Sandor Earl interview about to start

@smeghead said:
@tigergirlz said:
Penrith paid the bills!!!! And then deny any association.

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Paid doctors bills, never bills for products

???? Shut the [This word has been automatically removed] up idiot!
The club is covering up because 80% of players use these recovery methods and muscle increases Shit look at the size of these guys compared to 10 yrars aho

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Sad situation ….. Although its hard to defend the player, I don't think the club can claim innocence. In fact I think they let him down.
 
@tigergirlz said:
Not sure shambolism is a legal defence

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Well no but it goes a long way to determining intent. I don't see where Penrith has knowingly committed a crime here. They seem to have paid an invoice for medical services rather than buying drugs/medication
 
Ignorance is not an acceptable defence IMO. Even if the junior accounts clerk at Penrith paid the bill the club must be held responsible.

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Has anyone read the article Gus wrote about it the other day? I'm sorry I can't post it here using my phone, but it is very interesting…
The things I found most interesting were:
- dank was not an employee of the club and would just appear randomly unannounced throughout a short period there
- earl never mentioned seeing another doctor to either Gus (who spoke with him on a number of occasions) or his physio who was working extensively with him
- penrith actually did the right thing by earl, his medical insurance had run out cos he hadn't paid it so they covered all expenses, he was going to continue to play with an injured shoulder in order to get a new contract untill Gus spoke with him and insisted he get the operation and ensured earl he would give him a 12 month contract to get fit again and prove himself to get a better contract, when he was fully fit and playing again (although only nsw cup for penrith) Canberra offered him a contract and Gus allowed him to break the penrith contract so he could get better money and play nrl - penrith didn't get compensation for this either,
- penrith did pay for doctor visits but did not pay for injections. At that stage when they were paying for Physio and medical bills for earl it would be easy to see why an accountant/bill payer would not hesitate to pay $50 bills for a bloke who is receiving treatment from different organizations - in fact earl probably could have gotten money back from Medicare for the consultations with the dr! Does that mean the government is also to blame for giving him peptides?
- peptides are actually really expensive, cost thousands apparently, penrith didn't pay for them, earl says he didn't pay for them, why would dank pay for them? What benefit does he get from it all? Is this a porky on earl's behalf? It may not have been the only one in that interview??
- earl did not return to play any sooner than what the Physio had told him (she is not linked to dank and had no idea about the treatment) earl claimed he returned much sooner than expected, when in fact he returned exactly as expected by the Physio
- even when he returned playing and his recovery was going well/complete he didn't ever mention to his Physio or Gus or others about the treatment he got with dank. If it was so good and impressive why would he keep that a secret from his club? Why not share it with them, unless of course he had some thoughts that it could be illegal.... He claimed in the interview not to tell anyone because the dr's would get over cautious, but why worry about that after treatment has stopped and apparently worked?

I'm aware of Gus's position in the club and that dank was there before he got to the club. I understand it is in Gus's interests to shield/protect penrith from any damage caused. We also need to be aware that there are 2 sides to every story, earl voiced his version of the story on tv for a large sum of money, Gus has released some of the penrith story in his article.....
If someone could find and post the article I'm sure others would find it interesting also...

Believe what u like - ill wait for asada to work through all stories and inform us all of what actually happened - long wait...

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Found the article - enjoy :slight_smile:

