426Tlgerland
Well-known member
Either way , where is he , seems to have dropped of the face of the earthHunt is a benchy, not a starter.
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Either way , where is he , seems to have dropped of the face of the earthHunt is a benchy, not a starter.
He’s been running on for reggies.Either way , where is he , seems to have dropped of the face of the earth
I understand where you are coming from - but if he is simply moving the halves one wider to give them time and space to play he is being wasted and we will get carved up because we will have even less go forward that we did last week. The defence will simply slide off him to provide inside pressure and still dominate the defensive sets. Sure it opens up opportunity back on the inside - but the drop off plays etc is what they are aiming for us to do so we don't get it wide to use our attacking threats.I think its more about changing our approach to how we handle the first 20. Recently we have been bashing ourselves through the middle and getting dominated. The key to Doueihi at lock early on will be to provide some space so we don't get bashed. It should mean more work for our egde backrowers helping us get momentum. Its a shame Sam is out, but we cant control that. Turuva, Skelton, Staines and May need to work hard early in our sets.
Hopefully Benji is thinking this, becasue if he has moved AD in the middle to start the game and we simply continue to play straight up the middle with no variation then we are stuffed.
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I understand where you are coming from - but if he is simply moving the halves one wider to give them time and space to play he is being wasted and we will get carved up because we will have even less go forward that we did last week. The defence will simply slide off him to provide inside pressure and still dominate the defensive sets. Sure it opens up opportunity back on the inside - but the drop off plays etc is what they are aiming for us to do so we don't get it wide to use our attacking threats.
There are plenty on here, and several commentators, that though AD's performance as a ball distributor towards the end of the Wahs game was great. I don't subscribe to that at all - he simply shifted the point of attack wider for the halves because we were completley dominated in the middle. Was he more silky than Twal would have been, sure but any competent player that coudl catch and pass could perform that role.
He needs to play the role that Wade Graham did for the Sharks and the Yeo does for Penrith. Provide a ball playing link that takes plays deep enough to keep the defenders engaged. In order to this he has to be a threat - not just a ball distributor. Ths means, especially in the opening exchanges, that he does take on the line, or is there in support of May/Twal for the offload down the centre corridor, that he is sweeping around the ruck and providing options.
I see his role in the opening 10-15 as defending in the middle with high work rate and line speed, takeing some tough carries, particularly early in sets, and tidying up around the ruck, supporting quick play-the-balls, and acting as an additional prop when needed to gain yardage. Once we have established our rhythm he then transitions into operating as a third playmaker at first or second receiver to distribute to the edges or halves depending on the situation. The key for him is to use his skills to identify compressed defensive lines and shift the ball accordingly or pick up inside outside runners to hit holes created by indecision in the defensive line. He needs to dig into the line to pose a threat and, where practicable, straighten the defensive line before passing.
That is not what he did when he played at 13 against the Wahs - but it is what we need.
I just responded to @poopy_diaper in the Wests Tigers Faithful here in relation to our system and where we sit in the development phase. I think we need to develop a system of systems to drag ourselves out of the mud. The playing roster is just one part of that system - given the way you analyse the game you may find it interesting.Yeah I think thats the point mate, his ability to shift the ball a little wider while condensing the middle. We have had our front rowers trying to do it all year and they are hopeless at it. AD didnt do anything amazing at all, he just did it better then what our front rowers can and it made a big difference to our attack. This week will be very interesting. Jury is most certainly still out on AD and Benji. Sunday will be interesting viewing, but I expect the Titans do do us easily
Actually a good team on paper IMO it still surprises me they are as bad as they are.The Gold Coast team appears to be at full strength.
On paper they look mighty imposing 👀
Yeo was a half in his junior days. He's now 195cm and 106kg. What an asset to have taking a hard carry and QPTB, 1st receiver in shape allowing halves such as Cleary and Romey wider off the ruck with more space, and a big body in the middle of the ground in defence with the engine he has.
Doueihi has the height at 190cm, but is 10kg lighter. Needs to be willing to have his nose busted every game for his move to #13 to be a success for the team. This week is a good start with Tino, Fotuoka, etc who now have someone else other than Api to run towards.
