Have we got this all wrong ??

[newtiger]

Happy look at the Bulldogs without a decent half back,
zero attack.
You would need at defensive team that doesn't concede a single point every game.
Most of the problems with our defence is more about very poor defensive reads, players rushing out of the line, staggered defensive lines etc:
Hopefully some of these problems can be coached out of the team with a proper strategy.
Time will tell.

The problem is , that in two years, that hasn't been coached out of them

We had Kidwell as the defensive coach for the last 2 years, now he's gone we'll see if it can change.
Any player that makes NRL level should know how to tackle, the most important part is the defensive plan.

 

[newtiger]

The team is pretty good,we just need a very experienced centre who plays consistently week in and week out and another bloody Gareth Ellis…..!!!!

That's correct TT most people here know we need an aggressive second rower, and a good centre.

 

[hammertime]

If a player stays from longevity, there is more cap available to keep them here. Even though it hasn't worked so far, developing long term players will give us a slight edge with the cap.

Sign ted, then Moses, then woods and see if brooks will follow. He seems to me like one that might stay because of mates, rather than money. He loves the Tigers too.

 

[jadtiger]

Happy look at the Bulldogs without a decent half back,
zero attack.
You would need at defensive team that doesn't concede a single point every game.
Most of the problems with our defence is more about very poor defensive reads, players rushing out of the line, staggered defensive lines etc:
Hopefully some of these problems can be coached out of the team with a proper strategy.
Time will tell.

The problem is , that in two years, that hasn't been coached out of them

We had Kidwell as the defensive coach for the last 2 years, now he's gone we'll see if it can change.
Any player that makes NRL level should know how to tackle, the most important part is the defensive plan.

I could be wrong but i thought Kidwell was here for more than 2 years.He is definately no loss

 

[goldcoast_tiger]

Happy - I have been thinking along the same lines.

Defence makes up 50% of a game of RL. Given that, it amazes me that Brooks and Moses problems in defence doesn't seem to affect their market value. It is going to cost us well in excess of $1m to retain them beyond next season. And if we do retain them we still have the problem of how we cover them in defence.

It is worth considering not retaining one of them - my preference would be Brooks. In that case we could play Moses at 1/2 and get a solid defensive, no frills 5/8\. I was thinking Mapasone may fit the bill by 2018, (although I note that Balmain Boy had some less than complimentary things to say about him recently, and BB has a pretty good feel for the kids coming through). In any event, we would save money to devote to other priority areas and improve our defence.

Sure we sacrifice some attacking potential, but we have still have Moses, Teddy, ET, Woods and Liddel that can ball play, so we still have attacking threats across the park.

The

You can bet that no club will be interested in taking both Brooks and Moses together, because of their defensive weaknesses that you spoke about.
The Top clubs can sometimes afford to have two Problems in defence, if they are consistently at the top of their game in attack.
Both of our players still aren't consistently good overall ( and rarely both good on the same day)
Maybe with a better partner for each of them ,it would see them playing a more consistent game on a regular basis, but I think we are the only club that would still play them together, as they seem to be accepted here , no matter how they play.
I can't see any other NRL club accepting that

 

[Flippedy]

We definitely need a better defensive structure, but I don't think we necessarily have to go out and buy a heap of better defenders. Surely now Kidwell has gone, one of these other coaches can step in and get the some sort of decent defensive line happening and get the team playing and defending as a unit. These blokes can tackle, they just need to learn how to do it in unison as a team.

I have high hopes that the Idris/Simona centre pairing will be a success, I just don't know who they plan to play on the left wing next season - I would have Hunt, but it will probably end up being Rankin and that is our weak link, imo.

Dean Whare is off contract at the end of next year, I would definitely make a play for him and perhaps also Dale Finucane to tighten things up the forwards. We may have to sacrifice Brooks to get these two, but we should still be able to keep Tedesco, Moses and Woods. We still need to have some attacking brilliance left in the side Happy, otherwise we'll end up like St George! 😱pen_mouth:

 

[Fumbles]

If a player stays from longevity, there is more cap available to keep them here. Even though it hasn't worked so far, developing long term players will give us a slight edge with the cap.