Hands up all those who feel sorry for Sandor Earl? My, there are a lot of you. OK, hands down and take a seat. I have a story to tell.
In late May 2011, I joined Panthers as rugby league general manager.
Within my first couple of months on the job, I bumped into Sandor Earl in the club gymnasium.
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The Channel 9 interview during the week. Photo: Courtesy Channel 9
At this time, Sandor was struggling with his football. I asked him why he thought he wasn't playing so well. He told me his shoulders required reconstructive surgery and the only reason he was persevering with playing was to try and impress the club to secure a new contract.
I'd seen this scenario many times before. I told Sandor he was wasting his time playing with injuries. I advised him to have the shoulder surgeries done immediately so he could be ready for the 2012 season. I said I'd give him a contract for season 2012 so he had money to live on. Once he was fit and well, I believed he could prove himself as an NRL player and earn a better contract with the Panthers or another NRL club.
Sandor was excited at the opportunity. In the following weeks we organised the new contract and arranged for a specialist surgeon to repair his shoulders. Having two shoulder reconstructions is massive. Sandor required months of intensive physiotherapy and rehabilitation, but we were confident he'd be ready for trials at the start of 2012.
Following the first shoulder surgery, Sandor asked me for permission to see a physiotherapist by the name of Elizabeth Steet. At this time, the Panthers were very much under-resourced. We only had one part-time physiotherapist and he was totally overworked. Financial constraints meant there was little likelihood I could improve that situation in the short term.
I'd known Elizabeth for many years. I worked with her in both my tenures as NSW State of Origin coach, at the Roosters when I was head coach and later as coaching director. Elizabeth is regarded as one of the leading sports-injury physiotherapists in Australia. Her surgery at Kensington was also much closer to where Sandor was living, which saved him significant time and travel costs.
I agreed to Sandor being treated by Elizabeth. Sandor then told me his medical cover had expired and he couldn't afford to pay for the treatment. I phoned Elizabeth to ask if she was prepared to treat Sandor. I told her to send the accounts to Panthers. She immediately agreed to assist with Sandor's injury rehabilitation.
Over the coming months I'd regularly check with Sandor and Elizabeth on his progress. Elizabeth always gave Sandor glowing reports regarding his diligence and work ethic. She predicted he was well on track to return to the playing field in February.
In February 2012 Sandor was cleared by his specialist to play in the first trial of the year. His medical clearance came not a day sooner than expected, and not a day later than Elizabeth predicted. When Sandor scored the first try of the match, I sent a text message to Elizabeth saying her star patient had just scored the opening try of the new season. To say she was excited would be an understatement.
Now, from the time of the first shoulder surgery back around the time of June/July 2011, right through to playing in the first trial in February, not once in all this time did Sandor ever mention to Elizabeth or myself that he was receiving alternative treatment of any sort from a Mr Stephen Dank or Dr Ijaz Khan. He never once mentioned he was on a course of injections. This despite the large number of physiotherapy sessions Sandor had with Elizabeth, and despite the countless number of times I asked Sandor how his rehabilitation was progressing. Not once did he ask if we knew anything about treatments called peptides. Not that I would've been able to answer him on peptides because I had never heard of the bloody things; but I'm sure the physiotherapist could've answered any queries. Not once did he come to me or anyone else at our club and say there would be some extra bills coming in for treatment from this Dr Khan. Not once. Not bloody once!
I'd really still like to know who paid for the peptide/drugs Sandor claims he received from Dank. The overdue accounts from Khan that were eventually paid by the accounts department at Panthers Group some months later were not for peptides. They were merely bills for consultations and $25 injections, which would not have raised any suspicion with accounts people at the time. A course of peptides, as we now understand, runs into the many thousands of dollars. Who paid for the drugs Sandor says he had injected by Khan?
In Sandor's interview on Channel 9 during the week, he claimed Dank asked Sandor to keep their "off-base" treatments to themselves and to not tell others at the club "because the doctor wouldn't understand". He admits the first time he was injected with peptides at the Cabramatta clinic he felt sick in the stomach and had to rest for five minutes before he could stand up. Did this not give him some clue that the treatment might not be right for him? Despite this abnormal reaction, Sandor says he returned for many more injections over the coming weeks.
Not once did Sandor mention these injections to Elizabeth, me or anyone else at Panthers. Not once. Yet Sandor claimed during his interview during the week that he assumed Penrith must've known about his off-site treatments. He doesn't explain how Penrith should know, or why he thought they should know.
If it's true what Sandor alleges, that he and Dank agreed to keep this treatment a secret from club staff and that they agreed to conduct this treatment "off base" so as to avoid detection, how the hell would anyone at Panthers know he was receiving this treatment? If he was so convinced the treatment was legal and supposedly expediting his recovery, why did he not once share this great news with his physiotherapist? Some months later Sandor approached me with news he had a good offer to play with the Raiders. At the time, he was in our reserve grade team. The new offer is a great opportunity to play NRL football with another club. I agree to release Sandor from his contract.
At this point I'm thinking this is a real good news story. Everything I'd advised Sandor to do the previous year in that conversation in the gym had worked our just great. He had his surgeries, we got him the best of physiotherapy treatment, he worked hard, his shoulders were healed, he'd played well enough to impress another club, and now he had himself a new NRL contract with a great club like the Raiders. I must admit I felt pretty special about the whole thing.
Fast forward to 2013 and the ASADA dramas break. Penrith are one of six NRL clubs named in a special report regarding performance-enhancing drugs. I'm informed by ASADA officials that the Panthers are a low priority in this investigation and the mention of the club in this report relates to a period in early 2011 when Dank visited the club and possibly developed a relationship with a player who may or may not still be at the club.
At this point in time, I had no idea this Dank had ever visited the Panthers. We began our internal investigations and learned Dank was introduced to the club by members of the former coaching and conditioning staff sometime in late 2010, perhaps early 2011\. I've never met Dank and never saw him at Panthers. I'm told he visited the club on several occasions.
His visits were never scheduled. Those who were at Panthers at that time describe that he just "popped in" occasionally. We can find no record of any commercial dealing or transactions with Dank. He was never an employee of the Panthers. He was never paid as a consultant.
If he was supposedly offering support in the area of injury rehabilitation, why is it that Sandor was the only player who availed himself of Dank's services? If Dank and Khan were performing such miracles in the treatment of Sandor's injuries, why weren't they on the phone to Panthers management espousing the virtues of their radical treatments, looking for more clients?
Soon rumours started to circulate about Sandor's participation in Dank's treatment processes. I rang Elizabeth to ask her if, with the benefit of hindsight, she had any suspicions about Sandor's recovery as his physiotherapist. Elizabeth emphasised Sandor's recovery from the original double-shoulder surgery was completely normal and within her expectations. She maintains he did not get back to playing one day sooner than anticipated.
She was nearly in tears as she described how hard he'd worked on his injuries in her surgery and if people could've seen how dedicated he was to his rehabilitation process, they wouldn't be carrying on with these ridiculous rumours. She went on to say she had discussed the rumours with Sandor, but he had declared he was innocent of all suspicion.
Some weeks later Sandor confessed to ASADA officials he was part of an illegal treatment program under the care of Dank. To say that Elizabeth was completely shattered by the admission would be a gross understatement. Even allowing for the lies and mistrust, Elizabeth's first concern was still for the welfare of Sandor and how he would cope emotionally with his ordeal. Elizabeth is a very loyal and dedicated individual. She deserved better.
To this day, I've not received a call from Sandor since he walked out of Panthers HQ to drive to Canberra. His allegations against Dank were there for all to hear during his interview during the week. He has expressed significant hurt that he felt betrayed by Dank, who he says assured him the treatments were legal and would not get him in trouble. These allegations are now a matter for them to sort out for themselves. Like I said, I don't know Dank and at the moment the only evidence we have regarding his role in all this comes from Sandor. But what I will say is if Earl feels somewhat betrayed and aggrieved at having been misled by Dank, then perhaps he will have some small understanding of the betrayal and damage we are feeling at the Panthers as a result of his stupidity and secrecy.
The club gave Sandor the opportunity to repair his injured shoulders. The club availed him of the best possible physiotherapy treatment to get himself back to playing at full strength. The club gave him a new contract and an opportunity to rebuild his playing career. The club then gladly granted him an unconditional release from that contract to take up a better opportunity with another club when the better offer came along. All that the club expected in return was Sandor's professionalism and honesty.
Now, hands up all those who feel sorry for Sandor.
Phil Gould is executive general manager of Penrith Panthers.

