PERTH REDS

alien

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<big>Perth's got a lot going for it: NRL boss</big>
By Justin Chadwick, AAP June 30, 2010, 11:15 am
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Momentum is building for a Perth-based NRL team by 2013, with David Gallop strongly hinting Western Australia will get a team if expansion goes ahead.

Last Saturday's game between Melbourne and South Sydney in Perth attracted a crowd of 13,164 despite freezing night conditions and demand for tickets dropping markedly immediately after the Storm's salary cap dramas were revealed.

WA Rugby League chief executive John Sackson believes Perth had a strong fan base to support a team and NRL CEO Gallop says the prospect will be given careful consideration.

"We are in a similar situation to the AFL in that we are about to do a broadcast deal and hopefully that will bring a fresh new bucket of money into our game," Gallop said.

"In about 12 months' time when we've got a clearer picture of our media rights deal going forward we'll certainly be seriously looking at expansion and the bottom line is Perth's got a lot going for it.

"There's an opportunity for us to increase our national profile, the State economy's robust, the (rectangular) stadium is being redeveloped.

"At the moment you'd have to say the Central Coast and Perth are the lead contenders."

The Western Reds, who featured in the national competition in 1995 and '96, regularly attracted crowds above 13,000.

The Reds defected to the Super League in 1997 but folded later in the year, a victim of the Super League war.

Gallop said the demise of the Reds was irrelevant when deciding whether to introduce a Perth-based side by 2013.

"I think they were a victim of circumstances within the game generally rather than anything they were getting wrong themselves," Gallop said.

"They weren't playing in an ideal stadium for rugby league (WACA Ground) and that's now not an issue because we've got a good stadium (in ME Bank Stadium).

"I don't take a lot of notice of what happened in the mid-90s because it was such an unusual time in the game generally."

While AFL rules the roost in WA, Sackson said it was important for the NRL to have a meaningful presence in the market.

"It's important for the code to start looking outside the east coast," Sackson said.

"Particularly in the face of the AFL's aggressive approach to the Gold Coast and Western Sydney.

"Rugby league needs to get on the front foot and expand the game nationally."

Sackson said several companies had already approached the WARL about potentially sponsoring a Perth-based team.

"We know the other pivotal aspect is television rights, which comes into play in 2013," Sackson added.

"The appeal (to the NRL) of having another capital city market … would add some muscle to the negotiations.

"I think our prospects are very encouraging."

Rabbitohs coach John Lang, whose side will host another game in Perth next season, felt the time was right for a WA side.

"Certainly the competition's ready for a team from Perth in 2013," Lang said.

"We're a national rugby league competition, it's a big step forward if we can come over here in my opinion."

http://au.sports.yahoo.com/nrl/news/article/-/7488522/perths-got-lot-going-nrl-boss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 

Tiger_Watto

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Perth is a well positioned City to host an NRL Franchise. I have been working at Business Case simulations identifying it's suitability for nearly 2 years and the data strongly shows how successful a franchise would be if admitted into the NRL. The Business Case used the same model the Gold Coast Titans based it's economical viability from, and identified strong Revenue Earning potential after a 10year period to cement itself as a leading franchise within the NRL. Some of the outcomes I have thrown across the bow of a few Wests Tigers Forum Members on a couple of occasions to guage their responses. The key elements are as follows:

1\. Junior Development within the region is stronger than any Capital City outside of the traditional rugby league heartland of Brisbane & Sydney.
2\. Financial Success within 10 years can only be achieved on the following:
a) An existing franchise is relocated.
b) The relocated franchise must also be successful on the field prior to relocation.
c) The existing franchise must also have a strong supporter base outside it's tradition home.
d) The relocated franchise would need to play half their games for the first 5 years within it's traditional region.
e) The relocated franchise would be best suited to keep some form of it's heritage within it's branding.
3\. Perth has a strong financial economy on the back of it's rich resources and is an attractive offer for Multi-National Corperations to expose it's brands.
4\. Perth has the highest population in Australia, and is a popular tourist destination of/for South Africans.
5\. SA has a rich talent pool of Rugby players, and is seen as a suitable target market for cross-code recruitment. Further to recruitment, SA also has rich resources and the opportunity to attract their corporate dollars to the Australian marketplace.
 

Geo

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Yep great idea Watto…...but 1 question .......Where do the NRL standard players come from????...Yawnion.....

