Our attack

Half the time the sweep plays arent even that, its just catch - pass, catch- pass, repeat till you run out of room
 
The only try we did score, the Saints player made a mess of Moses' grubber and Naiqama just happened to be there.
 
@ said:
No structure, no plan, no options, no questions. When your 4th tackle option on attack is often Sue ambling at you one out it doesn't put much doubt into the defensive line. Defend when Tedesco and/or Moses runs at the line and job done. In three games this year we've failed to score a try from our own steam. Three out of five. Seven out of ten halves without a try that didn't rely on an opposition error. It's simply not good enough.
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Totally agree, the structure sucked today.

For example first half and we hadn't scored yet, lots of possession, 4th tackle I think JLJ goes across and motions Sue back inside for a hitup. He gets tackled fairly strongly, slow PTB and it's 5th tackle with St George set in defence and rushing forward. That play is for early tackles to drag the defence in and open the edges, you don't run it on 4th with any hope for a good attacking kick.

And then again you are right with options. If all you ever do is go out back to Tedesco, opposition will eat that up. Moses and Brooks have this issue, the one Benji had, where they execute a play despite what evolves in front of them. Thurston is the king of playing what he sees, Widdop did a good job of it today. Moses plays what he thought up at the PTB.

I've been criticising Brooks for his pass selection for some time, particularly to poor Lawrence, but Moses and to some extent JLJ were doing it today as well. One of the balls Moses threw to Sue I think, lucky he caught it, he was already in the teeth of 3 Dragons defenders but Moses threw it anyway. Or that stupid flick he threw to Tedesco, because he decided he just couldn't go to ground with the pill.

In the second half, there was one play where a quick PTB, Moses came forward hard and straightened up, he had Tedesco inside and Sue outside. He hit Sue who was running at top speed, Sue was half outside his man and he made it to within 2 m of the try line. That is a play that worries oppositions, but we hardly ever did anything like that, hardly ever 2 runners on our plays, hardly ever anyone steaming onto it, just across-field and out to the sweep player, the oppositions slide and murder us… if Naiqama gets the ball all he has is an attempt to step and draw the winger, it never works.

I want to see players charging onto the footy in the red zone, not catching it flat-footed then trying to come up with something. It's pathetic attack, no development of the set, no forethought, no pace and vigour.

Made all the worse today because the tactical kicking at the line was actually ok. The chase was not great but the kicks were alright and we got repeats, but we wasted most of the repeats. And once we got frustrated by the Dragons' defence we got more and more loose with structure, more outlandish and more error-prone.
 
I've also lost count of the number of times in the past 3 weeks we actually get over the line for TRY's and blow it…

When things are down it's those little things that go against you...
 
@ said:
Half the time the sweep plays arent even that, its just catch - pass, catch- pass, repeat till you run out of room
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To break it down further barely catch , throw the pass behind the man , he stops catches it , he then throws it at the next blokes feet , you get the picture
 
@ said:
@ said:
No structure, no plan, no options, no questions. When your 4th tackle option on attack is often Sue ambling at you one out it doesn't put much doubt into the defensive line. Defend when Tedesco and/or Moses runs at the line and job done. In three games this year we've failed to score a try from our own steam. Three out of five. Seven out of ten halves without a try that didn't rely on an opposition error. It's simply not good enough.

Totally agree, the structure sucked today.

For example first half and we hadn't scored yet, lots of possession, 4th tackle I think JLJ goes across and motions Sue back inside for a hitup. He gets tackled fairly strongly, slow PTB and it's 5th tackle with St George set in defence and rushing forward. That play is for early tackles to drag the defence in and open the edges, you don't run it on 4th with any hope for a good attacking kick.

And then again you are right with options. If all you ever do is go out back to Tedesco, opposition will eat that up. Moses and Brooks have this issue, the one Benji had, where they execute a play despite what evolves in front of them. Thurston is the king of playing what he sees, Widdop did a good job of it today. Moses plays what he thought up at the PTB.

I've been criticising Brooks for his pass selection for some time, particularly to poor Lawrence, but Moses and to some extent JLJ were doing it today as well. One of the balls Moses threw to Sue I think, lucky he caught it, he was already in the teeth of 3 Dragons defenders but Moses threw it anyway. Or that stupid flick he threw to Tedesco, because he decided he just couldn't go to ground with the pill.

In the second half, there was one play where a quick PTB, Moses came forward hard and straightened up, he had Tedesco inside and Sue outside. He hit Sue who was running at top speed, Sue was half outside his man and he made it to within 2 m of the try line. That is a play that worries oppositions, but we hardly ever did anything like that, hardly ever 2 runners on our plays, hardly ever anyone steaming onto it, just across-field and out to the sweep player, the oppositions slide and murder us… if Naiqama gets the ball all he has is an attempt to step and draw the winger, it never works.

I want to see players charging onto the footy in the red zone, not catching it flat-footed then trying to come up with something. It's pathetic attack, no development of the set, no forethought, no pace and vigour.

