Sharks Trial: LIVE GAME THREAD
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ron_burgandy
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@innsaneink said:
no i wasnt there yesterday, but i was there when we played the roosters and he was a 2/10 as a HALFBACK, he plays 5/8th at U20s level where he is very very good, he played 5/8th yesterday and by all reports was his best game in the FG side, so riddle me this, why does he play his best football @ 5/8th and not as half back?
maybe he isnt a legit halfback at this stage of his career, maybe he wont ever be a legit halfback,
moltzen when playing @ 7 @ FG level has done nothing wrong, in some games been very exceptional, he was a junior kangaroos halfback, he is 5/5 @ FG level as a half back he is the best player at this stage for the halfback position for our FG team, we have the flash and brillance and creativity from farah and marshall we dont need a flash all or nothing halfback we need a player to do a job and that guy has been and should be moltzen
so instead of wasting another year on manufacturing a halfback, why not just play the one player in our FG squad who has the pedigree, been there and done the job for us before and won us games.
if sheens is serious about lui playing half back then he should be doing it in premier league, FG is not a place for a guy with training wheels especially an important position like half back.
Some good points you raise Ron..hard to argue…One question
What's the difference between the halfback and 5/8th in the Wests Tigers style of play ?
Do we have the typical Stuart/Daley 6 & 7 or a more Johns/Johns style in the mordern game spliting the halves left and right in attack?
Most sides have a dominate half either 6 or 7 from what I've seen in recent times...Maybe Sheens wants 2....
From the reports from those at the game first and second reciever where mixed up a bit...with Lui, Molten, Farah and even Liam getting a turn....
Just as I'm sure it will with Benji in the mix Round 1...
What's the difference between the halfback and 5/8th in the Wests Tigers style of play ?
Do we have the typical Stuart/Daley 6 & 7 or a more Johns/Johns style in the mordern game spliting the halves left and right in attack?
Most sides have a dominate half either 6 or 7 from what I've seen in recent times...Maybe Sheens wants 2....
From the reports from those at the game first and second reciever where mixed up a bit...with Lui, Molten, Farah and even Liam getting a turn....
Just as I'm sure it will with Benji in the mix Round 1...
G
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@tomcat said:
That may well be the case mate, but watching Mullaney yesterday, he's just not ready yet IMO.
Mitch BROWN - Didn't get involved too much at fullback and wasn't really playing with the intensity of a man who was trying to win a first grade spot. He failed to sniff around the ruck with Farah and Lui making some breaks, but did seem solid on the wing which is where I think he will be come round 1.
Geoff DANIELA - Limited game time and even more limited opportunity with ball in hand. Made one half break after some nice lead up work by Lawrence to draw in the winger only to be put into touch. Relies heavily on his speed as his physical presence is minimal, and will be handy to fill some voids if injury strikes hard but won't see to much first grade this year.
Blake AYSHFORD - Again the Tigers attack was directed down Lawrences left hand side so Ayshford saw limited ball and really had no space to work in. Will hold his spot in the centres but it looks like we will have the same approach as last year with most of our attack heading towards Lawrence.
Chris LAWRENCE - Looked big, hungry and a man on a mission. His line speed in defense was great as was his first up contact. With ball in hand Lawrence has it all and showed it last night in patches where he was able to beat a man on the outside with pace, bust through tackles or draw in two defenders to put his winger away. Such an awesome prospect and at 19 years of age this kid will be in the sky blue for a long time to come.
Beau RYAN - Was solid bringing the ball out from our own line making vital metres. Did nothing special but definitely did nothing wrong either. Always looks to get involved and won't let the side down, although he doesn't really have that flashy side to his game where he can turn something out of nothing which could hurt his chances of holding down a wing spot when Tuqiri and Tuiaki are available.
Robert LUI - Started quietly and looked shaky early on when throwing some longer balls. His kicking game was on song from the get go regularly finding space with his long kicks and forcing Stapleton to bring the ball back from his on goal line consistantly. As the game went on so too did his confidence grow. He started to talk a lot more and looked comfortable in directing the side around the park. Threw some deft long balls, put his forwards into space and took the line on with great success. Contrary to what some people believe I think Marshall was playing a halfbacks game last year and gave our side direction while Moltzen did his own thing and was able to utilised his running game effectively. I believe Lui will be able to play a similar role as Marshall will again be the chief and from what I saw of Lui he has the ability to put players into gaps as well as find a gap himself. Our second best on the park.
