We've won 4/5 and now your gonna point the finger at the coach if we lose this game for selection problems??? Sheensy will pck 17 players that can do the job, if those players cannot…it's not his fault! I know sheens will put 110% into the preperation, he only needs his players to come through! If ritzy comes out and scores a hattrick, moors makes 150m, or lapina kaufusi makes a comeback and kicks the sinning feild goal will u be there saying "great coaching, excellent selections"???
It is now when Tim Sheens needs to stand up and be counted
- Thread starter Balmain_Bug
- Start date
southerntiger
New member
@supercoach said:
This is my concern. That being said, it is not a sufficient excuse to keep knocking back consistent quality.
TheSunTanSuperman
New member
"The player picked MUST be Davis".
HAHAHAHAHA!!!, Give yourself a bloody uppercut, Bug.
HAHAHAHAHA!!!, Give yourself a bloody uppercut, Bug.
Balmain_Bug
New member
@TheSunTanSuperman said:
It wont be too effective, I dont have much of a punch on me . . . . . .
why? Do you think Davis is no good? Do you think Brown is better?
The salary cap is not an issue. Fonz said on 2SM we are about $400k under.
BB I agree with some of your points..especially Payless…he has been a waste of money so far!!!..and why don't the young guns get a go?? mataka for example??..Fitzy is a waste, Payless is over rated, Moors has shown nothing, Brown is stop gap...so I can live with him, Daniella is sub standard...Flannagan and Lote are the only off season signings to shine.
Mona_Lolesi
New member
It's like you expect all 17 players to be match winners!
Mitch Brown has done little wrong. It's unlikely you would blood new talent on away games in Canberra and Nth Qld over someone with NRL experience.
For years and years I have read countless names that are getting "robbed" of their chance to play first grade.
Even when they leave the lower grades they rarely even end up at another club.
At the end of the day, most players get promoted from under 20's than from state cup.
State cup seems to be somewhere you go if you turn up late to training and that's about it.
Mitch Brown has done little wrong. It's unlikely you would blood new talent on away games in Canberra and Nth Qld over someone with NRL experience.
For years and years I have read countless names that are getting "robbed" of their chance to play first grade.
Even when they leave the lower grades they rarely even end up at another club.
At the end of the day, most players get promoted from under 20's than from state cup.
State cup seems to be somewhere you go if you turn up late to training and that's about it.
Balmain_Bug
New member
@Mona Lolesi said:
Mona Lolesi, I wish to officially declare, that you know <big>**ABSOLUTELY NOTHING**</big> about Rugby League in NSW.
There is a real risk picking lower grade players …... thats why Tim is reluctant to do it. The standard between State Cup and NRL is like comparing chalk to cheese. I watched Ben Barba playing for C'bury on Sat night. He went well for a while but went missing in action in the last 10 minutes. His coach said he was fatigued and really struggled.
The likes of Lazarus and Akeripa may look good in an otherwise ordinary competition but its another matter entirely that they will be able to handle the step up into NRL. Especially week after week.
The likes of Lazarus and Akeripa may look good in an otherwise ordinary competition but its another matter entirely that they will be able to handle the step up into NRL. Especially week after week.
TheSunTanSuperman
New member
@Balmain Bug said:
What the hell has Brown got to do with it? Your talking about replacing PAYTEN with Davis, remember?
Balmain_Bug
New member
@TheSunTanSuperman said:
Sure,
Alzheimers hasn't kicked in quite yet . . . .
Payten is a back rower right?
He is out injured right?
Davis is now a back rower right?
I can tell you, he is in better form than any back rower from Wests, BRET and NYC.
That is why, with Payten injured, I would like him to be replaced by Davis.
Now if Davis is not in the top 25 it wont matter.
We are $400,000 under the top 25 salary cap.
The only way it is an issue is if WT dont want to spend the extra money of match payments etc.
Footy_Head_Goodness
New member
I agree with the sentiment in your post but not some of your comments. No one on the forum can agree who the 17 should be so how can Sheens get it right in the eyes of everyone. He's made a lot of mistakes in previous selections in my opinion, mainly last year, but he has us winning games and after last weekend i have a little more faith back in Sheens.
Mitch Brown hasnt done a lot wrong. I think people are overly harsh on him. He has potential. He is biggish and fastish so he is okay in my books.
Asking to have Payton outted takes a lot of credibility out of your post. You are barking up the wrong tree there mate. Payton will have a spot in this 17 all year. Especially now that we have lost some creativity in the halves.
Cant agree more regarding Fitzy but bagging him being in the team has been done to death. He shouldnt be there. Everyone knows this. Sheens needs to make this change.
Mitch Brown hasnt done a lot wrong. I think people are overly harsh on him. He has potential. He is biggish and fastish so he is okay in my books.
Asking to have Payton outted takes a lot of credibility out of your post. You are barking up the wrong tree there mate. Payton will have a spot in this 17 all year. Especially now that we have lost some creativity in the halves.
Cant agree more regarding Fitzy but bagging him being in the team has been done to death. He shouldnt be there. Everyone knows this. Sheens needs to make this change.
Balmain_Bug
New member
What I am saying is that positions aside, Davis is a much better player than Brown. You can even put Davis on the wing if you like and he would outplay brown.
Pritchard and Davis have outplayed Daniela and Brown there entire careers.
Pritchard and Davis have outplayed Daniela and Brown there entire careers.
@Balmain Bug said:
Perhaps,but your original argument was to replace Payten and then you question others who would disagree with you who is better Davis or Brown?