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amazing article!

although, keep in mind that is biased just like Earl's account. Seems as though the truth lies somewhere in the middle but probably moreso in favour of gould's account.
 
@Anonymous said:
Found the article - enjoy :slight_smile:

Hands up all those who feel sorry for Sandor Earl? My, there are a lot of you. OK, hands down and take a seat. I have a story to tell.
In late May 2011, I joined Panthers as rugby league general manager.
Within my first couple of months on the job, I bumped into Sandor Earl in the club gymnasium.
Advertisement
\
\
The Channel 9 interview during the week. Photo: Courtesy Channel 9
At this time, Sandor was struggling with his football. I asked him why he thought he wasn't playing so well. He told me his shoulders required reconstructive surgery and the only reason he was persevering with playing was to try and impress the club to secure a new contract.
I'd seen this scenario many times before. I told Sandor he was wasting his time playing with injuries. I advised him to have the shoulder surgeries done immediately so he could be ready for the 2012 season. I said I'd give him a contract for season 2012 so he had money to live on. Once he was fit and well, I believed he could prove himself as an NRL player and earn a better contract with the Panthers or another NRL club.
Sandor was excited at the opportunity. In the following weeks we organised the new contract and arranged for a specialist surgeon to repair his shoulders. Having two shoulder reconstructions is massive. Sandor required months of intensive physiotherapy and rehabilitation, but we were confident he'd be ready for trials at the start of 2012.
Following the first shoulder surgery, Sandor asked me for permission to see a physiotherapist by the name of Elizabeth Steet. At this time, the Panthers were very much under-resourced. We only had one part-time physiotherapist and he was totally overworked. Financial constraints meant there was little likelihood I could improve that situation in the short term.
I'd known Elizabeth for many years. I worked with her in both my tenures as NSW State of Origin coach, at the Roosters when I was head coach and later as coaching director. Elizabeth is regarded as one of the leading sports-injury physiotherapists in Australia. Her surgery at Kensington was also much closer to where Sandor was living, which saved him significant time and travel costs.
I agreed to Sandor being treated by Elizabeth. Sandor then told me his medical cover had expired and he couldn't afford to pay for the treatment. I phoned Elizabeth to ask if she was prepared to treat Sandor. I told her to send the accounts to Panthers. She immediately agreed to assist with Sandor's injury rehabilitation.
Over the coming months I'd regularly check with Sandor and Elizabeth on his progress. Elizabeth always gave Sandor glowing reports regarding his diligence and work ethic. She predicted he was well on track to return to the playing field in February.
In February 2012 Sandor was cleared by his specialist to play in the first trial of the year. His medical clearance came not a day sooner than expected, and not a day later than Elizabeth predicted. When Sandor scored the first try of the match, I sent a text message to Elizabeth saying her star patient had just scored the opening try of the new season. To say she was excited would be an understatement.
Now, from the time of the first shoulder surgery back around the time of June/July 2011, right through to playing in the first trial in February, not once in all this time did Sandor ever mention to Elizabeth or myself that he was receiving alternative treatment of any sort from a Mr Stephen Dank or Dr Ijaz Khan. He never once mentioned he was on a course of injections. This despite the large number of physiotherapy sessions Sandor had with Elizabeth, and despite the countless number of times I asked Sandor how his rehabilitation was progressing. Not once did he ask if we knew anything about treatments called peptides. Not that I would've been able to answer him on peptides because I had never heard of the bloody things; but I'm sure the physiotherapist could've answered any queries. Not once did he come to me or anyone else at our club and say there would be some extra bills coming in for treatment from this Dr Khan. Not once. Not bloody once!
I'd really still like to know who paid for the peptide/drugs Sandor claims he received from Dank. The overdue accounts from Khan that were eventually paid by the accounts department at Panthers Group some months later were not for peptides. They were merely bills for consultations and $25 injections, which would not have raised any suspicion with accounts people at the time. A course of peptides, as we now understand, runs into the many thousands of dollars. Who paid for the drugs Sandor says he had injected by Khan?
In Sandor's interview on Channel 9 during the week, he claimed Dank asked Sandor to keep their "off-base" treatments to themselves and to not tell others at the club "because the doctor wouldn't understand". He admits the first time he was injected with peptides at the Cabramatta clinic he felt sick in the stomach and had to rest for five minutes before he could stand up. Did this not give him some clue that the treatment might not be right for him? Despite this abnormal reaction, Sandor says he returned for many more injections over the coming weeks.
Not once did Sandor mention these injections to Elizabeth, me or anyone else at Panthers. Not once. Yet Sandor claimed during his interview during the week that he assumed Penrith must've known about his off-site treatments. He doesn't explain how Penrith should know, or why he thought they should know.