Tim MOLTZEN - Struggled without Marshall. Looked nervous in the first half and wasn't taking command of the team from halfback like he should of. At times the side looked unorganised and pedestrian. My take on Moltzen is that he is not an organiser, he is a natural runner of the ball who works best when he can run two off the ruck linking up with wide running back rowers or using his pace and step. Without Marshall there to take that workload Moltzen struggled. In the second half with Lui growing in confidence and organising the forwards Moltzen was able to play a bit wider and therefore utilise his running game resulting in a good try after beating a few players. This is when he looked his best.
Keith GALLOWAY - Big Keef has really grown as a footballer and barring injury will be in for another huge year. Hit the line hard consistently taking us past the advantage line with his hard work paying off scoring a barnstorming try. Great in defense and ultimately this bloke is destined for higher rep honours this year which are thoroughly deserved. Stood toe to toe with Douglas which could of resulted in a spectacular heavyweight bout, which importantly showed that Galloway now has that aggression in his game that most fans were calling for in previous years.
Robbie FARAH - Dally M medalist for 2010? Maybe, maybe not but Farah is truly a superstar of rugby league. Has the knack of knowing exactly when to scoot from dummy half and tore the Sharks markers to shreds making easy meters up the middle and put our boys on the front foot all day. Is always backing up breaks which resulted in his first try and takes so much pressure of the halves with his kicking game. He again worked tirelessly in defense plugging up the ruck. This is his first pre season in 3 years where he could do weights with his back fully recovered, look for Farah to have his best year yet at the Tigers.
Bryce GIBBS - Bryce's leg speed in defense is such an asset to this team and he was always up quick in shutting down their big fellas (Douglas, Snowden, Millington) before they could muster up too much momentum. Another attribute of Gibbs' is that he us undoubtedly the first forward back to take a hit up after an opposition kick, which hurts his stats a lot, but unselfishly he always does the hard work early which he doesn't get a lot of credit for.
Gareth ELLIS - Wow this man can hit. Put on some great shots that could be heard reverberating through the grandstands and out a shiver through my spine. Was a rock in defense once again and tested out the Sharks fringes with his size and footwork but also did the hard work through the middle as well. He will carry on his form from last year but the question remains - when will Ellis get the try scoring hoodoo off his back??
Liam FULTON - Tried hard and tackled himself to a stand still. Looked fairly creative at times with the ball in hand and ran good lines like he always does. Again though his slighter frame made it difficult for him to penetrate the Sharks defensive line and with Payten coming back from injury Fulton may find himself coming off the bench to try and take advantage of teams tiring towards the back end of each half.
Chris HEIGHINTON - Has copped plenty of flack on the forum and I tend to agree with the criticism directed towards him after last year. He looked tired and ineffective and I believe was used too close to the ruck as a battering ram. Fast forward to last night and Heighinton was back to his best running wider of the ruck and was not stopping at the line always looking for an offload but instead was trying to push through the advantage line hitting great lines off Moltzen and mainly Lui resulting in two strong tries. Looks fit, hungry and was a tireless tackler ticking all boxes of a good lock for 2010.
Jason CAYLESS - Still finding his feet and finding confidence in his body after an extensive layoff. He seemed very hesitant in bringing the football back from kick offs but still made decent meters and didn't shirk in his responsibilities in attack or defense. Can only get better with more game time and match fitness but just needs to believe in himself again and find that mongrel he showed for the Roosters when he was at his peak.
Junior MOORS - A big lad who took some stopping. Not great leg speed in attack but has a great offload in his game and provides good impact coming off the bench. Would like to see him played a bit wider with his offloading ability but looked good in the Tigers colours.
Willie MATAKA - Got limited game time but did his job when on. Noticeably quicker on his feet but didn't really get the chance to do anything special especially with other forwards playing well.
