Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

gregjm87 said:
I get what you are saying. I don't think anyone pre-meditates hip drops and no-one is seeing a defender slice through the line and thinking about how should I make this tackle. They are simply reaching out and doing what they can.

However...there was a shift away from legs tackles probably about 10-15 years ago due to the fast play the balls that followed (about the time I was finishing up playing footy at any meaningful level for reference of when I was playing). The result is this current generation no longer tackled legs, they grabbed and wrestled. The hip drop wasn't introduced to injure players, it was to better position yourself to wrestle. When this is what you practice it becomes what you do. Players now need to practice a different way to tackle so that their default is not a hip drop. That different way is the legs tackles that was taught 30 years ago when I was young.
P.s. I now feel like an old man.
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We are largely on the same page I think.

It’s just another situation where the decision makers don’t have a feel for the game and it leads to confusion and p’s long term fans of the game off.
 
EllisFan said:
We are largely on the same page I think.

It’s just another situation where the decision makers don’t have a feel for the game and it leads to confusion and p’s long term fans of the game off.
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Where I believe I differ from most, I actually like the fact that the NRL was getting serious about punishing the hip drop. We have literally seen that tackle end careers yet alone many a players season. It should be stamped out of the game.
I hate many of the arguments put forth justifying the hip drop tackle. 'No intent/accident", "what else is he supposed to do" or "it's just a legs tackles". None of these arguments hold any weight in my opinion.
I believe we are very much on the same page as you and others when it comes to the NRL changing their stance from one month to the next. We saw at least two other tackles that were worthy of suspension not get punished over the weekend.
The usual cycle is NRL want to crackdown on something. The punishments increase. Fans upset about the punishments. NRL takes a softer stance. This cycle needs to stop as it just leads to more BS such as "Api was only suspended because he is a Tiger".
NRL need to stand by their decisions for a season. Then if they do need to wind it back do it in the offseason.
 
gregjm87 said:
I get what you are saying. I don't think anyone pre-meditates hip drops and no-one is seeing a defender slice through the line and thinking about how should I make this tackle. They are simply reaching out and doing what they can.

However...there was a shift away from legs tackles probably about 10-15 years ago due to the fast play the balls that followed (about the time I was finishing up playing footy at any meaningful level for reference of when I was playing). The result is this current generation no longer tackled legs, they grabbed and wrestled. The hip drop wasn't introduced to injure players, it was to better position yourself to wrestle. When this is what you practice it becomes what you do. Players now need to practice a different way to tackle so that their default is not a hip drop. That different way is the legs tackles that was taught 30 years ago when I was young.
P.s. I now feel like an old man.
Click to expand...
I dont see it this way.
I agree pretty much with what @EllisFan thinks....most of the hip drops we see are desperate break neck speed scenarios often in broken play...the game having been sped up and seeing more line breaks sees defenders isolated in one on one situations...this has ballooned the last few years and as such theyve brought in penalties for it.
In the past we would see it occasionally but it was always classed as accidental.
Now its a penalty and or sin binning, and in some cases 3 weeks suspension...much like a falling player tapped on the head is now classed as a high shot...before it was nothing.
This is the game covering its own arse as a result of the continual changes to the way the game is reffed or more precisely nowadays...interpreted.
Just my 2 bobs worth
 
innsaneink said:
I dont see it this way.
I agree pretty much with what @EllisFan thinks....most of the hip drops we see are desperate break neck speed scenarios often in broken play...the game having been sped up and seeing more line breaks sees defenders isolated in one on one situations...this has ballooned the last few years and as such theyve brought in penalties for it.
In the past we would see it occasionally but it was always classed as accidental.
Now its a penalty and or sin binning, and in some cases 3 weeks suspension...much like a falling player tapped on the head is now classed as a high shot...before it was nothing.
This is the game covering its own arse as a result of the continual changes to the way the game is reffed or more precisely nowadays...interpreted.
Just my 2 bobs worth
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Yeah, that’s the thing mate.

The game has used the shoulder charge to advertise itself as a brutal sport quite recently, and yet now they will penalise for an accidental clip on the chin that wouldn’t bruise a grape.

An all of game forum is needed to decide what this sport is going forward.

The warrior like sport we all grew up with, or fairy floss.
 
innsaneink said:
I dont see it this way.
I agree pretty much with what @EllisFan thinks....most of the hip drops we see are desperate break neck speed scenarios often in broken play...the game having been sped up and seeing more line breaks sees defenders isolated in one on one situations...this has ballooned the last few years and as such theyve brought in penalties for it.
In the past we would see it occasionally but it was always classed as accidental.
Now its a penalty and or sin binning, and in some cases 3 weeks suspension...much like a falling player tapped on the head is now classed as a high shot...before it was nothing.
This is the game covering its own arse as a result of the continual changes to the way the game is reffed or more precisely nowadays...interpreted.
Just my 2 bobs worth
Click to expand...
You speed up the game you get players making errors through desperation and fatigue.
There are games where teams don't touch the ball for 10- 15 mins that puts any side under enormous pressure defensively physically and mentally.
I believe the NRL are trying to create a spectacle where tackling becomes secondary to point scoring - and what we know now about the possible outcome of contact sport they probably can't afford not to.
Sadly from my perspective if that's the direction the game is heading it just doesn't have the same appeal.
 
