Jock Madden #244

[stevied]

Totally agree. Passing game is the concern from left to right and lack of long kicking.
At the end of the day he is a good reserve grade half doing a good job filling in. He is another Sean O'Sullivan. A technically good organising half but not first grade leader in a full strength team.
Talk of him displacing Luai or Doobie is ridiculous. Latu is way in front of him also as a half and especially as a benchie.

He has been playing soundly but he really has some limitations. Adam Reynolds-lite.

I agree with some of your points but I think, overall, the positives far outweigh the negatives. Regarding the long kicking, Madden was regularly under pressure and forced to rush as the Eels were out to cut his time. As others have pointed out, Douehi is not a half in a good, cohesive team and does not possess some of the assets you list for Jock. Also, some of Douehi's passing in the last two games has been deplorable. He'd be the first to admit it.

 

[stevied]

Now 3 questions I have about next Sunday,
1). can we come up again in 6 days after such a hard physical and mental game ?
2). can we break the CSS hoodoo ?
3). can we fill the joint ?

Yes, yes, yes (for once).

 

[Milky]

Clock in,
Lock in
And Jocks in !

Last ditch efforts on almost every try (almost saving one), yelling instructions whilst in the middle of making a tackle, kicking game and control 💯

 

[Lukic]

I want to see a couple more games but he is making a compelling case to remain in firsts. Don't forget he had a few great games filling in years ago before regressing. But this is some of the best genuine halfback play we've had in a long, long time.

He organises super well. Steers us around the pitch. While we didn't blow them away on the scoreboard, how many poor sets did we have directionally? 1, 2 max. Every set well was well structured and we were consistently getting over the advantage line. Kicking game was quite smart too.

He also runs the ball to the line, engages defenders and then passes. His passing could be a bit crisper, yes, but he'd also benefit from Luai at second receiver who's much better suited there than Doueihi (and of course with To'a and May in the centres who are both better strike options than Turuva and Makasini, for now anyway).

This is a great problem to have. When is the last time we've had several injuries and yet our backups have come in and played like first graders? Normally our first graders play like backups!

 

[Milky]

Yes, yes, yes (for once).

Can we break the 3 game hoodoo?

Although an unearthed stat from last night is it is our first time winning back-to-back away games since round 15-16 in 2019

 

[Tom Shines]

Now 3 questions I have about next Sunday,
1). can we come up again in 6 days after such a hard physical and mental game ?
2). can we break the CSS hoodoo ?
3). can we fill the joint ?

4) Can they win three in a row?

Lot to overcome …

Madden followed up Warriors game with a big game … I have confidence in his goal kicking…

He has a few limitations in his game …like a few others in the team…but I’m looking real hard to keep him in the starting side

 

[Buttface]

That kick from 50m to the corner that turned the winger around and he tackles him at 8m was a great play. Can't be dropped.

What about the short kick off for Sam that got us the ball back then kicks one from 45m, when the game is on the line. And the dropout to Sam late in the game. And his cross field kicks to the backs.
He kick shit out of parra.
Can’t be dropped.

 

[SeanT]

Totally agree. Passing game is the concern from left to right and lack of long kicking.
At the end of the day he is a good reserve grade half doing a good job filling in. He is another Sean O'Sullivan. A technically good organising half but not first grade leader in a full strength team.
Talk of him displacing Luai or Doobie is ridiculous. Latu is way in front of him also as a half and especially as a benchie.

He has been playing soundly but he really has some limitations. Adam Reynolds-lite.

Disagree abit. Yes passing needs to be crisper but he is only 2 games in. Still getting used to the team.

His long kicking game is as good as most bar Moses,Cleary and Burton etc. I think API and Luai when he returns needs to kick more to not have a target on himself everytime. He's kicking 50m on the full which is enough if you have a fast play the ball on the last.

He plays direct and is a great organiser. Takes pressure off API I've noticed. Think he should remain and Douhie to centre. Makes defence better on the dges and gives another target for a bomb on that side.

