Politics Super Thread - keep it all in here

[Magpie_Magic]

You use government spending to grow and inflate the economy as was done (or at least as occurred) in the post-WW2 period.

That's what happened.

Trouble is till the 70s personal debt levels were low and a house in Sydney was say 20k freestanding and average wages 5k in say 71. Governments had accrued WW2 debt but with the gold standard there was real currency value.

Once Nixon left the gold standard interest rates commenced their ascent to 20% in 81. Remember the 80s real well they wouldn't fix a pothole on the road let alone spend.

And this is worse now with much higher public and private levels of debt rising rates and little asset backing for currencies.

If they go more QE then they run the risk of seeing capital flight into the Wests competitor's and also Cryptocurrencies.

We may have a chance as commodities rise drawing capital. But I suspect if we stand out as being too successful amongst western nations we will be forced to spend on a huge military budget helping our allies.

So not much joy.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

We've all been robbed.

On and off the field.

 

[stryker 69]

You are hoping that the economy grows to be large enough to service the debt easily. That isn't very likely in our current scenario.

You can deflate your currency and if the debt is in your currency then you are in effect paying back less money. It comes with a cost of deflating your currency though.

At some point you have to pay the piper. It's not really avoidable. It's more a choice about what is least bad.

You have to make money to pay it off.
Without those two industries firing on all cylinders, the country is stuffed. Your suggestions are suicide for the economy.

 

[stryker 69]

If anyone wants to understand what I'm stating rationally and factually I suggest watching this video.

It is factual and unbiased. It is not something supporting my view. It's just explaining facts.

This is all very obvious stuff.
What does it have to do with you wanting to kill off two of our biggest industries? How do you expect we pay our debts off without high contribution from these sectors?

 

[jadtiger]

Just to show that little positive change comes to the world it looks almost guaranteed that one of the most corrupt families in the world will return to power in the Phillipines.The son of Marcos looks to have won the presidential race there and Filipinos will be worse off for it.

 

[stryker 69]

Just to show that little positive change comes to the world it looks almost guaranteed that one of the most corrupt families in the world will return to power in the Phillipines.The son of Marcos looks to have won the presidential race there and Filipinos will be worse off for it.

Yeah disappointing news.

 

[earl]

As I have said previously, it is all complicated and I don't pretend to an economics guru that has all the answers about what should or should not be done.

Personally I don't believe it's that complicated. Stryker said it was simple and obvious. I studied economics at uni. I feel I'm educated on the topic. I have not heard a single way to pay off the debt that will work other than the government spending less money.

I also know that you actually don't have a choice.

 

[earl]

What does it have to do with you wanting to kill off two of our biggest industries?

Did I say that ?

I said the money train has to stop. It will stop as well. The hyperbole that you and others keep going on with is stupid and it's fantasy world stuff as well.

Give me facts.

 

[earl]

Our current debt has been accrued while simply treading water. These guys want to spend even more without any concept or creative ambition

Exactly. It's a big freaken issue.

When you talk to the issue you get tantrums because people want their money.

Reality is that at some point it has to get paid back.

 

[earl]

Just to show that little positive change comes to the world it looks almost guaranteed that one of the most corrupt families in the world will return to power in the Phillipines.The son of Marcos looks to have won the presidential race there and Filipinos will be worse off for it.

My wife is Fillipino. I can't believe this. His family ripped off the people so bad and they vote his son into power.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

I don't understand how you think we can spend our way out of debt.

A Government can increase the productivity of its citizens by improving the quality of its labour force, by increasing the quantity of its capital (investing in new private equipment and structures and public infrastructure) and by improving the efficiency with which these factors are used. Expenditure to improve the productive capacity of the nation to increase GDP is an accepted economic tool of Govt. Often expenditure is funded by a deficit. Not all debt is bad.

Note yesterday Jason Clare's comments that wage increases can occur as long as they are accompanied by productivity increases. Clare cited the reforms to the Aust economy achieved by Hawke and Keating which Howard lived off for years.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Just to show that little positive change comes to the world it looks almost guaranteed that one of the most corrupt families in the world will return to power in the Phillipines.The son of Marcos looks to have won the presidential race there and Filipinos will be worse off for it.

I thought Duterte was overwhelmingly popular (I know he has his problems as well,) or was he ineligible to run?

 

[earl]

I thought Duterte was overwhelmingly popular, or was he ineligible to run?

I think so. His daughter ran but she ran with Bong Bong. That is actually his name.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I think so. His daughter ran but she ran with Bong Bong. That is actually his name.

I thought his name was the same as his fathers?

 

[earl]

Expenditure to improve the productive capacity of the nation to increase GDP is an accepted economic tool of Govt. Often expenditure is funded by a deficit. Not all debt is bad.

Totally agree. Not all debt is bad.

The debt we have now though is very very bad. It's massive and it means less spending in the future. You can't get around it. We also haven't had productivity increases from this spending.

 

[earl]

I thought his name was the same as his fathers?

Bongbong Marcos - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

You are right but he is referred to as Bong Bong.

 

[jadtiger]

I thought his name was the same as his fathers?

His used name is Bong Bong his surname is Marcos.Also there are close ties between the Marcos family and the Duterte family.Both families are rotten to the core

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Totally agree. Not all debt is bad.

The debt we have now though is very very bad. It's massive and it means less spending in the future. You can't get around it. We also haven't had productivity increases from this spending.

We need a change of Govt with a Keynesian economics leaning.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

His used name is Bong Bong his surname is Marcos.Also there are close ties between the Marcos family and the Duterte family.Both families are rotten to the core

Yeah I acknowledged that, just stating that I thought that Duterte was pretty popular so I was surprised to hear someone else was elected, he must have been ineligible to stand?

 

[earl]

We need a change of Govt with a Keynesian economics leaning.

It's just standard fiscal policy. It's cool to have deficits but you can only manage so much debt. That debt has to be serviced at the very least.

It's actually a really bad situation because both monetary and fiscal policies have to tighten. You can forget about Keynesian economics in relation to stimulating the economy because the money isn't there.