Good luck.....
 

JRD

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@Tiger Watto said:
Perth is a well positioned City to host an NRL Franchise. I have been working at Business Case simulations identifying it's suitability for nearly 2 years and the data strongly shows how successful a franchise would be if admitted into the NRL. The Business Case used the same model the Gold Coast Titans based it's economical viability from, and identified strong Revenue Earning potential after a 10year period to cement itself as a leading franchise within the NRL. Some of the outcomes I have thrown across the bow of a few Wests Tigers Forum Members on a couple of occasions to guage their responses. The key elements are as follows:

1\. Junior Development within the region is stronger than any Capital City outside of the traditional rugby league heartland of Brisbane & Sydney.
2\. Financial Success within 10 years can only be achieved on the following:
a) An existing franchise is relocated.
b) The relocated franchise must also be successful on the field prior to relocation.
c) The existing franchise must also have a strong supporter base outside it's tradition home.
d) The relocated franchise would need to play half their games for the first 5 years within it's traditional region.
e) The relocated franchise would be best suited to keep some form of it's heritage within it's branding.
3\. Perth has a strong financial economy on the back of it's rich resources and is an attractive offer for Multi-National Corperations to expose it's brands.
4\. Perth has the **highest population in Australia**, and is a popular tourist destination of/for South Africans.
5\. SA has a rich talent pool of Rugby players, and is seen as a suitable target market for cross-code recruitment. Further to recruitment, SA also has rich resources and the opportunity to attract their corporate dollars to the Australian marketplace.

Where do you get "highest population in Australia" from??????????
What club would even think of relocating?
They would also be competing with the Western Force who werent around when the reds were in the comp.
If this happens just to help fight the AFL i think it would be a big mistake money could be used wiser
 

BrissieTiger67

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according to wiki perth pop is 4th highest, but i agree with most of your other points, having a team in perth i think is important for national integration of the sport. The a-league has managed it recently so should the nrl.
 

Juro

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Having a team in Perth again would take away that argument that we are an East Coast Rugby League instead of National Rugby League.

However, I can't see how any team who is currently successful would want to move (2b in Watto's list).

Also, I wonder how games over there would fit into the television schedule (oh so important). If they have night games, they would be the late late show on the east coast (not to mention NZ).

And the other thing to consider is the added cost for teams to be travelling back and forth every week. The rugby union doesn't have to worry so much about this because they are already going between NZ and South Africa.
 

Yossarian

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@JRD said:
@Tiger Watto said:
Perth is a well positioned City to host an NRL Franchise. I have been working at Business Case simulations identifying it's suitability for nearly 2 years and the data strongly shows how successful a franchise would be if admitted into the NRL. The Business Case used the same model the Gold Coast Titans based it's economical viability from, and identified strong Revenue Earning potential after a 10year period to cement itself as a leading franchise within the NRL. Some of the outcomes I have thrown across the bow of a few Wests Tigers Forum Members on a couple of occasions to guage their responses. The key elements are as follows:

1\. Junior Development within the region is stronger than any Capital City outside of the traditional rugby league heartland of Brisbane & Sydney.
2\. Financial Success within 10 years can only be achieved on the following:
a) An existing franchise is relocated.
b) The relocated franchise must also be successful on the field prior to relocation.
c) The existing franchise must also have a strong supporter base outside it's tradition home.
d) The relocated franchise would need to play half their games for the first 5 years within it's traditional region.
e) The relocated franchise would be best suited to keep some form of it's heritage within it's branding.
3\. Perth has a strong financial economy on the back of it's rich resources and is an attractive offer for Multi-National Corperations to expose it's brands.
4\. Perth has the **highest population in Australia**, and is a popular tourist destination of/for South Africans.
5\. SA has a rich talent pool of Rugby players, and is seen as a suitable target market for cross-code recruitment. Further to recruitment, SA also has rich resources and the opportunity to attract their corporate dollars to the Australian marketplace.

Where do you get "highest population in Australia" from??????????

I think (and Watto can correct me if I'm wrong) that if you read the whole sentence he means Perth has the highest population of SOUTH AFRICANS in Australia.
 

Yossarian

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@Juro said:
Having a team in Perth again would take away that argument that we are an East Coast Rugby League instead of National Rugby League.

However, I can't see how any team who is currently successful would want to move (2b in Watto's list).