 

[stevied]

What about the short kick off for Sam that got us the ball back then kicks one from 45m, when the game is on the line. And the dropout to Sam late in the game. And his cross field kicks to the backs.
He kick shit out of parra.
Can’t be dropped.

Thanks for highlighting all those specific kicks Butt. There were many critical examples that had a significant impact on the game. Who else in the squad could have done that? Nitpickers point out a lack of long kicking game but, really, he's been so valuable to the team, the past 2 weeks.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Has done what’s asked of him so far. Been blessed to have been in the right places at the times and capitalised. Saw a comment that some teams might come sniffing for him. We have no reason to let him go next year. He’s proving to be great depth at a minimum. The make up of the bench is going to be really interesting once Luai comes back. Maybe it will mean Latu playing more mins in the middle 🤔

 

[Odessa]

Has done what’s asked of him so far. Been blessed to have been in the right places I at the times and capitalised. Saw a comment that some teams might come sniffing for him. We have no reason to let him go next year. He’s proving to be great depth at a minimum. The make up of the bench is going to be really interesting once Luai comes back.

He hasn't got a well rounded game but his strengths have been the Tiger's weakness for awhile

One has to wonder if good old Tim Sheenuis philosophy of having the best 17 player's in the club play on game day regardless of position?

Would you pick AD or Seyfart on the bench?

 

[Halbrowne61]

Last ditch efforts on almost every try (almost saving one), yelling instructions whilst in the middle of making a tackle, kicking game and control 💯

Definitely MOTM imo.

 

[bbobb]

i think I heard AD saying in an interview that after moving around the backline, Benji gave him a position (half) and he feels settled.
Not sure what happens when Luai returns but I reckon it will make for some interesting conversations. (I believe Jock to be the most natural halfback so would think it’s a shift somewhere for AD).

 

[simonsatiger]

I think peps are getting carries away with old Jock.

Don't get me wrong he's most probably the best back up half in the comp and we are very lucky to have him.

But Jerome walks straight back into the side with AD.

 

[Jolls]

Jock is doing a good job; but, he isn't shining as brightly as some on here think. I expect that many overate Jock's preformances as we haven't had a decent half for so long. There is a difference in the quality of what Jock has been producing for us and the leading halfbacks. That is not to say that with more reps and some hard work he can't progress.

It is the small differences in quality that make a difference on the scoreboard. The fundamentals are fine: he finds the grass with his kicks when required, he digs into the line, has a reasonable passing game and brings his supports onto the ball (for the most part). On the downside. His kicking is reasonably accurate, certainly the best in the club, but he does not always land it where it needs to be. He needs to land it on top of the defender so Tino/Bula have the momentum to outleap the opposition - a couple of times Tino has been in the right place only for him to look silly as the ball goes over his head. This is all about reps - but the Cleary's, Moses' amd Reynolds of the world nail this time after time - and this skill equals points on the scoreboard. On the other side of the coin his defence just isn't there - it could be a bit of rust and adapting to a new system. His defence agaisnt Parra certainly improved over last week, but he got himself into the perfect position to defend both Simonsson's and Twidle's first try and missed the assignment by going too high and over the top of the player instead of driving them over the touchline. I think a FG half should nail those defensive moments as getting that right would have saved 8 points!

Don't get me wrong Jock is playing well - but I think we need to be a bit more critical of his performances; there is definitely room for improvement and I think he would agee.

 

[Viva_Zapata]

Disagree abit. Yes passing needs to be crisper but he is only 2 games in. Still getting used to the team.

His long kicking game is as good as most bar Moses,Cleary and Burton etc. I think API and Luai when he returns needs to kick more to not have a target on himself everytime. He's kicking 50m on the full which is enough if you have a fast play the ball on the last.

He plays direct and is a great organiser. Takes pressure off API I've noticed. Think he should remain and Douhie to centre. Makes defence better on the dges and gives another target for a bomb on that side.

They said Douhie's groin issue was due to the demands of running more as a half, and he's not kicking because of it. Makes an easy case to move him to the centre where we have injuries.