Great summary Jolls, thanks for sharing! Agree with the above. I just think that discipline is so important for us. High completions, quick line speed, great kick chase & win the collision. Get that right & we should have the points to win it!Wests Tigers V Titans - Analysis and game plan
Ok, this game is a must win otherwise we will be in a fight for the spoon. So here is the assusment of us V them and what I think is needed for us to come out on top.
Enemy – Titans
Strengths
Weaknesses
- On paper the Titans have a stronger and more physical pack. Tino, Fotuaika, RCG, Fifita and Fermor will provide plenty of go forward and aggressions.
- Powerful edge threat from Brimson on both sides of the park. Campbell and Brimson both offer strike down the middle – especially towards the end of both halves. Foran provides a steadying hand with his experience and will provide a constant threat in the red zone with his short kicking game.
- Inconsistent execution; frequently make errors under pressure. They are brittle mentally so maintaining pressure through high set completion will be essential.
- The size of their pack means they are less mobile and susceptible to being split down the middle due to fatigue.
- Edges and outside backs are vulnerable points, we should exploit this through early shifts. This will also contribute to fatigue in their less mobile forward pack.
Good Guys - Wests Tigers
Strengths
Weaknesses
- Ruck control. Api has been below his best in recent weeks but provides leadership, creativity, and ruck control, which should give us the edge in tempo and direction.
- Edge threats. Latu F and Luai bring spark and unpredictability in attack and pose a threat on both edges. Playing AD as a ball playing 13 has the potential to move both halves wider later in the sets to provide time and space to execute.
- Home ground advantage. Playing at the Eighth will provide energy provided the crowd can be bought into the game
Opportunities
- New and developing edge combination. Taylan’s first game in FG is a new edge combination that has the potential to be exploited in defence and be clunky in attack. Sukkar had bolstered the edge defence but the loss of Sam F significantly affects our effectiveness in attack. New combinations are vulnerable to fast, powerful wide runners like David Fifita or the speed of Khan-Pereira/Brimson.
- Inconsistent execution under pressure. Frequent errors or penalties in crucial moments (seen multiple times this season) reduce our ability to close out tight games.
- Developing spine. Week two of a new halves combination. Taruva also filing in at Fullback. While talented they are still developing their game management and tactical kicking games.
- AD at 13. AD is unproven at 13 with 20 minutes under his belt late in the game v Warriors. While his all handling skills are proven his ability to defend in the middle in the early exchanges and his effectiveness in taking up the dirty hits when required is unproven.
Threats
- Titan's Fragility. Gold Coast are prone to errors and defensive misreads under sustained pressure. A high completion rate will induce fatigue and open up opportunities in attack.
- Exploit edge defence. Latu in particular has the ability to pull apart the edge defence if given time and space. Combined with Luai’s unpredictability there is potential for us to unlock the Titan’s edges.
- The Eighth. Sunday afternoon at Leichhardt is perfect for building momentum by getting the crowd into the game. A combination of physicality in defence, a high completion rate and early shifts has the potential to lift our intensity.
- Titans' pack. Tino Fa’asuamaleaui, Fifita, RCG and Fotuaika can generate big metres and offloads, breaking defensive lines if fatigue sets in.
- Individual brilliance from Titans backs. Brimson and Khan-Pereira, when he is bought into the game, can create long-range tries off broken play or turnovers. Kick chase must be on point.
- Lack of discipline under pressure. We can be ill disciplined under pressure resulting in a high error rate and un-necessary penalties. Api and Luai need to maintain calm and execute the game plan with discipline.
- Complacency or overconfidence. Facing the bottom of the table team side could result in us underestimating them, leading to a sudden ambush if we don’t maintain intensity.
Game Plan
This is the way I see us playing - of course we would not be telling our forward to maintain parity - they need to go out there trying to win the collision and the momentum battle. I can't see us doing that given what we have on offer in the middle - we can probably gain some dominance later in the game sw we need to be patient to win.
- Maintain early parity in the middle. We must fight to control speed off the play-the-ball. Api/Hope have to smell fatigue in the Titans middle and expose slow middle defence.
- Patience. This game will not be won early. We need to be patient and execute the plan - if we are being stifled we need to be creative te enable us to get back to playing our game.
- Pressure Titans execution. Force the Titans to play down the middle with line speed and a compressed middle then move the forwards around with early shifts. Fatigue = fragility.
- Astute Kicking Game
- Brimson is not a big fullback – kick to contest.
