Moltzen is the best option at fullback and stop whinging

[Tigerdave]

It is important to put things in perspective. Tim Moltzen is coming back from a serious knee injury. This takes a significant time to recover from. Look at all the examples of players coming back from such surgery to prove that point.

Right….so it's best to put him in at fullback then? to help recovering right?

I agree with Sheens' selection of Moltzen at fullback and I hope he stays there. McKinnon is not the same player he was, Brown is good but doesn't have the same attacking options that Moltzen does and I think Meaney only looks like an average player in first grade. With Moltzen we have a ballplaying fullback with pace and an excellent kicking game.

Some people have different ideas on what a fullback should be doing first and foremost, attacking a bomb or a grubber is generally considered a good fullback attribute, willing to put the body on the line in doing it and the same in general defence. Moltzen doesn't do this. McKinnon does and we saw Brown only last week defending against kicks.

I think of the three halfbacks in contention for a first grade spot, Moltzen is the most able at fullback. I think the potential of having Farah, Lui/Miller, Marshall and Moltzen is better than anything we have seen at this club (including 2005). It will take time to workout the best way to utilise these players but it will work in the end because all the players are smart and creative footballers who play an attacking brand.

And Moltzen is much better as a halfback, where he should have been left to continue to build some cohesion in attack with Benji.

The weakness of Moltzen under the high ball and against the kick is a problem, but I believe he has the potential to improve in these areas. I think that bomb took an incredibly unlucky bounce for him last night. He is still an inexperienced player and will still make many mistakes.

Oh that's just great, now how long will this take? Shall we just give this a go for the entire year and hope he works out? like Morris at halfback?

The argument that he should develop in state league is shortsighted. There is a very large gap between top grade and state cup, I personally don't want him recovering from his knee injury in state league and getting used to the slower pace only to bring him into top grade and endure the period of time it would then take him to catch up to the pace of top grade. Leave him in top grade at fullback, back him and let him and the team adjust to the new role in the team.

Now that is shortsighted, if Sheen's grand plan was to have Moltzen as a fullback then he should have started him off in the State Cup as a fullback this year, not only to build up match fitness, but to build up confidence in the position. He's been tried before at the fullback spot in first grade and the result has been less than satisfactory.

People on here need to think about more then just one game at a time. Once again Sheens and team selections come up as an issue. Where was this discussion last week when he virtually did the EXACT SAME THING?

Except he didn't, we had McKinnon at fullback. Had we known at the beginning of the week that McKinnon was going to be out and Moltzen was going to be fullback, you would have seen a lot of discussion…..and not a lot of it good about Moltzen in the fullback spot. We've been down this road before.....

Once again the same three issues come up. Here is why the criticisms of Sheens are wrong:
1.Meaney needs to be on the bench because we need a back in case of injuries. There have been injuries to the backs in almost every game this year.
2\. We play and interchange small forwards with big front rowers because THAT IS OUR STYLE OF PLAY. That is why we play with such dexterity and speed. You all want to change this??? I hope not.
3\. Last night was a bad performance. how many of our performances have been at that level? Very few. Last night is evidence of how good a side we are and how well coached we are. Even with 8 first graders or so out, even when we are playing badly, even when we are playing away, even when the ref calls every god damn knock on by them in the play the ball a penalty against us and even up against a strong and desperate team we still only lost the game by a try in the final minute and were bloody unlucky not to win. AND YOU ARE ALL COMPLAINING? Cop the painful loss but put it in perspective.

1\. No he doesn't, we've had Miller on the bench in case of injuries and that should have been the case last night.
2\. Except we haven't seen much dexterity or speed this year, it's been rather conservative actually. The style has already changed, but we don't have the forwards on the bench to back that up and that showed last night.
3\. It was only a close game because the Titans are playing awful as well. Based on last nights performance, if we were against an in-form side, we would have been lapped.

 

[Tigerdave]

I was far more satisfied with the effort against the Roosters even though we lost by a lot more

 

[magpie_mania]

quite simple with brown at fullback moltzen at halfback and josh davis we win that game guaranteed.Then you would of had 3 players playing there natural positions instead sheens gave them the positional merry go round and we fell to pieces.Moltzen is no fullback.Brown and mckinnon certainly are.

 

[watersider]

Well done for posting something tangible Tigerdave.

I think the criticisms you make of Sheens selections ignore the fact that many changes made were based on injuries. For example, Miller coming off the bench to start was a result of McKinnon being injured. Hence, a new back was needed to replace Miller on the bench.

I think however that Moltzen at fullback is the long term plan and I agree with it. So, Sheens can't be shielded from criticism on that decision. Again though, I think that Moltzen's play at fullback will improve as he becomes more experienced there. Do you agree he's a talented player that should be in the 13? Or do you think he is only a solid player that would be handy off the bench? I suppose it comes down to that question.

I think he is far too good to leave out of the starting side and I think Lui earnt the number 7 last year, so I think the only solution is to play Moltzen at fullback because I think he wouldn't be as effective at centre and we have better players in that position. He will get better at fullback as he learns the position and as he gets more confident with his recovery.