Made all the worse today because the tactical kicking at the line was actually ok. The chase was not great but the kicks were alright and we got repeats, but we wasted most of the repeats. And once we got frustrated by the Dragons' defence we got more and more loose with structure, more outlandish and more error-prone.
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Yep. Good attacking teams will present two or more options on multiple tackles in a set. The difference between the two scenarios involving Sue is bang on. A good hit up a dummy half run at speed and you have a platform. Running with options while the opposition retreats allows you to hit a runner or go yourself.

I've said a few times over recent seasons that Brooks takes terrible options. His instincts frankly stink. Whether that can be rectified by coaching seems a dubious proposition right now. Moses seems to think he's playing SG Ball again. Hopefully Cleary arrives quick and starts getting something resembling a coherent game plan with a structure that asks questions.
 
Why doesn't Moses run at the line more?
I can only remember him doind this twice yesterday and we looked dangerous and a threat of scoring.
Same goes for Brooks. Players need to be attacking the line at speed.

Every single set we had in their 20 it was just hitup after hitup. Then on the last tackle the ball goes to Moses and he just stands there and passes it to tedesco hoping something will hapen.

One play I wouldn't mind trying is from a penalty goal, purposly missing the goal so it goes to one of our players and with the opposition in cruise mode it is an easy try. What can go wrong, we will only be forfeiting 2 points if the play doesn't work.
 
We are working on a new game plan, we are no longer going to attack. We have to earn the right to score :unamused: until we do that the boys have agreed to drop the ball over the line rather than to score. They are aloud to through intercepts and opposition mistakes but no other way.

They are paying homage to JT.
 
yes so many things about our attack suck.

for example…..why do they never go left?? we have two huge guys and they never get any ball,its madness.

And its madenning watching Moses stick with the play even when its just not on....ffs if there are three blokes about to smash yer runner dont give it to him.

And dont start me on the fifth tackle kicks.....i cant recall one that we applied any pressure with,even Josh Mcrone can put in a kick every now and then.....how we have gone from one of the brightest attacking team to this slop has my head spinning but here we are.
 
@ said:
We are working on a new game plan, we are no longer going to attack. We have to earn the right to score :unamused: until we do that the boys have agreed to drop the ball over the line rather than to score. They are aloud to through intercepts and opposition mistakes but no other way.

They are paying homage to JT.
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YES it does seeem like that, the 5th tackle kick to no one lingers on as well…..
 
Good sides attack off playing hard fast and direct than a lightning play the ball and they may repeat the same thing three times before a quick shift. You can not do a sweep play till your pulled the defence in. You also have to run a lot of decoys to put some doubt on there, the old Sheens method of lots of bodies in motion.

Confidence is probably what we are lacking the most so not all is lost, but I get the feeling we just wasted a four month preseason and it is very hard to change things to much once the season has started
 
To be fair the ability to get to the line is there, do we have stats on tries bombed over the line? We blew two clear tries yesterday.

Doesn't change the result of the game, but changes the complexion somewhat in that our only points didn't come from a misread of a kick in goal.
 
@ said:
To be fair the ability to get to the line is there, do we have stats on tries bombed over the line? We blew two clear tries yesterday.

Doesn't change the result of the game, but changes the complexion somewhat in that our only points didn't come from a misread of a kick in goal.
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Oh it must be up to 7 or 8 tries by now. Suli bombed that grubber, Tedesco honestly bombed two in that single set early, plus the offside grubber. Suli and Tedesco bombed at least 1 each v Penrith (is there a trend here)? From memory Tedesco dropped one at the line against Raiders too. That's already 7 or 8 without checking the tape.

It definitely changes the complexion of the match, having ball and going up 10 or 12 points compared with coming up w nothing and the opposition scores on the back. We got close to beating Melbourne because we actually did manage points with our possession… every other side bar Souths has turned us away quite handsomely then marched downfield and scored off their chances.
 
Fox put up interesting stats

http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/tigers/the-biggest-obstacles-between-ivan-cleary-and-success-at-the-wests-tigers-five-burning-questions/news-story/ac4da3666614b8d2a32e12adae36d800

omewhat surprisingly, the Tigers have made the fourth most metres of any NRL team across the first five rounds with an average of 1462 per game. They’re also second for tackle busts with 31.2 per game.
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Those numbers would generally lead to plenty of points but save for their round one smash up of the Rabbitohs, the Tigers’ best effort is 14.
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Why? They’re bereft of ideas and penetration in attack.
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Their conversion rate once they get into their opponents’ 20 metre zone is deplorable.
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They’ve been tackled a whopping 191 times in the red zone across five games and have managed just five tries from those plays. That’s one try from inside their opponents’ 20 for every 31.8 tackles in that zone.
 
JT coached it out of them. Defense wins games…. lmao. Scoring more points than the opposition is what wins games.
 
@ said:
id say tedesco and moses are playing somewhat injured. Moses from all start and tedesco look unfit
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For Moses that is quite possible true. Tedesco just hasn't been given the ball at the right times. Tedesco has become the go to man, much like Benji was towards the end, expected to pull something out of the hat on every play but instead it becomes predictable.
 
Oh god…here we go again

If you keep the opposition to two tries, its easier to score three to win...comprende?
 
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