@jirskyr said:@Mighty Tiger said:It's interesting observing the forum or over a decade, the one consistent thing most supporters would always call out was that we lack defense or structure, struggled to recruit players of quality and lacked squad depth. People were getting frustrated with our lack of effort and performance and consistency.
The second though the strategy to move us into a structured side with a heavy focus on defense occurs the focus for most part of the forum is let the kids Chuck the ball around.
The strategy of the dynamic game we played for the last decade was a fluke in 2005 given we couldn't come close to replicating that since with mind you the same skilled players.
Some players have now left, 2 coaches have gone by and now we have one that is willing to actually change things up and the first sign of things not going right people aren't happy.
JT and all the players kept saying during preseason that they didn't have finals as a goal this year, during the year even when they won a few didn't deviate from that either, yet people are surprised and furious about it.
The only way to snap out of that is to go on a journey, it was never about getting instant results especially not this year, because that hardly ever happens in any sport especially when the team is roughly the same as one the year gone by, but also because there actually is a plan and the team have actually bought into it.
It's frustrating for us fans and no doubt the game on the weekend was worse for the players, it's going to be interesting how we fair after the bye and what the rest of the season holds up for these kids and JT.
He shouldn't be judged yet, he should be reviewed at the end of the year but more importantly on the first chance he came get a squad of players he wants which will start next season. I'm willing to give him another 12mths in the gig before I get too critical of his tenure. Currently it's just frustration because I know how good kids like Moses and Brooks are and just want them to come out of their skin but also know they way they are playing currently it's clear they support JT so I will as well.
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Best post of this thread MT.
Firstly I think it is a mistake to call people "true supporters" or such terms, each person deals with footy and winning/losing in their own way. Anyone who posts on here must love Tigers enough to set up an account and spend time discussing the team with near-anonymous posters.
That preamble aside, MT has hit the nail on the head, regarding expectations. I don't know what some people's expectations are right now, other than that winning is all that matters (or at least lose pretty, what I am hearing just recently).
The Pearce and Lamb years were defined by wasted money, repeated fading out of finals contention and serious off-field incidents.
Sheens proved his strengths with club and political management and managed to meld some astute signings with some exceptional juniors, to breed an entertaining side that was able to win in an attacking-biased competition.
It is generally accepted that since 2005 coaches have devised very effective defensive structures and wrestling techniques to win competitions - your Bellamys and Haslers. Wests Tigers, brimming with attacking flair, have tried to go against grain and keep that attacking mentality alive, but every year in the last decade has seen us fall short at the last hurdle.
The TV has loved us, but it is heart-attack material and ultimately disappointing for supporters. Tigers have become known as a dangerous though often fragile side, that can't win in clutch situations.
So 2013 rolls around and people have had enough, they want a change - Sheens had a premiership-capable side for 2010-11 and failed to win, and his style did not appear to have changed with the times.
Potter comes in and tries to change the structure, the mentality of the team, and for short periods it appears to be working. But, if the media is to be believed, Potter finds himself unable to fully implement change without full board support, and with team conflict; Potter has been appointed too late in 2012 and has not been given enough free reign to really affect change. Benji goes, the Wests-Balmain merger shows big cracks, money remains a huge issue and the NRL ultimately step in.
So here we are in 2015, and almost everything has been overhauled. The board is different, the governance is different, plenty of players have been shed. We all agree that Pearce and Lamb and Sheens and Potter have not been able to get consistent results out of some fairly talented teams. We are still known, 10 years later, as a psychologically and often physically fragile team. We have had issues with injuries, experienced long losing streaks, and have always relied on attack to prevail, so long as we had a dry track and everything "clicked".
BUT BUT BUT BUT
We don't want a repeat of 2000-2014\. Or maybe we do, would you be happy with 1 premiership and only 2 other finals appearances in the next 15 years?
I don't think so. We want instead to be like the Storm, or Roosters, or Bulldogs: a team where players improve, who win more than half of their games, and who rebound from setbacks rapidly. A strong but flexible team that can win in adversity, rely on their structures, grind or press the attack button when necessary. I don't care if these teams have historically bent or broken the rules, I just want to know how we can emulate them.
So how do you make this happen? How do we stop being the basket-case team that doesn't quite know what to do with its own talent, doesn't quite know how to manage its money or achieve long-term success?
Well I reckon you start by getting a coach who has a clear long-term strategy, is not afraid of setbacks, and changes the club culture from the ground up. Taylor came in last year with a long-term plan that clearly impressed the WT board. We know he was not the early favourite, but he won people over with his vision. As a player he was crafty though physically limited, he has coached firsts before and achieved good results, and then spent quality time at a quality institution - the Roosters.
JT has come in and changed up the facilities, the injury management, the coaching staff, the dietary plans, the attacking formations and the defensive structures. He has made it fairly clear how he is going to structure the side, and which players are not in the long-term plans (or already let go).
11 games in, we've won 4 and lost 7\. Not great reading. However does this mean JT doesn't know what he is doing, or the strategy is wrong, or Tigers are heading in the wrong direction?
So many people are complaining right now "we know we need to fix defensive issues, but does that have to come at the expense of attack?" or "5 x 1-up and a midfield bomb, it is killing me to watch".
Well, what are your expectations? Do you truly think a brand new coach, with a halves combination of 20 years old, are going to win the comp in year 1 of a big rebuild? Do you think a team with regular choices like Sironen or Lawrence, or their replacements, are going to tilt for the title? Do you really think JT can turn Potter's teams of 15th and 13th place into a Top 8 side within less than half a season?
What expectations are these? Why do you think the team can be rebuilt on a defensive platform but still retain all their attacking flair, be let off the leash?
Because I've seen this 2015 team throw caution to the wind, and sometimes it's great (first 20 against Raiders, Dragons, 2 x 20 against Doggies, last 20 against Parra). Must most of the time, when the structure is set aside, we fall to pieces. We are still a team of capitulators and head-droppers, who force passes and take poor options. We rely on our own momentum but struggle to arrest the opposition's momentum.
We are still very much playing like the team that apparently JT does not want us to be. And after 11 rounds, according to many fans he has no idea, or he is all talk, or he doesn't know how to get the best out of this team.
Pearce could not, Lamb could not, Sheens mostly could not, Potter could not, and JT… well after 11 rounds let's throw him in with the previous lot and get ourselves a new coach? Or let's get JT to totally change his long-term plans and his game-day plans because we haven't won enough games with what is a fairly average and young team.
Expectations?
Probably longest post in history "jirskyr" - every paragraph a gem; just loved it and could not agree more.