 

[wstigers11]

Jock is doing a good job; but, he isn't shining as brightly as some on here think. I expect that many overate Jock's preformances as we haven't had a decent halso for so long. There is a difference in the quality of what Jock has been producing for us and the leading halfbacks. That is not to say that with more reps and some hard work he can't progress.

It is the small differences in quality that make a difference on the scoreboard. The fundamentals are fine: he finds the grass with his kicks when required, he digs into the line, has a reasonable passing game and brings his supports onto the ball (for the most part). On the downside. His kicking is reasonably accurate, certainly the best in the club, but he does not always land it where it needs to be. He needs to land it on top of the defender so Tino/Bula have the momentum to outleap the opposition - a couple of times Tino has been in the right place only for him to look silly as the ball goes over his head. This is all about reps - but the Cleary's, Moses' amd Reynolds of the world nail this time after time - and this skill equals points on the scoreboard. On the other side of the coin his defence just isn't there - it could be a bit of rust and adapting to a new system. His defence agaisnt Parra certainly improved over last week, but he got himself into the perfect position to defend both Simonsson's and Twidle's first try and missed the assignment by going too high and over the top of the player instead of driving them over the touchline. I think a FG half should nail those defensive moments as getting that right would have saved 8 points!

Don't get me wrong Jock is playing well - but I think we need to be a bit more critical of his performances; there is definitely room for improvement and I think he would agee.

Agree with what you’re saying - though comparison to Nathan & Mitch is probably a bit harsh. He’s a back up half & is doing his assignment in that. Never gonna be those two players and wasn’t recruited to be

 

[Jolls]

Agree with what you’re saying - though comparison to Nathan & Mitch is probably a bit harsh. He’s a back up half & is doing his assignment in that. Never gonna be those two players and wasn’t recruited to be

100% and the comparison was simply to demonstrate the difference between what Jock is producing and what an elite half does. I only raised it as some have him as being the MOM when the reality is that he is playing better than what they are used to. Given the errors he played well as a half but was, in my opinion, well behind most of our forward pack - but Api and KPP in particular.

 

[Adam Doobie]

Jock is doing a good job; but, he isn't shining as brightly as some on here think. I expect that many overate Jock's preformances as we haven't had a decent halso for so long. There is a difference in the quality of what Jock has been producing for us and the leading halfbacks. That is not to say that with more reps and some hard work he can't progress.

It is the small differences in quality that make a difference on the scoreboard. The fundamentals are fine: he finds the grass with his kicks when required, he digs into the line, has a reasonable passing game and brings his supports onto the ball (for the most part). On the downside. His kicking is reasonably accurate, certainly the best in the club, but he does not always land it where it needs to be. He needs to land it on top of the defender so Tino/Bula have the momentum to outleap the opposition - a couple of times Tino has been in the right place only for him to look silly as the ball goes over his head. This is all about reps - but the Cleary's, Moses' amd Reynolds of the world nail this time after time - and this skill equals points on the scoreboard. On the other side of the coin his defence just isn't there - it could be a bit of rust and adapting to a new system. His defence agaisnt Parra certainly improved over last week, but he got himself into the perfect position to defend both Simonsson's and Twidle's first try and missed the assignment by going too high and over the top of the player instead of driving them over the touchline. I think a FG half should nail those defensive moments as getting that right would have saved 8 points!

Don't get me wrong Jock is playing well - but I think we need to be a bit more critical of his performances; there is definitely room for improvement and I think he would agee.

Eels v Wests Tigers​

• Dally M votes: Jock Madden 6, Kai Pearce-Paul 2, Jahream Bula 2, Junior Paulo 1, Adam Doueihi 1.

 

[wstigers11]

100% and the comparison was simply to demonstrate the difference between what Jock is producing and what an elite half does. I only raised it as some have him as being the MOM when the reality is that he is playing better than what they are used to. Given the errors he played well as a half but was, in my opinion, well behind most of our forward pack - but Api and KPP in particular.

Absolutely. Our forward pack ATM is a halves dream.