Sheens persisted with Morris for too long. But, what other options were there? I don't think giving a player one season to improve in a position is too great an ask, but that depends on the player you are working with. Moltzen is worth persisting with, Morris was given too long.

I think our play this year is a result of all of the new combinations we have this year. You can't seriously expect a side to perform the same way when you lose Lote and Lawrence though. They open up the entire field when they are out there. Brown, Daniella and Latu are capable but are not top class and the attack usually falls flat when the bal gets to them. Its the exact opposite when lawrence and Tuquiri get the ball.

 

[watersider]

quite simple with brown at fullback moltzen at halfback and josh davis we win that game guaranteed.

speculation can't be proven. Many people were absolutely certain Blake Lazarus was an NRL star in waiting. Where is he now? Lets stick to what actually happened, rather than mention hypotheticals with absolute certainty.

 

[Kul]

Good question, where is he now????

*cue suspense jingle*
\
\
Posted using RoarFEED

 

[Tigerdave]

magpie pointed out the replacements, there was no need what so ever to break up the halves, which are far more important in my opinion than the fullback spot, which could have easily been covered by Brown who has done a good job in the past there.

Again, if Sheens really really wants Moltzen in as fullback, then he should be learning the trade in the lower grades, not in the top grade.

The new play has nothing to do with the injuries, we've gone for penalty goal on a few occassions this year rather than pressing the attack.

Moltzen should have stayed as halfback, Brown to fullback and Davis in at centre leaving Miller on the bench.

Continously making changes in the halves spot does not do the team any good.

Given our injuries, this is not the time to be experimenting with player positions.

 

[beachtiger]

It is important to put things in perspective. Tim Moltzen is coming back from a serious knee injury. This takes a significant time to recover from. Look at all the examples of players coming back from such surgery to prove that point.

I agree with Sheens' selection of Moltzen at fullback and I hope he stays there. McKinnon is not the same player he was, Brown is good but doesn't have the same attacking options that Moltzen does and I think Meaney only looks like an average player in first grade. With Moltzen we have a ballplaying fullback with pace and an excellent kicking game.

I think of the three halfbacks in contention for a first grade spot, Moltzen is the most able at fullback. I think the potential of having Farah, Lui/Miller, Marshall and Moltzen is better than anything we have seen at this club (including 2005). It will take time to workout the best way to utilise these players but it will work in the end because all the players are smart and creative footballers who play an attacking brand.

The weakness of Moltzen under the high ball and against the kick is a problem, but I believe he has the potential to improve in these areas. I think that bomb took an incredibly unlucky bounce for him last night. He is still an inexperienced player and will still make many mistakes.

The argument that he should develop in state league is shortsighted. There is a very large gap between top grade and state cup, I personally don't want him recovering from his knee injury in state league and getting used to the slower pace only to bring him into top grade and endure the period of time it would then take him to catch up to the pace of top grade. Leave him in top grade at fullback, back him and let him and the team adjust to the new role in the team.

People on here need to think about more then just one game at a time. Once again Sheens and team selections come up as an issue. Where was this discussion last week when he virtually did the EXACT SAME THING?
Once again the same three issues come up. Here is why the criticisms of Sheens are wrong:
1.Meaney needs to be on the bench because we need a back in case of injuries. There have been injuries to the backs in almost every game this year.
2\. We play and interchange small forwards with big front rowers because THAT IS OUR STYLE OF PLAY. That is why we play with such dexterity and speed. You all want to change this??? I hope not.
3\. Last night was a bad performance. how many of our performances have been at that level? Very few. Last night is evidence of how good a side we are and how well coached we are. Even with 8 first graders or so out, even when we are playing badly, even when we are playing away, even when the ref calls every god damn knock on by them in the play the ball a penalty against us and even up against a strong and desperate team we still only lost the game by a try in the final minute and were bloody unlucky not to win. AND YOU ARE ALL COMPLAINING? Cop the painful loss but put it in perspective.

This is a ridiculous post!

Moltzen isn’t and most likely will never be a quality fullback. He is potentially an outstanding 6 or 7 and a very capable centre but a fullback he isn’t. The fact that you have based his poor performance on coming back from a knee reconstruction doesn’t really hold any credibility based on his efforts at fullback last year when he showed the same tentativeness to attack the high ball or take on the defensive line. Added to this is his lack of support play around the ruck and inability to insert himself into the attacking structure.

I do agree with you that Brown also lacks this ability but his defence and ability to bring the ball back to the defensive line are the main reasons that he should have been put to fullback in place of Moltzen.

Moltz definitely needs to be in the team and find his feet again in the top grade but not at fullback, I think he would make a very good replacement at centre which will get him into a position where he can run the ball more which is his major strength.

 

[magpiecol]

Support play? insert himself in the attacking structure? top try scorer? goal kicker? natural fullback?

Moltzen:- no.

Mullaney:- yes.