- Kick to the corners. Make them bring the ball back form deep in the corners using their smaller backs. Kick early to fatigue the pack.
- Titans are likely to try and emulate the Warriors by shutting down our ability to shift. Be prepared to target high line speed/up and in defence through long kicks early to keep them on their heels or using short kicks through the line mid field.
- Let the ball sing. Our strength in attack early in the game is in our edges and outside backs. Early shifts pit our strengths against their weaknesses and runs the forward pack around. This will provide attacking opportunities up the middle later in the game. We can’t afford to be forced into playing down the middle as we were last week.
How do you see it playing out?
My real concern is that we lack the ability to adapt when our game plan is being compromised by the opposition. It really stood out to me in the Warriors game where we turned the ball inside with drop off plays time and time again. It is a legitimate option to counter the defence, but when they are defending in that way as part of their game plan we need to react in order get back to playing our style. We clearly lack leadership at that level. Having said that NSW couldn't do it either so maybe it has been coached out of them with more science being bought into the game.Great summary Jolls, thanks for sharing! Agree with the above. I just think that discipline is so important for us. High completions, quick line speed, great kick chase & win the collision. Get that right & we should have the points to win it!
🐯💪
The game has coached most “play what you see “ out of players right down to junior club levelMy real concern is that we lack the ability to adapt when our game plan is being compromised by the opposition. It really stood out to me in the Warriors game where we turned the ball inside with drop off plays time and time again. It is a legitimate option to counter the defence, but when they are defending in that way as part of their game plan we need to react in order get back to playing our style. We clearly lack leadership at that level. Having said that NSW couldn't do it either so maybe it has been coached out of them with more science being bought into the game.
The science is good and will get you ca competitive side, but winning is more art than science.
I agree with the play what you see side of the house but it is more than that in my eyes. The game is pretty scripted now as there is plenty of science used to analyse who is doing wht and how etc. What really stood out last week was the Warriors had done their homework (same as WLD v NSW game 3) and knew that we wouldn't want to play them down the middle. Our plan was to shift early and run them around.The game has coached most “play what you see “ out of players right down to junior club level
I understand playing percentages but it’s not very entertaining unless you’re team is winning
We really only starting to hear commentators talk about playing what’s in front now so I think there’s hope in 5 years that it will filter into the game
Panthers vs dogs was very boring to watch imo. Yes they are essentially coached the same but adding neither side changed and just waited for the other to blinkThe game is pretty scripted now
💯These guys are FG footballers so they know the strengths and weaknesses of different defensive structures so they should have adapted
Indicates that he seen it and possibly react sooner down the trackInstead it took Benji to try an unlock it from off the field.
Probably ingrained coaching is my point. Not necessarily benji but Im not in the know to verifyThis isllustrates a few things - you hit on one on the head - overcoaching. But it is just as likely that we haven't rehearsed how to counter this type of defence (poor coaching), or we didn't realise we were being forced into playing into the Warriors hands (dumb
The game has been payed for over 100 years. Jack Gibson revolutionalised the game when he started the move towards a more scientific approach. I'm sure he didn't envisage ti becoming so scripted. I can't see another revolution - more evolution. Ciraldo is certainly pushing away from big forwards with his approach but I don't think it is the answer to winning the big dance.Panthers vs dogs was very boring to watch imo. Yes they are essentially coached the same but adding neither side changed and just waited for the other to blink
💯
Indicates that he seen it and possibly react sooner down the track
Probably ingrained coaching is my point. Not necessarily benji but Im not in the know to verify
Playing percentages and wait for the other team to stuff up.
It’s hard to coach tendencies out.
A young cliff lyons probably wouldn’t come through any systems nowadays
My concern is forward packs that win the ruck metres allow the time and room for their backs to score the points.Wests Tigers V Titans - Analysis and game plan
Ok, this game is a must win otherwise we will be in a fight for the spoon. So here is the assessment of us V them and what I think is needed for us to come out on top.
Enemy – Titans
Strengths
Weaknesses
- On paper the Titans have a stronger and more physical pack. Tino, Fotuaika, RCG, Fifita and Fermor will provide plenty of go forward and aggression.
- Powerful edge threat from Brimson on both sides of the park. Campbell and Brimson both offer strike down the middle – especially towards the end of both halves. Foran provides a steadying hand with his experience and will provide a constant threat in the red zone with his short kicking game.
