well.... But this has sink written all over it.

We are hiring for a KOE dynasty Batboy .....we will be the kings of KOE ...I'm excited

 

[cktiger]

Two things are for certain.
Firstly, Hastings hasn't played one game for us yet so the jury remains out.
Speculation is just that... whether you rate him or not.
In the last few years he has been not only the best halfback in Super League but also one of the best players.
Shows determination, skill and a will to win every game.
Whether that relates to NRL success remains to be seen.
Seems some don't to want him to succeed anyway (even if he doesn't play half) because it will get their noses out of joint that Brooks has been snubbed.
Or they just don't like the bloke.
Secondly we come to Luke Brooks.
How much more can you write about him?
Still has a few adoring fanboys but the ship is sinking.
Has been unable to show any consistency, or the skills required to steer 'his side' to success, for years.
Before that trotted out every excuse under the sun to take the heat off.
Generally stunk up the field all this year before making a mockery of our captaincy and, finally, tanking in a disastrous last game.
No speculation required ... proven failure.
Time to take a punt on someone else.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Two things are for certain.
Firstly, Hastings hasn't played one game for us yet so the jury remains out.
Speculation is just that... whether you rate him or not.
In the last few years he has been not only the best halfback in Super League but also one of the best players.
Shows determination, skill and a will to win every game.
Whether that relates to NRL success remains to be seen.
Seems some don't to want him to succeed anyway (even if he doesn't play half) because it will get their noses out of joint that Brooks has been snubbed.
Or they just don't like the bloke.
Secondly we come to Luke Brooks.
How much more can you write about him?
Still has a few adoring fanboys but the ship is sinking.
Has been unable to show any consistency, or the skills required to steer 'his side' to success, for years.
Before that trotted out every excuse under the sun to take the heat off.
Generally stunk up the field all this year before making a mockery of our captaincy and, finally, tanking in a disastrous last game.
No speculation required ... proven failure.
Time to take a punt on someone else.

Maybe it is time. But aim higher than Hastings. Please.

 

[TillLindemann]

Those calling for the banishment of Brooks will change their tune once Hastings has made half a dozen appearances

Hastings may not be the answer but Brooks definitely isn't.

But it’s such a low bar to be backing Hastings. I’d get it if people were pushing the club to sign an established NRL halfback, like if we had signed Reynolds, I’d get the excitement. But people are genuinely excited by Hastings and think he’ll turn the club around. And now Gildart is being talked up. It’s nuts.

I love it....
Hastings has been telling anyone with a set of ears (or eyes) how much he wants to be back in Australia... coupled with there's a lot more successful / financial teams than us that have been screaming for a Halfback for more than a while now
- But still he's in the Super league...
Why?
The Broncos (Top 4 successful teams in the last however long) ran a 30 something yr old bloke who never really played halves and hadn't played NRL in a decade rather than look to recruit him... There's teams running out kids to get swallowed in struggling teams.

I hope he swims, and swims well.... But this has sink written all over it.

He hasn't actually been in Super League that long, one season at Salford where he absolutely killed it, and then he was snapped up by Wigan where he's now finishing just his second season. And we've wanted him since at least last year. He has not set a foot wrong since he's been there, on the field or off it.

 

[bigsiro]

I think its as clear as day that Hastings is gonna be the halfback next season the club may say he's going to be a ball playing lock but that's like an elephant wearing a dress its just not gonna happen. So who would you rather have be halfback Hastings or Brooks ?

Surely Hastings is going to be halfback. So rather, the question is what to do with Brooks.

All of our main criticisms have to do with the fact that Brooks is not an effective halfback.

As much as I think he is a liability and that we should be ending the Brooks era, I'm trying to be realistic.

Will he be dropped, moved on, or go to a bench role? I just don't think this will happen.
Can he move to hooker? Maybe. I wouldn't write it off, but I doubt it will happen.
Can he be a 5/8? This is more likely I feel.

He'll have no pressure to run the attack, won't be first choice 6th play kicker, won't need to control the game, won't be criticised for not executing in critical moments.

As long as he HAS to be here, so long as he is not wearing 7 then I guess that's the best we can hope for.

 

[Geo]

We should have retired the Number 7 when Tommy passed..

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Is there even a difference between 6 and 7 anymore. I struggle to see it.

 

[Krammy]

I think its as clear as day that Hastings is gonna be the halfback next season the club may say he's going to be a ball playing lock but that's like an elephant wearing a dress its just not gonna happen. So who would you rather have be halfback Hastings or Brooks ?


Surely Hastings is going to be halfback. So rather, the question is what to do with Brooks.

All of our main criticisms have to do with the fact that Brooks is not an effective halfback.

As much as I think he is a liability and that we should be ending the Brooks era, I'm trying to be realistic.

Will he be dropped, moved on, or go to a bench role? I just don't think this will happen.
Can he move to hooker? Maybe. I wouldn't write it off, but I doubt it will happen.
Can he be a 5/8? This is more likely I feel.