Also, I wonder how games over there would fit into the television schedule (oh so important). If they have night games, they would be the late late show on the east coast (not to mention NZ).

And the other thing to consider is the added cost for teams to be travelling back and forth every week. The rugby union doesn't have to worry so much about this because they are already going between NZ and South Africa.

Actually they would be great for TV schedule.

Friday night 7:30 games would be live at 9:30
Saturday night 5:30 start becomes a live 7:30 game, again a 7:30 game is live at 9:30 on Super Saturday.
Sunday a 2pm game is live for Ch 9 at 4pm.

Monday night would be the only issue.
 

Tiger_Watto

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@Yossarian said:
@JRD said:
@Tiger Watto said:
Perth is a well positioned City to host an NRL Franchise. I have been working at Business Case simulations identifying it's suitability for nearly 2 years and the data strongly shows how successful a franchise would be if admitted into the NRL. The Business Case used the same model the Gold Coast Titans based it's economical viability from, and identified strong Revenue Earning potential after a 10year period to cement itself as a leading franchise within the NRL. Some of the outcomes I have thrown across the bow of a few Wests Tigers Forum Members on a couple of occasions to guage their responses. The key elements are as follows:

1\. Junior Development within the region is stronger than any Capital City outside of the traditional rugby league heartland of Brisbane & Sydney.
2\. Financial Success within 10 years can only be achieved on the following:
a) An existing franchise is relocated.
b) The relocated franchise must also be successful on the field prior to relocation.
c) The existing franchise must also have a strong supporter base outside it's tradition home.
d) The relocated franchise would need to play half their games for the first 5 years within it's traditional region.
e) The relocated franchise would be best suited to keep some form of it's heritage within it's branding.
3\. Perth has a strong financial economy on the back of it's rich resources and is an attractive offer for Multi-National Corperations to expose it's brands.
4\. Perth has the **highest population in Australia**, and is a popular tourist destination of/for South Africans.
5\. SA has a rich talent pool of Rugby players, and is seen as a suitable target market for cross-code recruitment. Further to recruitment, SA also has rich resources and the opportunity to attract their corporate dollars to the Australian marketplace.

Where do you get "highest population in Australia" from??????????

I think (and Watto can correct me if I'm wrong) that if you read the whole sentence he means Perth has the highest population of SOUTH AFRICANS in Australia.

Yep, South African living in Australia…
 

Tiger_Watto

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@Geo. said:
Yep great idea Watto…...but 1 question .......Where do the NRL standard players come from????...Yawnion.....

Good luck.....

There just isnt enough Playing Talent to introduce 2 new teams either way. This is why it will only be successful as a 'Relocation'. To start a team from scratch has NO financial viability at all. The team would need cash injections every year of up to $10m. No investors would look at it…

If the Perth Reds bid is successfull, it is doomed financially...

There is simply no other way for Perth to work!!!
 

Gary_Bakerloo

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@Yossarian said:
Actually they would be great for TV schedule.

Friday night 7:30 games would be live at 9:30
Saturday night 5:30 start becomes a live 7:30 game, again a 7:30 game is live at 9:30 on Super Saturday.
Sunday a 2pm game is live for Ch 9 at 4pm.

Monday night would be the only issue.

That is correct. Perth would actually have quite a high "value-add" in TV rights negotiations. To alleviate issues with Monday night, the NRL could be able to have live matches on Sunday night.

I agree re comments regarding the available talent, although extra teams will pull some playing talent back from the UK. In saying that, I think that relocating a team is the most successful method. Cronulla should be offered Perth and Manly should be offered Central Coast. If they decline, they are out of the NRL and we go with new franchises in these areas.

Our two great clubs made sacrifices for the good of the game, time for some other Sydney based clubs to do the same. There is no need for teams in the shire and northern beaches if you have teams based on the Central Coast and Kogarah/Wollongong.
 

Yossarian

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@Gary Bakerloo said:
@Yossarian said:
Actually they would be great for TV schedule.

Friday night 7:30 games would be live at 9:30
Saturday night 5:30 start becomes a live 7:30 game, again a 7:30 game is live at 9:30 on Super Saturday.
Sunday a 2pm game is live for Ch 9 at 4pm.

Monday night would be the only issue.

That is correct. Perth would actually have quite a high "value-add" in TV rights negotiations. To alleviate issues with Monday night, the NRL could be able to have live matches on Sunday night.