Jake MULLANEY - Missed a simple tackle on Kelly close to the line which led to a try but also stopped one with a great cover tackle on a much bigger Ferguson.His slight frame worked against him as he was easily handled by the sharks when running the ball. He was always roving in and around the ruck area looking for an offload or half gap to squeeze through which was a good sign of his keeness to get involved, but didn't show anymore then what Mitch Brown did at the back.
Geoff DANIELA - Limited game time and even more limited opportunity with ball in hand. Made one half break after some nice lead up work by Lawrence to draw in the winger only to be put into touch. Relies heavily on his speed as his physical presence is minimal, and will be handy to fill some voids if injury strikes hard but won't see to much first grade this year.
Blake AYSHFORD - Again the Tigers attack was directed down Lawrences left hand side so Ayshford saw limited ball and really had no space to work in. Will hold his spot in the centres but it looks like we will have the same approach as last year with most of our attack heading towards Lawrence.
Chris LAWRENCE - Looked big, hungry and a man on a mission. His line speed in defense was great as was his first up contact. With ball in hand Lawrence has it all and showed it last night in patches where he was able to beat a man on the outside with pace, bust through tackles or draw in two defenders to put his winger away. Such an awesome prospect and at 19 years of age this kid will be in the sky blue for a long time to come.
Beau RYAN - Was solid bringing the ball out from our own line making vital metres. Did nothing special but definitely did nothing wrong either. Always looks to get involved and won't let the side down, although he doesn't really have that flashy side to his game where he can turn something out of nothing which could hurt his chances of holding down a wing spot when Tuqiri and Tuiaki are available.
Robert LUI - Started quietly and looked shaky early on when throwing some longer balls. His kicking game was on song from the get go regularly finding space with his long kicks and forcing Stapleton to bring the ball back from his on goal line consistantly. As the game went on so too did his confidence grow. He started to talk a lot more and looked comfortable in directing the side around the park. Threw some deft long balls, put his forwards into space and took the line on with great success. Contrary to what some people believe I think Marshall was playing a halfbacks game last year and gave our side direction while Moltzen did his own thing and was able to utilised his running game effectively. I believe Lui will be able to play a similar role as Marshall will again be the chief and from what I saw of Lui he has the ability to put players into gaps as well as find a gap himself. Our second best on the park.
Tim MOLTZEN - Struggled without Marshall. Looked nervous in the first half and wasn't taking command of the team from halfback like he should of. At times the side looked unorganised and pedestrian. My take on Moltzen is that he is not an organiser, he is a natural runner of the ball who works best when he can run two off the ruck linking up with wide running back rowers or using his pace and step. Without Marshall there to take that workload Moltzen struggled. In the second half with Lui growing in confidence and organising the forwards Moltzen was able to play a bit wider and therefore utilise his running game resulting in a good try after beating a few players. This is when he looked his best.
Keith GALLOWAY - Big Keef has really grown as a footballer and barring injury will be in for another huge year. Hit the line hard consistently taking us past the advantage line with his hard work paying off scoring a barnstorming try. Great in defense and ultimately this bloke is destined for higher rep honours this year which are thoroughly deserved. Stood toe to toe with Douglas which could of resulted in a spectacular heavyweight bout, which importantly showed that Galloway now has that aggression in his game that most fans were calling for in previous years.
Robbie FARAH - Dally M medalist for 2010? Maybe, maybe not but Farah is truly a superstar of rugby league. Has the knack of knowing exactly when to scoot from dummy half and tore the Sharks markers to shreds making easy meters up the middle and put our boys on the front foot all day. Is always backing up breaks which resulted in his first try and takes so much pressure of the halves with his kicking game. He again worked tirelessly in defense plugging up the ruck. This is his first pre season in 3 years where he could do weights with his back fully recovered, look for Farah to have his best year yet at the Tigers.
Bryce GIBBS - Bryce's leg speed in defense is such an asset to this team and he was always up quick in shutting down their big fellas (Douglas, Snowden, Millington) before they could muster up too much momentum. Another attribute of Gibbs' is that he us undoubtedly the first forward back to take a hit up after an opposition kick, which hurts his stats a lot, but unselfishly he always does the hard work early which he doesn't get a lot of credit for.
