Lack of a game manager...

[ElleryHanley]

Looking at our last 15...we are on a historically bad run defensively. 26 plus for, effectively, four straight months worth of footy. Even the worst teams historically have been able to come up with one or two "heroic" defensive displays. But not us...15 straight games.

Thus the question...why?

Probably the biggest factor IMO is our kicking game...and thus field position...and thus, as much as I hate to say it, that comes back to Brooks.

Other packs get the luxury of repeat sets and time camped in the opp 20. Penrith, Storm, Souths, Parra...sometimes these packs get 5 mins straight camped down there. The forwards get a rest, only work is hit ups and decoy runs whilst their backs run most of the plays.

Our pack rarely get that 'rest'. Ours are normally sprinting back for restarts or having to defend teams coming at us from good position. They are normally on the back foot having bigs come at them up the guts. Working and working some more...

When was the last time we wore down an opp pack who had to fight off their line all game? How many times have our kicks landed on the opp 20 and given them easy field position? Why did we put up 'chip shots' for Tupou, the biggest winger in the game, to catch on the full and let the Rooster start in easy position? Where was the grubber into the in goal, forcing the Rooster bigs to work it back from right on their line?

Ask yourself this key question...and answer it honestly...

**When was the last time Brooksy controlled a game and pinned a team in the corners?**

Never?

I feel like this is why we are hitting a massive wall at around the 50 min mark each game. The team are running out of gas, the opp team are getting mins "off" that we rarely get and eventually we collapse.

It is like an NFL team where the QB never gets fourth downs and the D is constantly having to go back out there...even the very best D units over there collapse eventually.

We need someone to **pin teams in corners** / force drop outs and build constant pressure. We need a game manager. All of this is obvious, but almost every problem we have comes back to it...

**BTW not 'bashing' here...trying to be constructive. But there 1000 threads about what is going wrong. It all comes down to this one factor IMO. We have to address it.**

 

[TheDaBoss]

Weekly 5 threads ellery? 😁

Nah jokes anyway good post

 

[NT_Tiger]

Well it seems we have been discussing this for a long time with no change. From within our ranks, could Doueihi be the answer because I still don't think Brooks is capable of it.

 

[Madge]

It could even be something as simple as on the 4th tackle on their 40m line get it to either Brooks or Doueihi and chip it down to their 10m, chase hard and pin them down there. Get a repeat set, keep mounting pressue. It isnt that hard, it comes down to execution. Are they practicing enough?

Your role is simple if you understand how the game is played, sometimes I think to myself if these players know why they are doing something. Throughout the roosters game, the ball was given to Doueihi half the time to pull of a spiral and none of them worked, okay try something different. Build pressue first then these spiral kicks would work out because the opposition is under the pump, dont hope that it going to happen.

 

[weststigerman]

IMO Madden is the closest to that in the way he plays.

That said, he has major deficiencies in other areas of his game in both attack and defence at this stage.

Fingers crossed with consistent game time in state cup, he'll be a different player by the end of the year. That's more in hope than confidence.

 

[ElleryHanley]

Weekly 5 threads ellery? 😁

Nah jokes anyway good post

Haha 🙂 I tried to stay away...🙂

Jokes aside...I honestly feel almost everything comes back to this one issue. Most things have been addressed by Madge since he came here...deadwood largely gone / some great young recruits / some real leaders brought in...

But just like in the NFL, you can't go anywhere without a great QB / game manager.

It is glaring at this point.

I don't rate Madden, but I'd be willing to give him the 7 spot for the season if ALL he did was put some nice grubbers / short kicks into the opp in goal areas.

And, all this pains me, as I am a long time Balmain man...followed Brooksy since Holy Cross.

 

[balmain boy]

Brooks used to be able to kick long and to the corners. But now he can't. His game has flipped in recent years. From a great attacking half, with organisation skills but weak defence and needed to run more, to now a half with no attacking or organisational skills but a strong defensive game and who runs 20 times a game.

 

[Madge]

IMO Madden is the closest to that in the way he plays.

That said, he has major deficiencies in other areas of his game in both attack and defence at this stage.

Fingers crossed with consistent game time in state cup, he'll be a different player by the end of the year. That's more in hope than confidence.

He is, his kicking game is top shelf. His passing is of low standard though and you need that to be creative and have options as a halfback. I hope he realises that and can receive a defense crash course off Brooks. Like you said more hope than confidence but if he can recognize his deficiencies then he can make it.