I agree re comments regarding the available talent, although extra teams will pull some playing talent back from the UK. In saying that, I think that relocating a team is the most successful method. Cronulla should be offered Perth and Manly should be offered Central Coast. If they decline, they are out of the NRL and we go with new franchises in these areas.

Our two great clubs made sacrifices for the good of the game, time for some other Sydney based clubs to do the same. There is no need for teams in the shire and northern beaches if you have teams based on the Central Coast and Kogarah/Wollongong.

Very true about Sunday night especially with an extra game. Can't agree about Manly and the Central Coast. Firstly it would go down like a lead balloon on the Coast and secondly you'd have no NRL team in the entire Northern Sydney area. I just don't see that being a goer.
 

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@Alf Duguid said:
I think PNG would be a more viable option at this point

I agree, the country on the planet where League is its national sport. They breathe it over there, and it would make them more competitive on the international stage.
 

Gary_Bakerloo

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@Yossarian said:
Very true about Sunday night especially with an extra game. Can't agree about Manly and the Central Coast. Firstly it would go down like a lead balloon on the Coast and secondly you'd have no NRL team in the entire Northern Sydney area. I just don't see that being a goer.

I understand your point, but (don't take this personally) your view is what I find wrong with rugby league strategy in general. Seriously, in the scheme of a supposed national competition, who cares if a few lousy suburbs on the northern beaches don't have team representing them in the NRL. The population on the northern beaches is essentially capped, it will grow steadily, but nothing like the growth on the Central Coast or Western Sydney.

Massive commercial opportunity awaits on the Central Coast, Perth and PNG and we are worried a couple of suburbs in northern Sydney will lose a team. It is backwards looking and compared to the AFL, our strategy stinks as it is constrained by pathetic minority interests. The game is just not ruthless enough like the AFL and the results speak for themselves.

For crying out loud, Manly only draws around 12,000 - 15,0000 to each game! It's not like they are pulling 30,000 week in week out. Further, residents in northern Sydney would still subscribe to foxtel regardless of Manly relocating. Why? It is rugby and football territory, not rugby league.
 

Yossarian

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@Gary Bakerloo said:
@Yossarian said:
Very true about Sunday night especially with an extra game. Can't agree about Manly and the Central Coast. Firstly it would go down like a lead balloon on the Coast and secondly you'd have no NRL team in the entire Northern Sydney area. I just don't see that being a goer.

I understand your point, but (don't take this personally) your view is what I find wrong with rugby league strategy in general. Seriously, in the scheme of a supposed national competition, who cares if a few lousy suburbs on the northern beaches don't have team representing them in the NRL. The population on the northern beaches is essentially capped, it will grow steadily, but nothing like the growth on the Central Coast or Western Sydney.

Massive commercial opportunity awaits on the Central Coast, Perth and PNG and we are worried a couple of suburbs in northern Sydney will lose a team. It is backwards looking and compared to the AFL, our strategy stinks as it is constrained by pathetic minority interests. The game is just not ruthless enough like the AFL and the results speak for themselves.

For crying out loud, Manly only draws around 12,000 - 15,0000 to each game! It's not like they are pulling 30,000 week in week out. Further, residents in northern Sydney would still subscribe to foxtel regardless of Manly relocating. Why? It is rugby and football territory, not rugby league.

Fair enough. I would say again though (and I live on the Central Coast) that relocating Manly would be an absolute disaster. I understand your point about Foxtel subscribers, not really convinced the Northern beaches is as union territory as you think. I also doubt having a CC team would make a huge difference re Foxtel. I'd also suggest we're talking more than "a few suburbs"!!
 

alien

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We don't have enough good players to have more than 16 teams, and we definately have too many Sydney teams. I would like to see them relocate Bulldogs to Perth, Sharks to Adelaide, Souths to Gosford and Sea Eagles to Brisbane. Then we would only have 5 Sydney teams (Wests Tigers, Penrith, Parramatta, St. George Illawarra, Sydney Roosters) which is more than enough. You know it makes sense.

With PNG I would like to see them back in the QLD Cup (like they were years ago) before they have a team in the NRL.
 

Jazza

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I think Perth must come in, in 2013.

As has been said they have a junior system and they would be perfect with the timeslots.