Gareth ELLIS - Wow this man can hit. Put on some great shots that could be heard reverberating through the grandstands and out a shiver through my spine. Was a rock in defense once again and tested out the Sharks fringes with his size and footwork but also did the hard work through the middle as well. He will carry on his form from last year but the question remains - when will Ellis get the try scoring hoodoo off his back??
Liam FULTON - Tried hard and tackled himself to a stand still. Looked fairly creative at times with the ball in hand and ran good lines like he always does. Again though his slighter frame made it difficult for him to penetrate the Sharks defensive line and with Payten coming back from injury Fulton may find himself coming off the bench to try and take advantage of teams tiring towards the back end of each half.
Chris HEIGHINTON - Has copped plenty of flack on the forum and I tend to agree with the criticism directed towards him after last year. He looked tired and ineffective and I believe was used too close to the ruck as a battering ram. Fast forward to last night and Heighinton was back to his best running wider of the ruck and was not stopping at the line always looking for an offload but instead was trying to push through the advantage line hitting great lines off Moltzen and mainly Lui resulting in two strong tries. Looks fit, hungry and was a tireless tackler ticking all boxes of a good lock for 2010.
Jason CAYLESS - Still finding his feet and finding confidence in his body after an extensive layoff. He seemed very hesitant in bringing the football back from kick offs but still made decent meters and didn't shirk in his responsibilities in attack or defense. Can only get better with more game time and match fitness but just needs to believe in himself again and find that mongrel he showed for the Roosters when he was at his peak.
Junior MOORS - A big lad who took some stopping. Not great leg speed in attack but has a great offload in his game and provides good impact coming off the bench. Would like to see him played a bit wider with his offloading ability but looked good in the Tigers colours.
Willie MATAKA - Got limited game time but did his job when on. Noticeably quicker on his feet but didn't really get the chance to do anything special especially with other forwards playing well.
Jake MULLANEY - Missed a simple tackle on Kelly close to the line which led to a try but also stopped one with a great cover tackle on a much bigger Ferguson.His slight frame worked against him as he was easily handled by the sharks when running the ball. He was always roving in and around the ruck area looking for an offload or half gap to squeeze through which was a good sign of his keeness to get involved, but didn't show anymore then what Mitch Brown did at the back.
innsaneink
Well-known member
@ron burgandy said:
My post was in reply to ur statement about us winning with Moltz all the time at 7….he had little to do with it yesterday...I thought you werent there cause if you was you wouldnt have said
what you people have to take into account is that for some mind boggling reason whenever moltzen is in the 7 we win, yet sheens and you fellas seem to want lui in there.
ron_burgandy
New member
@Geo. said:
i dont know, marshall struggled at 7 but thrives at 6, even though sheens says there is nothing different except for the number on his back, but i think we all know a little better then that.
all i do is look at ther numbers and moltzens is as follows when at halfback
win 54-20 v rabbitohs
win 34-14 v cowboys
win 25-4 v raiders - Man of the match
Win 17-10 v Roosters
win 19-18 v manly
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then after those 5 wins in a row he was moved out of the 7 and we go 2-2 with our 2 wins coming against the worst team in the comp in the sharks and a bulldogs team who were void of several stars including there halfback and saviour brett kimmorley
i dont know what more he could of done to say he wants the 7 jersey, imo lui whilst he may be a great player in the future isnt the man for the job for 2010, benji and moltz seem to be the best combination as the numbers prove, but i know they wont be there in round 1 as our 6&7
ron_burgandy
New member
@ ink:
but we still won with him playing @ 7 though ink, he plays the role the team needs at 7 that was the point i was making
but we still won with him playing @ 7 though ink, he plays the role the team needs at 7 that was the point i was making
@ron burgandy said:
Really ….....losing those 2 games had more to do with losing both wingers in 1 and Farah's brain explosions in the other than it did Moltzen wearing 7\. I would have thought.....The victories of which you speak had more to do with only conceeding 13 ppg..ie the whole team played better.....