Are you suggesting that its between Davis & Brown to replace Payten? I am glad that Sheens picks the teams and not you :wink:
Glenn
Who sees Davis as a centre FWIW
TIGERS
Well-known member
@Balmain Bug said:
EVERY week is the time for the so called 'Fonz' to stand up and be counted. Him and any player who ever pulls on a Wests Tigers jumper! It's completely futile to suggest that so much hinges on one single game. I felt inclined to suggest something similar about last weeks game… thank god the Mods didn't post it because I was dead wrong... I ate humble pie last Saturday night and enjoyed every piece.
If you had asked me late 2009 (during our winning streak), if Sheens could pick a Tigers team that would beat the Cowboys in Townsville... WITHOUT picking Taniela, Galloway, Gallant, Lui and Moltzen... I would've told you it couldn't be done. Again I would've been dead wrong. But Sheens did it. He even named Fitzhenry in a starting side. Who'd have thought eh.
I don't know enough about Football to make presumptuous claims about who should play where...and who shouldn't. The thing that is DEAD OBVIOUS when it comes to the Tigers is that we struggle to perform at our best week in week out. I honestly think it is that simple. Anything else is fairly irrelevant. Its an Emotional/Cultural problem rather than a Tactical/Technical one. If we played somewhere close to our best every week we would be unstoppable. Almost every expert in league has admitted this.
I often wonder what Tim Sheens actually does in the lead up to a game to get our players fired up... to get them believing in themselves... to make his Team want to smash their bodies and put it all on the line week in week out. To give it everything they have got. Does he give them a stirring speech? Does he make bold gestures? Is it something consisting of a White board and power point presentation? Does he prefer to talk to the whole team? or Individual Players?
One of the best defensive performances of our history was last year against the Melbourne Storm. Before that match the The Tigers were given a pre-game speech by Arthur Beetson. Here is what Robbie said after the match...
**_"When a guy of Artie Beetson's stature speaks, you tend to listen," Tigers captain Robbie Farah said.\
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"He came in and told us it's not always (about) the team of champions. You go out there and you work for each other and work for your mate next to you.\
\
"A name on a piece of paper doesn't really matter."_**
In 2005 before playing the Broncos in the finals, Paul Harragon came in and talked to the team. Here is what Skando said at the time.
**_"He told us never to give up and obviously the 1997 grand final was mentioned because the Knights were down and out and they picked themselves up and won the game," Skandalis said. " A lot of the young guys here watched that game and remembered it, and I think that's what we all did today - we dug deep."_**
Sheens also had Noel Kelly come in for our first ever finals game against the Cowboys.
**_A pre-match pep talk from former test prop Noel Kelly helped settle the Wests Tigers' nerves before they thumped North Queensland 50-6 in the NRL's first qualifying final at Telstra Stadium._**
Here are 3 examples of Former Legends motivating the team before a game. 3 gutsy unforgettable wins. Seeing this happen so often makes me wonder... Does Tim Sheens ever do that? Can he do it on his own? Does he know how?, Does he like doing it?, Do our players respond to him doing it?.... Of course the million dollar question is...
**Can he do it week in week out?**
Its entirely possible that this is what the main problem and weakness is when it comes to Tim Sheens and the Tigers. I also think that Tim Sheens is completely aware of this. That is why he has only signed on for another year. His technical knowledge and skills as a modern football coach are unsurpassed. Our team is fast, fit, strong and skillful. Like all good clubs we have experienced clubmen and talented juniors.
I think Sheens is experiencing something very similar to what Phil Gould went through at the Roosters. Gould certainly knew how to coach, he knew how to win, he had the players, but he just couldn't get them to fire at the right time. Graham Murray took over Gould's team and got them to a Grand Final in his first year. In 2002 a guy like Ricky Stuart (who is all heart and no brains when it comes to coaching) made them World Beaters. Even good old Tommy Raudonikis was able to get the Magpies into the finals for a couple of seasons after it had gone pear shaped for Warren Ryan.
Of course thing that makes it difficult to argue about Sheens is the fact that he has already won us a Premiership! I haven't forgotten this and I never will. There is also the possibility that I could be dead wrong about everything I have just written. It could be the players who lack heart... not Sheens. There are some things we will never know.
Except that calling him "Fonz" 3000 times in one paragraph isn't very funny.
Some great points. Good post, howeverI dont think there would be a single coach in the NRL that could "inspire" by a rousing speech week in week out. They simply see the guy 6 days a week and that sort of familiarity detracts from the inspiration. He is like their Dad, they are more likely to listen to the same points from a fresh personal perspective. Any coach including Sheens is about instilling a core of skills, fitness and attitude that equip and INDIVIDUAL to perform his role within a TEAM. It is then up to that individual to perform.
Glenn
Glenn
TIGERS
Well-known member
@Glennb said:
Lol. What i meant by week in week out was… Can Sheens get the tigers to give 100% week in week out. Not could he give a rousing speech week in week out. That would be stupid. Badly written stuff on my part....
@TIGERS said:
I dont disagree with anything you have said, but from my point of view….the first 5 games of this year, taken as a whole is the best we have looked since the back end of 2005 (bear in mind we looked average at the start of 05). I am willing to have a wait & see approach.
Also the fact that three of our 4 wins have involved BIG come from behind efforts means that the committment IS there, it is just a matter of consistency and being up for the 80 mins.
Glenn
Glenn