 

[ElleryHanley]

It could even be something as simple as on the 4th tackle on their 40m line get it to either Brooks or Doueihi and chip it down to their 10m, chase hard and pin them down there. Get a repeat set, keep mounting pressue. It isnt that hard, it comes down to execution. Are they practicing enough?

Your role is simple if you understand how the game is played, sometimes I think to myself if these players know why they are doing something. Throughout the roosters game, the ball was given to Doueihi half the time to pull of a spiral and none of them worked, okay try something different. Build pressue first then these spiral kicks would work out because the opposition is under the pump, dont hope that it going to happen.

Yes mate, it is hard to understand just 'why' they have not been able to manage it.

Look at how much the Titans have improved since Jamal Fogarty came in. He tries really, really hard...but he is not an overly skilled player. But what he does do well is manage their game plan.

One, borderline, first grade half has come in...managed their kicking...managed their game plan...and suddenly they have won six of their last seven and look like a footy team.

That is how much difference a game manager can make.

 

[BZN]

It could even be something as simple as on the 4th tackle on their 40m line get it to either Brooks or Doueihi and chip it down to their 10m, chase hard and pin them down there. Get a repeat set, keep mounting pressue. It isnt that hard, it comes down to execution. Are they practicing enough?

Your role is simple if you understand how the game is played, sometimes I think to myself if these players know why they are doing something. Throughout the roosters game, the ball was given to Doueihi half the time to pull of a spiral and none of them worked, okay try something different. Build pressue first then these spiral kicks would work out because the opposition is under the pump, dont hope that it going to happen.

[/QUOTE]

I noticed when kicks were put through...our guys **didnt**
run hard to pin them down.
Compared to how the Roosters chased...our guys were just plain pathetic.

 

[Telltails]

Would love to have a Gutherson. Drives me nuts, but a competitor through and through. We have no one like him and every great team needs one.

 

[old_man_tiger]

Brooks used to be able to kick long and to the corners. But now he can't. His game has flipped in recent years. From a great attacking half, with organisation skills but weak defence and needed to run more, to now a half with no attacking or organisational skills but a strong defensive game and who runs 20 times a game.

I read that excellent summary and I wonder if he is overcoached.

Edit. Not just by Madge, but too many voices over too short a period giving conflicting instructions.

 

[Harvey]

I do not think it is the kicker that pins a team in the corner. They help through the kick finding open space, or hanging long enough to allow the chases to be on top of the opposition when they get to the ball.

Regardless of how good or bad the kick is, if there is no committed chase, you are not pinning anyone anywhere.

Even if you make the 1st tackle 2 metres out from the line (which we did last week through handovers rather than kicks) if you don't control the ruck and move up as a line you aren't pinning anyone on their own line.

Our line speed has been a problem for years. When the opposition are making 70m per set you cannot control the game.

 

[Madge]

Also think I should note the absence of any sort of kicking game from Liddle. Farah has been at training to teach them, surely he would've given some tips about kicking from dummy half he was a specialist at it.

 

[TrueTiger]

It could even be something as simple as on the 4th tackle on their 40m line get it to either Brooks or Doueihi and chip it down to their 10m, chase hard and pin them down there. Get a repeat set, keep mounting pressue. It isnt that hard, it comes down to execution. Are they practicing enough?

Your role is simple if you understand how the game is played, sometimes I think to myself if these players know why they are doing something. Throughout the roosters game, the ball was given to Doueihi half the time to pull of a spiral and none of them worked, okay try something different. Build pressue first then these spiral kicks would work out because the opposition is under the pump, dont hope that it going to happen.

I noticed when kicks were put through...our guys **didnt**
run hard to pin them down.
Compared to how the Roosters chased...our guys were just plain pathetic.

I can tell all of you the main problem with our team at the moment.....

Lack of RESPECT for.....
1 themselves and teamamtes...
2 opposition teams
3 most of all the ball....

I wont make this about Luke,he is one of the factors ,when he kicks and he is on song the team revels in it,when he isnt they hang their heads....thats the first answered....
Most times when we have been in good attacking positions,silly penalties,drop balls or offloads not being on kill play and momentum...thats the second answered....
When the team has the ball in hand and are on the front foot,instead of planning and scheming with each other,some try the desperate play to try and go forward which in turn they panic and a silly error is made,to win a game of rugby league a good majority of POSSESSION wins the game,to many handovers through panic play brings this team undone...thats the third answered...