I think relocation isnt a bad idea, but the whole idea of bringing Perth in with the Central Coast is so that we can have an extra game per round. Some people will say, 'well just bring another Brisbane team in as well', but I think when we expand, it needs to be done carefully and if that means taking it slowly, then so be it.

As far as not having enough playing talent goes, well by having the extra game per round (And therefore more money from tv rights), the salary cap will rise and so more players are going to stay in the game, add to that with extra clubs in Australia, there is more of a chance that another club in Australia will pick up a player rather then go to England.

I think Perth and Central Coast are needed for 2013, another Brisbane side and PNG for 2018, and Adelaide and Wellington for 2023.
 

redemption

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@Tiger Watto said:
Perth is a well positioned City to host an NRL Franchise. I have been working at Business Case simulations identifying it's suitability for nearly 2 years and the data strongly shows how successful a franchise would be if admitted into the NRL. The Business Case used the same model the Gold Coast Titans based it's economical viability from, and identified strong Revenue Earning potential after a 10year period to cement itself as a leading franchise within the NRL. Some of the outcomes I have thrown across the bow of a few Wests Tigers Forum Members on a couple of occasions to guage their responses. The key elements are as follows:

1\. Junior Development within the region is stronger than any Capital City outside of the traditional rugby league heartland of Brisbane & Sydney.
2\. Financial Success within 10 years can only be achieved on the following:
a) An existing franchise is relocated.
b) The relocated franchise must also be successful on the field prior to relocation.
c) The existing franchise must also have a strong supporter base outside it's tradition home.
d) The relocated franchise would need to play half their games for the first 5 years within it's traditional region.
e) The relocated franchise would be best suited to keep some form of it's heritage within it's branding.
3\. Perth has a strong financial economy on the back of it's rich resources and is an attractive offer for Multi-National Corperations to expose it's brands.
4\. Perth has the highest population in Australia, and is a popular tourist destination of/for South Africans.
5\. SA has a rich talent pool of Rugby players, and is seen as a suitable target market for cross-code recruitment. Further to recruitment, SA also has rich resources and the opportunity to attract their corporate dollars to the Australian marketplace.

Some questions Watto:

1\. How is that model based on the TItans given that success is predicated on relocation of an existing "successful" franchise?

2\. Has the Titans model established its long-term financial viability yet - or are there major concerns relating to their ability to pay routine operational bills after over-capitalising on their so-called Centre of Excellence?

2a. Does the model include a majority-owner and CEO who goes overseas mid-season for a month to manage a pro-surfer?

3\. What would be the carrot for a "successful" entity to relocate to Perth given the burden of start-up costs and other incendiaries such as player relocation and transport (plus the need to retain their old home base for 5 years)?

4\. Would the extremely parochial West Australian public accept a relocated team (there is no such precedent in WA with AFL or Union)?

5\. While WA has a very strong industrial/mining-base & economy - why have the Western Force had to rely on the likes of the now-defunct Firepower & internationals like Emirates for sponsorship (do mining companies need/desire exposure via sport)? The former-Reds had the less than salubrious Cash Converters as their major sponsor - does WA big business have any interest in league - not if you go by their local media?

6\. Perth is the **4th** most populous capital city - boasting less than half the population of Sydney or Melbourne(and only 500k more than Adelaide)! Why is the patronage of South African tourists a criteria for viability?

7\. (I assume you meant WA - not SA) While Perth does have a vibrant domestic Union comp - how many of the Force's current roster are local juniors after five seasons of Super 14 (more or less than 5%)? Is this perhaps because both rugby codes in WA are primarily played by ex-pat Afrikaaners, Polynesian labourers and eastern-staters who are way past their prime? (I cannot see a potential first-grader emerging from the Rockingham Raiders league team in the next ten years!)

7a. If by SA you meant Sth Africa - the question remains how many Sth Africans have the Force recruited in 5 years without the additional burden of code-crossing & our salary cap? Are SA corporate interests knocking down the Roosters door after they signed JP DuPlessis (or did they need to get Gynge to go to Steggles with cap in hand on their behalf)?

The model appears flawed to me at a rudimentary level - and alot of the assumptions that underpin it require serious qualification.
 

redemption

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@Alf Duguid said:
I think PNG would be a more viable option at this point

Please explain what you mean by viable in a country that's average weekly wage is still less than $60?

Also given that it boasts average temperatures of over 30 degrees in season?
 
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