If it's true what Sandor alleges, that he and Dank agreed to keep this treatment a secret from club staff and that they agreed to conduct this treatment "off base" so as to avoid detection, how the hell would anyone at Panthers know he was receiving this treatment? If he was so convinced the treatment was legal and supposedly expediting his recovery, why did he not once share this great news with his physiotherapist? Some months later Sandor approached me with news he had a good offer to play with the Raiders. At the time, he was in our reserve grade team. The new offer is a great opportunity to play NRL football with another club. I agree to release Sandor from his contract.
At this point I'm thinking this is a real good news story. Everything I'd advised Sandor to do the previous year in that conversation in the gym had worked our just great. He had his surgeries, we got him the best of physiotherapy treatment, he worked hard, his shoulders were healed, he'd played well enough to impress another club, and now he had himself a new NRL contract with a great club like the Raiders. I must admit I felt pretty special about the whole thing.
Fast forward to 2013 and the ASADA dramas break. Penrith are one of six NRL clubs named in a special report regarding performance-enhancing drugs. I'm informed by ASADA officials that the Panthers are a low priority in this investigation and the mention of the club in this report relates to a period in early 2011 when Dank visited the club and possibly developed a relationship with a player who may or may not still be at the club.
At this point in time, I had no idea this Dank had ever visited the Panthers. We began our internal investigations and learned Dank was introduced to the club by members of the former coaching and conditioning staff sometime in late 2010, perhaps early 2011\. I've never met Dank and never saw him at Panthers. I'm told he visited the club on several occasions.
His visits were never scheduled. Those who were at Panthers at that time describe that he just "popped in" occasionally. We can find no record of any commercial dealing or transactions with Dank. He was never an employee of the Panthers. He was never paid as a consultant.
If he was supposedly offering support in the area of injury rehabilitation, why is it that Sandor was the only player who availed himself of Dank's services? If Dank and Khan were performing such miracles in the treatment of Sandor's injuries, why weren't they on the phone to Panthers management espousing the virtues of their radical treatments, looking for more clients?
Soon rumours started to circulate about Sandor's participation in Dank's treatment processes. I rang Elizabeth to ask her if, with the benefit of hindsight, she had any suspicions about Sandor's recovery as his physiotherapist. Elizabeth emphasised Sandor's recovery from the original double-shoulder surgery was completely normal and within her expectations. She maintains he did not get back to playing one day sooner than anticipated.
She was nearly in tears as she described how hard he'd worked on his injuries in her surgery and if people could've seen how dedicated he was to his rehabilitation process, they wouldn't be carrying on with these ridiculous rumours. She went on to say she had discussed the rumours with Sandor, but he had declared he was innocent of all suspicion.
Some weeks later Sandor confessed to ASADA officials he was part of an illegal treatment program under the care of Dank. To say that Elizabeth was completely shattered by the admission would be a gross understatement. Even allowing for the lies and mistrust, Elizabeth's first concern was still for the welfare of Sandor and how he would cope emotionally with his ordeal. Elizabeth is a very loyal and dedicated individual. She deserved better.
To this day, I've not received a call from Sandor since he walked out of Panthers HQ to drive to Canberra. His allegations against Dank were there for all to hear during his interview during the week. He has expressed significant hurt that he felt betrayed by Dank, who he says assured him the treatments were legal and would not get him in trouble. These allegations are now a matter for them to sort out for themselves. Like I said, I don't know Dank and at the moment the only evidence we have regarding his role in all this comes from Sandor. But what I will say is if Earl feels somewhat betrayed and aggrieved at having been misled by Dank, then perhaps he will have some small understanding of the betrayal and damage we are feeling at the Panthers as a result of his stupidity and secrecy.
The club gave Sandor the opportunity to repair his injured shoulders. The club availed him of the best possible physiotherapy treatment to get himself back to playing at full strength. The club gave him a new contract and an opportunity to rebuild his playing career. The club then gladly granted him an unconditional release from that contract to take up a better opportunity with another club when the better offer came along. All that the club expected in return was Sandor's professionalism and honesty.
Now, hands up all those who feel sorry for Sandor.
Phil Gould is executive general manager of Penrith Panthers.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Pretty good article, but I feel like both the Panthers and Sandor are trying to deny guilt by acting ignorant on all accounts, and so they're both kinda pushing each other under the bus. I have no idea who to believe. I don't know whether Sandor was really hard done by, or the club were being supportive in a situation where their player was being shady or what, but it's obvious both of them are really trying hard to make the other look like the bad guy. Judging by this article, and the Sandor interview, I'd say it's probably Sandor being dumb in both the way he dealt with, well, pretty much everything (by that I mean, if they're both guilty, Gould has used his media savvy nature to out do Sandor in an attempt to look innocent). I'm not sure anyone understood what I tried to say there but whatever.