Sign ted, then Moses, then woods and see if brooks will follow. He seems to me like one that might stay because of mates, rather than money. He loves the Tigers too.

Of course Brooks will stay where else can you miss 10 tackles each week and still keep getting picked in first grade.

 

[diedpretty]

If I was part of recruitment I'd be focussing on players who were maybe the 4th or 5th best in their position , blokes who are just missing out on SOO and top line NZ players , blokes who aren't missing football at crucial times of the year

I reckon targeting England is a good option. There has been a good success rate with English forwards in recent years, even Mike Cooper was actually pretty bloody good for the Dragons.

Yep i would go after John Bateman - left side backrower solid defender and runs good lines. Played well in the Four Nations. I know Canberra have been after him but he squashed any talk of moving to NRL. Maybe the money wasn't good enough.

 

[happy_tiger]

Happy look at the Bulldogs without a decent half back,
zero attack.
You would need at defensive team that doesn't concede a single point every game.
Most of the problems with our defence is more about very poor defensive reads, players rushing out of the line, staggered defensive lines etc:
Hopefully some of these problems can be coached out of the team with a proper strategy.
Time will tell.

The problem is , that in two years, that hasn't been coached out of them

We had Kidwell as the defensive coach for the last 2 years, now he's gone we'll see if it can change.
Any player that makes NRL level should know how to tackle, the most important part is the defensive plan.

Its more about make good reads , % reads , and using common sense

A few blokes just leave me scratching my head

Its not the coaches , if the players were doing the same things wrong every time you could blame the coaches

I know the game has changed a lot , but there were golden rules in defence and we at times just throw them out the window , yet other clubs still follow them generally

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Your looking too far ahead Happy… If we are lucky enough to snag all 4, it should have a roll on effect that see's signing good defensive players much easier. [The Melbourne scenario]

From what I have heard about our revenue streams over the past 2 years, we are in a strong position moving forward. Signing these boys should bring more Corporate Dollars, followed by players 'wanting' to play at the Tigers for the first time in a long time.

Signing these boys [Teddy, Moses, Brooks & Woods] probably wont win us a premiership tomorrow, but it is an important building block to signing the right players you talk about. Once the squad is built right and we start play finals regularly, we will be the position to win premierships.

 

[TCL]

Happy look at the Bulldogs without a decent half back,
zero attack.
You would need at defensive team that doesn't concede a single point every game.
Most of the problems with our defence is more about very poor defensive reads, players rushing out of the line, staggered defensive lines etc:
Hopefully some of these problems can be coached out of the team with a proper strategy.
Time will tell.

The problem is , that in two years, that hasn't been coached out of them

We had Kidwell as the defensive coach for the last 2 years, now he's gone we'll see if it can change.
Any player that makes NRL level should know how to tackle, the most important part is the defensive plan.

Its more about make good reads , % reads , and using common sense

A few blokes just leave me scratching my head

Its not the coaches , if the players were doing the same things wrong every time you could blame the coaches

I know the game has changed a lot , but there were golden rules in defence and we at times just throw them out the window , yet other clubs still follow them generally

Happy, I think the coach's have a lot to do with it. The statement that coaches don't miss tackles is true, 100% true. But it's the coaches job to teach the player how to read the attack and defend accordingly. If the player is not capable of reading the play or making tackles after all the coaches efforts, then IMO he is not a FG player and again it's the coaches job to cut him from the team or provide that player with further coaching.

Sure this raises issues relating to selection depth and recruiting but again the coach has an input in that. The club coach selects the team each week and the players in the positions he thinks is going to get the job done for that game. If they loose then the buck stops with him. A coach cannot disconnect him self from the players mistakes and the results. It's a team sport and the coach is the head of the team.

 

[Tiger_Watto]

Interesting debate TCL… Agreed the coach cant seperate himself from players errors/functions, but sometimes the coach has no choice but to play players when he might prefer others.

The ability to drop players is very restricted these days due to injury & 2nd tier going to players like Aloiai who played the whole year in NRL, but not part of our Top 25 Contracted Players. [Not sure if this changed with upgrades throughout the year?]