After all in 2007 we won 6 in a row with Morris/Fulton in the 6 and 7....It doesn't mean much
crouching_tiger
New member
@palms said:
Not a bad run down there.
But Your take on Moltzen's game was a bit rough. To me it looked like Sheens has directed him to stay a bit quieter back in the halves and let Lui actually find his voice on the field and take charge which is one of his weaknesses. Moltzen was even instructed to go back to fullback at one stage. So the numbers on the backs once again meant nothing in regards to what Sheens was trying to do yesterday. It was more a trial for different combinations at fullback giving Brown, Mullaney fair runs there.
Moltzen was used as a link man and was copping plenty of hospital balls around his bootlaces on the run. Any other player would not have caught those. No surprises who was throwing them to him..
innsaneink
Well-known member
@ron burgandy said:
Its a weak point, youre reading to much into it imo
I agree with much of what else you said though
Novocastrian_Tiger
New member
Hi peeps, following are some random observations about last nights game:
**Mullaney** - If we could put his mind and speed into Browns body, we would have an awesome fullback. But unfortunately we cant, hence we have a problem with his small stature in first grade. A few times he was monstered by the defence and didn't look entirely convincing. Unless there are injuries, I would be letting him further his game in State cup and hopefully filling out a little more.
**Brown** - Looked slow and cumbersome at fullback, even though he has decent size, he didn't really trouble the defence when he got to their line. Didn't really sniff around for offloads or back up breaks. Not the best option, but better suited at wing.
**Lui** - It was the best game I have seen him play. He seemed to be everywhere in attack and was really causing the defence problems. Missed one whopper of a tackle on Ferguson that nearly resulted in a try, but otherwise was fairly solid. Still not entirely sold on him being our first grade halfback after one good showing though.
Farah was a class above everyone last night, Moltzen was adequate without being spectacular, Lawrence looked sharp and quick - needs more earlier ball with room to move, Galloway was strong up front, Cayless still looks tentative - hopefully game time will fix that up, and Moors looks like a good attacking option off the bench.
Even though we had a good game, the sharks didn't really throw alot at us so it is hard to gauge exactly how we are travelling. Come the first round, with Benji, Lote, Payten coming aboard, we will hopefully step up another level and win vs manly.
**Mullaney** - If we could put his mind and speed into Browns body, we would have an awesome fullback. But unfortunately we cant, hence we have a problem with his small stature in first grade. A few times he was monstered by the defence and didn't look entirely convincing. Unless there are injuries, I would be letting him further his game in State cup and hopefully filling out a little more.
**Brown** - Looked slow and cumbersome at fullback, even though he has decent size, he didn't really trouble the defence when he got to their line. Didn't really sniff around for offloads or back up breaks. Not the best option, but better suited at wing.
**Lui** - It was the best game I have seen him play. He seemed to be everywhere in attack and was really causing the defence problems. Missed one whopper of a tackle on Ferguson that nearly resulted in a try, but otherwise was fairly solid. Still not entirely sold on him being our first grade halfback after one good showing though.
Farah was a class above everyone last night, Moltzen was adequate without being spectacular, Lawrence looked sharp and quick - needs more earlier ball with room to move, Galloway was strong up front, Cayless still looks tentative - hopefully game time will fix that up, and Moors looks like a good attacking option off the bench.
Even though we had a good game, the sharks didn't really throw alot at us so it is hard to gauge exactly how we are travelling. Come the first round, with Benji, Lote, Payten coming aboard, we will hopefully step up another level and win vs manly.
ron_burgandy
New member
@Geo. said:
well geo the sharks were crap last year and had no offence so its hard to take pride in keeping them 10 points, BRET and the u20s may have beat that team the sharks put out that day.
yeah parra was a tough one losing tnt and ryan in the first 30 mins and TBH i wasnt expectin lui to be great or to win us the game, what im posting is not an insult to lui or his abilities because he has talent coming out of every orriface of his body, but when it come down to what best suits our team for 2010, moltzen is the best half back option, i hope im wrong and we win 75% of our games with lui @ 7 but reality is he will most likely do more harm then good at this stage, give him a season with BRET, then bring him throuh, i think the jump from U20s to FG for a half is to big for the majority
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