He'll have no pressure to run the attack, won't be first choice 6th play kicker, won't need to control the game, won't be criticised for not executing in critical moments.

As long as he HAS to be here, so long as he is not wearing 7 then I guess that's the best we can hope for.

Serious question - could Brooks be a 13? His defence is up to it. Is he big enough? Cam Murray is not that big - neither is Connor Watson. Murray is a gun. I would be interested what other people think.

 

[mike]

I think its as clear as day that Hastings is gonna be the halfback next season the club may say he's going to be a ball playing lock but that's like an elephant wearing a dress its just not gonna happen. So who would you rather have be halfback Hastings or Brooks ?


Surely Hastings is going to be halfback. So rather, the question is what to do with Brooks.

All of our main criticisms have to do with the fact that Brooks is not an effective halfback.

As much as I think he is a liability and that we should be ending the Brooks era, I'm trying to be realistic.

Will he be dropped, moved on, or go to a bench role? I just don't think this will happen.
Can he move to hooker? Maybe. I wouldn't write it off, but I doubt it will happen.
Can he be a 5/8? This is more likely I feel.

He'll have no pressure to run the attack, won't be first choice 6th play kicker, won't need to control the game, won't be criticised for not executing in critical moments.

As long as he HAS to be here, so long as he is not wearing 7 then I guess that's the best we can hope for.

Serious question - could Brooks be a 13? His defence is up to it. Is he big enough? Cam Murray is not that big - neither is Connor Watson. Murray is a gun. I would be interested what other people think.

Yes, yes and yes. I’ve been saying that for months now. He would kill it at lock. Doesn’t have to lead or make too many decisions and can play his natural game. I think he would be devastating there.

 

[TheDaBoss]

Is there even a difference between 6 and 7 anymore. I struggle to see it.

6 is scared of 7 because 7 8 9


Ill show myself out

 

[earl]

Can he move to hooker? Maybe. I wouldn’t write it off, but I doubt it will happen.
Can he be a 5/8? This is more likely I feel.
He’ll have no pressure to run the attack, won’t be first choice 6th play kicker, won’t need to control the game, won’t be criticised for not executing in critical moments.
As long as he HAS to be here, so long as he is not wearing 7 then I guess that’s the best we can hope for.

I don't buy this line. To me he makes the team if he is good enough. If not he doesn't make the team.

I'm not convinced Hastings gets the 7 role either. I think it'll be Brooks and Hastings in the halves to start the season and then we see how it goes. Madden hasn't looked any better than Brooks and Doueihi is out.

I don't see Brooks as a dummy half. I think Liddle and Simpkins are both better. Maybe he can be a running half but I don't see how that is any different from what we've seen in the past. Maybe he can be an interchange player.

My opinion though is we shouldn't be finding him a spot but rather using him as it suits us. If he doesn't make our best team it's professional sport.

 

[Alex Seyfarth's #1 Fan]

I think its as clear as day that Hastings is gonna be the halfback next season the club may say he's going to be a ball playing lock but that's like an elephant wearing a dress its just not gonna happen. So who would you rather have be halfback Hastings or Brooks ?


Surely Hastings is going to be halfback. So rather, the question is what to do with Brooks.

All of our main criticisms have to do with the fact that Brooks is not an effective halfback.

As much as I think he is a liability and that we should be ending the Brooks era, I'm trying to be realistic.

Will he be dropped, moved on, or go to a bench role? I just don't think this will happen.
Can he move to hooker? Maybe. I wouldn't write it off, but I doubt it will happen.
Can he be a 5/8? This is more likely I feel.

He'll have no pressure to run the attack, won't be first choice 6th play kicker, won't need to control the game, won't be criticised for not executing in critical moments.

As long as he HAS to be here, so long as he is not wearing 7 then I guess that's the best we can hope for.

It's time to move Brooks to 6. He's always been a 6 who every coach plays at halfback. Doueihi will be gone for the start of the season, so it's a good time to do it.

 

[wet tiger coloured bird]

everyone looking down on superleague substandard. can hastings superleaque team beat our current nrl team?

 

[GNR4LIFE]

everyone looking down on superleague substandard. can hastings superleaque team beat our current nrl team?

50-50

 

[Russell]

Those calling for the banishment of Brooks will change their tune once Hastings has made half a dozen appearances

Hastings may not be the answer but Brooks definitely isn't.

But it’s such a low bar to be backing Hastings. I’d get it if people were pushing the club to sign an established NRL halfback, like if we had signed Reynolds, I’d get the excitement. But people are genuinely excited by Hastings and think he’ll turn the club around. And now Gildart is being talked up. It’s nuts.

Don't think anyone is deluded enough to think Hastings will be a messiah. They are more hoping that he turns out to be half decent.

There are a number talking up how good he is in ESL and how he’s going to be a leader and a take charge sort of guy. Sure, he might take charge. Still doesn’t mean he’ll be good enough.

Doesn't mean he won't either.