I have been an avid RL player and fan for many years,these things I have pointed out seem to me to be the core of our problems,the players have to get the basics right,particularly with the new rules changes....but hey blame the coach or anybody else,the players should know what to do and how to do it ...they are professional and on big money....
JUST MY TWO CENTS WORTH....

 

[Deleted member 3518]

It could even be something as simple as on the 4th tackle on their 40m line get it to either Brooks or Doueihi and chip it down to their 10m, chase hard and pin them down there. Get a repeat set, keep mounting pressue. It isnt that hard, it comes down to execution. Are they practicing enough?

Your role is simple if you understand how the game is played, sometimes I think to myself if these players know why they are doing something. Throughout the roosters game, the ball was given to Doueihi half the time to pull of a spiral and none of them worked, okay try something different. Build pressue first then these spiral kicks would work out because the opposition is under the pump, dont hope that it going to happen.

I noticed when kicks were put through...our guys **didnt**
run hard to pin them down.
Compared to how the Roosters chased...our guys were just plain pathetic.

I can tell all of you the main problem with our team at the moment.....

Lack of RESPECT for.....
1 themselves and teamamtes...
2 opposition teams
3 most of all the ball....

I wont make this about Luke,he is one of the factors ,when he kicks and he is on song the team revels in it,when he isnt they hang their heads....thats the first answered....
Most times when we have been in good attacking positions,silly penalties,drop balls or offloads not being on kill play and momentum...thats the second answered....
When the team has the ball in hand and are on the front foot,instead of planning and scheming with each other,some try the desperate play to try and go forward which in turn they panic and a silly error is made,to win a game of rugby league a good majority of POSSESSION wins the game,to many handovers through panic play brings this team undone...thats the third answered...

I have been an avid RL player and fan for many years,these things I have pointed out seem to me to be the core of our problems,the players have to get the basics right,particularly with the new rules changes....but hey blame the coach or anybody else,the players should know what to do and how to do it ...they are professional and on big money....
JUST MY TWO CENTS WORTH....

Yep , well said . It’s for me , the only real positive with blooding kids , that there will be a renewed sense of pride in the jersey , but if they continue to get smashed then the cycle will start all over again .

 

[Harvey]

Also think I should note the absence of any sort of kicking game from Liddle. Farah has been at training to teach them, surely he would've given some tips about kicking from dummy half he was a specialist at it.

Yes usually at the expense of what the rest of the team was expecting. :grin:

 

[nrlsurvivor]

IMO Madden is the closest to that in the way he plays.

That said, he has major deficiencies in other areas of his game in both attack and defence at this stage.

Fingers crossed with consistent game time in state cup, he'll be a different player by the end of the year. That's more in hope than confidence.

He is, his kicking game is top shelf. His passing is of low standard though and you need that to be creative and have options as a halfback. I hope he realises that and can receive a defense crash course off Brooks. Like you said more hope than confidence but if he can recognize his deficiencies then he can make it.

Good point. I can’t remember a time when he’s thrown a sweet cut out ball. His short passing game is ok though.

 

[Needaname]

IMO Madden is the closest to that in the way he plays.

That said, he has major deficiencies in other areas of his game in both attack and defence at this stage.

Fingers crossed with consistent game time in state cup, he'll be a different player by the end of the year. That's more in hope than confidence.

He is, his kicking game is top shelf. His passing is of low standard though and you need that to be creative and have options as a halfback. I hope he realises that and can receive a defense crash course off Brooks. Like you said more hope than confidence but if he can recognize his deficiencies then he can make it.

Good point. I can’t remember a time when he’s thrown a sweet cut out ball. His short passing game is ok though.

Need to go after Alfie Langer. It’s no surprise the Broncos have gone backwards at the exact same time they ruled to not allow coaching occur on the field.
Yes I get it. I wish Brooks would execute his kicks better. But man, surely they complete all this at training? They must be getting a pass Mark or better there, or is Madge just a very good poker player. Holding a press conference in confidence and then kicks stones and hangs his head after the cameras off?

 

[TYGA]

It won’t happen but signing Adam Reynolds at halfback, Brooks to 5/8, Douihei to centre and Talau on the left wing the team improves massively.

Without a half back we will crumble no repeat sets, attacking kicks are creating 7 tackle sets and not try’s, shanked kicks cost metres.

The service from hooker is also poor Simpkin has to force his way into the team.