 

[Marshall_magic]

Moltzen is a terrible fullback. He lets bombs bounce, his defence one on one is attrocious and his 4m kick returns are pathetic. I would like having him as a fulltime half or bench utility and maybe in the centres if we have injuries, but he is not a fullback. End of story. He wasn't a fullback in 2009 and he still isn't one now. McKinnon is 100 times the fullback Moltzen is, and guys like Brown, Ryan and Meaney are also leagues ahead of him at fullback.

 

[barra]

Moltzen is no more a fullback than Galloway is, you wouldn't move him there and expect him to become a great 1.

You've said nothing about why you think he isn't a fullback in this post and that is typical of many posts on here saying he isn't a fullback.

Yes he had a bad game yesterday but so did Benji Marshall. **Does Marshall's game on Friday prove he isn't a 5/8?** Do people not see that Moltzen is a talented footballer? Your arguments are all too shortsighted.

Marshall's game as 5/8 was tainted because he was doing some of Farah's work, who was doing some of Miller's work, who was in the position that Moltzen should have been playing in for that game. Instead of keeping a working combination with Farah-Moltzen-Marshall the entire structure was thrown in jeopardy when it could have been maintained by simply putting Brown to fullback and leaving Moltzen at half for now.

This match should have been a gimme, instead our selections gave a sucker an even break, and… well, look what happened.

Yes, Moltzen is a talented footballer and yes he is worth perservering with - and perhaps at fullback - but not in 1st grade right now, and not at the risk of the success of the team and him as a developing player.

 

[tigergirlz]

Moltzen at fullback - no.

 

[Brisbane_Tiger]

LMFAO at this thread…

Moltzen was horrible on Friday night but so was most of our team for the second half, lets move on to next week and hope wade mac is back.

 

[watersider]

Continously making changes in the halves spot does not do the team any good.

Given our injuries, this is not the time to be experimenting with player positions.

I actually agree. I'd much rather they try to keep the side as consistent as possible. But, how many times has Sheens done things that you think are crazy? And how many times have you been right? He never takes the conservative option and I think its brave to do what he is doing and I support his approach. I think his decisions has produced our attacking style of play. last night was a sample of how other teams play the game, and it was dull. I'm glad he takes risks and even though they don't always come off, many times they do.

He's been spot on with the development of Marshall, Farah, Lawrence, Gibbs, ayshford, tuaki, dwyer, heigno and improved payten, hodgson, prince, Richards.The only one whom he seemed to get wrong was Bronson (Lima had off field issues when he was with us). Yet after one loss and a couple bad performances we question him?

I'm arguing that we be patient, that we give Moltzen a chance at fullback and if we do that I think we'll see another top quality first grader. But, we'll wait to the end of the season to see who was right. I personally hope Moltzen is back in the #1 next week.

 

[tig_prmz]

Leave him in top grade at fullback, back him and let him and the team adjust to the new role in the team.

Sorry but this cracked me up. You want the team to adjust to Moltzen at fullback? Shouldn't individual players adjust to the team?

 

[CocaCola]

i have a feeling this thread was started by tim sheens

:laughing:

 

[watersider]

Leave him in top grade at fullback, back him and let him and the team adjust to the new role in the team.

Sorry but this cracked me up. You want the team to adjust to Moltzen at fullback? Shouldn't individual players adjust to the team?

That's right, it goes both way. Adjust the style to suit the players you have and adjust the players to suit the style. Doesn't happen instantly.

When you put Marshall in at 5/8 or Farah in at hooker you'd be stupid to maintain the gameplan you had before those players came into the side. Same goes for Moltzen at fullback. I'm not saying he doesn't have adjustments to work on as well though.

 

[watersider]

Yes, Moltzen is a talented footballer and yes he is worth perservering with - and perhaps at fullback - but not in 1st grade right now, and not at the risk of the success of the team and him as a developing player.

If you think that he is worth persevering with you'd be crazy to drop him to state league where he will only learn bad habits. Which half or fullback has improved from playing in the state league?

 

[tig_prmz]

Leave him in top grade at fullback, back him and let him and the team adjust to the new role in the team.

Sorry but this cracked me up. You want the team to adjust to Moltzen at fullback? Shouldn't individual players adjust to the team?

That's right, it goes both way. Adjust the style to suit the players you have and adjust the players to suit the style. Doesn't happen instantly.

When you put Marshall in at 5/8 or Farah in at hooker you'd be stupid to maintain the gameplan you had before those players came into the side. Same goes for Moltzen at fullback. I'm not saying he doesn't have adjustments to work on as well though.

There are 17 players in the side. What you are saying is, you want 16 of those players to adjust to the way Moltzen plays instead of picking the No.1 who adjusts to the style of play the other 16 have played in?

 

[Wagga_Tiger]

Moltz had a good game against Souths at halfback because thats what he is a half or 5/8 he is terrible at fullback not just last night but at times when he played there last year he showed no desperation to get to the ball.If he is our best option at fullback then we are screwed.
He may be a great ball player and all that other crap but he lacks those other little traits that are needed to be a fullback, like catching bombs and putting his body on the line to get to a ball first.
I think he needs to be in the 17 but not at fullback to many better options.