- Inconsistent execution; frequently make errors under pressure. They are brittle mentally so maintaining pressure through high set completion will be essential.
- The size of their pack means they are less mobile and susceptible to being split down the middle due to fatigue.
- Edges and outside backs are vulnerable points, we should exploit this through early shifts. This will also contribute to fatigue in their less mobile forward pack.
Good Guys - Wests Tigers
Strengths
Weaknesses
- Ruck control. Api has been below his best in recent weeks but provides leadership, creativity, and ruck control, which should give us the edge in tempo and direction.
- Edge threats. Latu F and Luai bring spark and unpredictability in attack and pose a threat on both edges. Playing AD as a ball playing 13 has the potential to move both halves wider later in the sets to provide time and space to execute.
- Home ground advantage. Playing at the Eighth will provide energy provided the crowd can be bought into the game
Opportunities
- New and developing edge combination. Taylan’s first game in FG is a new edge combination that has the potential to be exploited in defence and be clunky in attack. Sukkar has bolstered the edge defence but the loss of Sam F significantly affects our effectiveness in attack. New combinations are vulnerable to fast, powerful wide runners like David Fifita or the speed of Khan-Pereira/Brimson.
- Inconsistent execution under pressure. Frequent errors or penalties in crucial moments (seen multiple times this season) reduce our ability to close out tight games.
- Developing spine. Week two of a new halves combination. Taruva also filling in at Fullback. While talented they are still developing their game management and tactical kicking games.
- AD at 13. AD is unproven at 13 with 20 minutes under his belt late in the game v Warriors. While his ball handling skills are proven his ability to defend in the middle in the early exchanges and his effectiveness in taking up the dirty hits when required is unproven.
Threats
- Titan's Fragility. Gold Coast are prone to errors and defensive misreads under sustained pressure. A high completion rate will induce fatigue and open up opportunities in attack.
- Exploit edge defence. Latu in particular has the ability to pull apart the edge defence if given time and space. Combined with Luai’s unpredictability there is potential for us to unlock the Titan’s edges.
- The Eighth. Sunday afternoon at Leichhardt is perfect for building momentum by getting the crowd into the game. A combination of physicality in defence, a high completion rate and early shifts has the potential to lift our intensity.
- Titans' pack. Tino Fa’asuamaleaui, Fifita, RCG and Fotuaika can generate big metres and offloads, breaking defensive lines if fatigue sets in.
- Individual brilliance from Titans backs. Brimson and Khan-Pereira, when he is bought into the game, can create long-range tries off broken play or turnovers. Kick chase must be on point.
- Lack of discipline under pressure. We can be ill disciplined under pressure resulting in a high error rate and un-necessary penalties. Api and Luai need to maintain calm and execute the game plan with discipline.
- Complacency or overconfidence. Facing the bottom of the table team could result in us underestimating them, leading to an ambush if we don’t maintain intensity.
Game Plan
This is the way I see us playing - of course we would not be telling our forwards to maintain parity - they need to go out there trying to win the collision and the momentum battle. I can't see us doing that given what we have on offer in the middle - we can probably gain some dominance later in the game, but we need to be patient to win.
- Maintain early parity in the middle. We must fight to control speed off the play-the-ball. Api/Hope have to smell fatigue in the Titans middle and expose slow middle defence.
- Patience. This game will not be won early. We need to be patient and execute the plan - if we are being stifled we need to be creative to enable us to get back to playing our game.
- Pressure Titans execution. Force the Titans to play down the middle with line speed and a compressed middle then move the forwards around with early shifts. Fatigue = fragility.
- Astute Kicking Game
- Brimson is not a big fullback – kick to contest.
- Kick to the corners. Make them bring the ball back from deep in the corners using their smaller backs. Kick early to fatigue the pack.
- Titans are likely to try and emulate the Warriors by shutting down our ability to shift. Be prepared to target high line speed/up and in defence through long kicks early to keep them on their heels or using short kicks through the line mid field.
- Let the ball sing. Our strength in attack early in the game is in our edges and outside backs. Early shifts pit our strengths against their weaknesses and runs the forward pack around. This will provide attacking opportunities up the middle later in the game. We can’t afford to be forced into playing down the middle as we were last week.
How do you see it playing out?