Either way, it's good to see another perspective on the situation.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_
 
Not sure but if peptides were being used for their proper purpose, ie some sort of medical treatment, then maybe they are covered by Medicare and don't cost thousands?

So maybe the doctor just told a few porkies and pretended Earl was an 80 year old grandmother with chronic asthma or something?
 
@tigergirlz said:
Ignorance is not an acceptable defence IMO. Even if the junior accounts clerk at Penrith paid the bill the club must be held responsible.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

That's like saying I'm responsible for any crimes Fed-Ex commits in delivering a parcel. Obviously Penrith had a system whereby they paid medical expenses up to a reasonable level. Now I don't dispute there is some oversight issue in that Penrith didn't fully control the medical programmes of their players but the actual payment is not (IMO anyway) an indication of their responsibility for what their players did.
 
@tigergirlz said:
If you are the CEO of Fed-Ex you most likely would have to shoulder some blame.

_Posted using RoarFEED 2013_

Sure but as a user of Fed-Ex's services I can't be blamed for what they do and don't inform me of.

Penrith aren't the employer of the person selling the drugs, they've paid an invoice submitted by an employee based on what the employee told them. If Earl handed an invoice saying "Peptides" then okay they are responsible but on released information it appears they believed they were paying for medical services to treat an injury in a legal way.
 
Will be interesting to see if the Teflon Roosters have any more answering to do once the Grand Final is over and done with…..their "little issue" from last week has conveniently been swept under the carpet for now.
 
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