2nd Tier is a very important area I hope the club has looked at for the 2017 season. Maybe then we may see more players dropped for poor performances?

 

[supercoach]

You would like to think as our young and inexperienced players get older they will get defensively stronger and without looking at the stats I would imagine they are missing the bulk of the tackles or at least causing some of the space that others have to try and defend. Also as these kids get older they get a bit smarter when to roll the dice, so you would hope turn overs are reduced.

I agree in principle that a great defensive team will usually beat a great attacking team, but I think the Storm model is the way to go and that is a great defensive unit that has the fire power to take advantage of their defensive.

Anyway time will tell but 2017 for a lot of players will be make or break year and that alone should push them along…lots of contacts across 16 clubs up for grabs come 2018

 

[TCL]

Interesting debate TCL… Agreed the coach cant seperate himself from players errors/functions, but sometimes the coach has no choice but to play players when he might prefer others.

The ability to drop players is very restricted these days due to injury & 2nd tier going to players like Aloiai who played the whole year in NRL, but not part of our Top 25 Contracted Players. [Not sure if this changed with upgrades throughout the year?]

2nd Tier is a very important area I hope the club has looked at for the 2017 season. Maybe then we may see more players dropped for poor performances?

Watto, your right it is a juggling act. Yep look at Liddle, I'm sure JT would have liked to have him play a few more games this year but couldn't.

We have it easy we sit back in our armchairs and make all sorts of statements knowing that we don't have to deliver and we are not accountable.

 

[happy_tiger]

Your looking too far ahead Happy… If we are lucky enough to snag all 4, it should have a roll on effect that see's signing good defensive players much easier. [The Melbourne scenario]

From what I have heard about our revenue streams over the past 2 years, we are in a strong position moving forward. Signing these boys should bring more Corporate Dollars, followed by players 'wanting' to play at the Tigers for the first time in a long time.

Signing these boys [Teddy, Moses, Brooks & Woods] probably wont win us a premiership tomorrow, but it is an important building block to signing the right players you talk about. Once the squad is built right and we start play finals regularly, we will be the position to win premierships.

We won a premiership and we couldn't attract the right players despite having heaps of talent at our disposal

What's going to change or be different now

I'd much rather we pay overs for some fully proven pigs than Moses and Brooks

If you get the right forward pack assembled the 6 and 7's will want to come here

And someone mentioned the Dogs , Hodgkinson leaving was a real spanner in the works , I think that really threw their plans out the window

I'd be over the moon if we could achieve what the Dogs do virtually every season

 

[upthetigers]

I'd be over the moon if we could achieve what the Dogs do virtually every season

I wouldn't. Every year I think they'll go alright, but aren't legitimate premiership contenders. I want a team that can win a premiership. If that means a few bad years so be it but we've had those!!

 

[jadtiger]

Your looking too far ahead Happy… If we are lucky enough to snag all 4, it should have a roll on effect that see's signing good defensive players much easier. [The Melbourne scenario]

From what I have heard about our revenue streams over the past 2 years, we are in a strong position moving forward. Signing these boys should bring more Corporate Dollars, followed by players 'wanting' to play at the Tigers for the first time in a long time.

Signing these boys [Teddy, Moses, Brooks & Woods] probably wont win us a premiership tomorrow, but it is an important building block to signing the right players you talk about. Once the squad is built right and we start play finals regularly, we will be the position to win premierships.

We won a premiership and we couldn't attract the right players despite having heaps of talent at our disposal

What's going to change or be different now

I'd much rather we pay overs for some fully proven pigs than Moses and Brooks

If you get the right forward pack assembled the 6 and 7's will want to come here

And someone mentioned the Dogs , Hodgkinson leaving was a real spanner in the works , I think that really threw their plans out the window

I'd be over the moon if we could achieve what the Dogs do virtually every season

There are about 5 clubs that always seem to go well donkeys storm roosters dogs and eagles it is rare if they dont make the top 8.This means that there are 11 clubs fighting for 3 spots so it is not an easy equation.To put it simply we have to improve and quickly or i feel we will lose our best prospects. i dont think that money alone is the factor which keeps players, i believe that they want to play in teams which have a realistic chance of being in the gf consistently.