innsaneink said:
I dont see it this way.
I agree pretty much with what @EllisFan thinks....most of the hip drops we see are desperate break neck speed scenarios often in broken play...the game having been sped up and seeing more line breaks sees defenders isolated in one on one situations...this has ballooned the last few years and as such theyve brought in penalties for it.
In the past we would see it occasionally but it was always classed as accidental.
Now its a penalty and or sin binning, and in some cases 3 weeks suspension...much like a falling player tapped on the head is now classed as a high shot...before it was nothing.
This is the game covering its own arse as a result of the continual changes to the way the game is reffed or more precisely nowadays...interpreted.
Just my 2 bobs worth
Click to expand...


If someone goes past you now how do you tackle them ?

How do you chase a winger down ?

Maybe it should but like tag when the player gets past you it's just a tag on the back ?
 
Telltails said:
You speed up the game you get players making errors through desperation and fatigue.
There are games where teams don't touch the ball for 10- 15 mins that puts any side under enormous pressure defensively physically and mentally.
I believe the NRL are trying to create a spectacle where tackling becomes secondary to point scoring - and what we know now about the possible outcome of contact sport they probably can't afford not to.
Sadly from my perspective if that's the direction the game is heading it just doesn't have the same appeal.
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Not bad enough they sanatise the game but they cant even be consistant about it. Api copped 3 weeks for a hip drop with priors. Our winger gets a stint while touching another player midair contesting a ball and he falls akwardly and hurts his ankle. Meanwhile Paix who placed his body weight on takeahos leg snapping his leg gets nothing. Makes sense.
 
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liltiger said:
Not bad enough they sanatise the game but they cant even be consistant about it. Api copped 3 weeks for a hip drop with prior. Our winger gets a sting while touching another player midair contesting a ball and he falls akwardly and hurts his ankle. Meanwhile Paix who placed his body weight on takeahos leg snapping his leg gets nothing. Makes sense.
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The hardest working effort players will be the most likely to get cited and injured - hence Api's rap sheet
 
liltiger said:
Not bad enough they sanatise the game but they cant even be consistant about it. Api copped 3 weeks for a hip drop with prior. Our winger gets a sting while touching another player midair contesting a ball and he falls akwardly and hurts his ankle. Meanwhile Paix who placed his body weight on takeahos leg snapping his leg gets nothing. Makes sense.
Click to expand...

What do you expect when you get a flog like Anusley in charge of the refs/judiciary.A failed ex LNP politician running the show,what could possibly go wrong.Politicians from ANY and ALL parties should not be involved in running sport at all.
 
gregjm87 said:
I get what you are saying. I don't think anyone pre-meditates hip drops and no-one is seeing a defender slice through the line and thinking about how should I make this tackle. They are simply reaching out and doing what they can.

However...there was a shift away from legs tackles probably about 10-15 years ago due to the fast play the balls that followed (about the time I was finishing up playing footy at any meaningful level for reference of when I was playing). The result is this current generation no longer tackled legs, they grabbed and wrestled. The hip drop wasn't introduced to injure players, it was to better position yourself to wrestle. When this is what you practice it becomes what you do. Players now need to practice a different way to tackle so that their default is not a hip drop. That different way is the legs tackles that was taught 30 years ago when I was young.
P.s. I now feel like an old man.
Click to expand...
The tackle Mahoney put on Tuilagi was the perfect example of a good legs tackle. Kelma was stopped in his tracks and hit the ground like a bag of spuds that saved a try. It would have been a problem had it been closer to the line as Kelma could have reached out as no other cowboys were there to help.
 
gregjm87 said:
Where I believe I differ from most, I actually like the fact that the NRL was getting serious about punishing the hip drop. We have literally seen that tackle end careers yet alone many a players season. It should be stamped out of the game.
I hate many of the arguments put forth justifying the hip drop tackle. 'No intent/accident", "what else is he supposed to do" or "it's just a legs tackles". None of these arguments hold any weight in my opinion.
I believe we are very much on the same page as you and others when it comes to the NRL changing their stance from one month to the next. We saw at least two other tackles that were worthy of suspension not get punished over the weekend.
The usual cycle is NRL want to crackdown on something. The punishments increase. Fans upset about the punishments. NRL takes a softer stance. This cycle needs to stop as it just leads to more BS such as "Api was only suspended because he is a Tiger".
NRL need to stand by their decisions for a season. Then if they do need to wind it back do it in the offseason.
Click to expand...
But then you get the crap of letting off Cory Paix because it was his knee rather than his hip that landed on Takehaio,s leg breaking it in 2 places and putting him out for the season. It was still the same tackling technique of grabbing from behind and using weight to bring the man down. NRL is a farce.
 
EllisFan said:
Yeah, that’s the thing mate.

The game has used the shoulder charge to advertise itself as a brutal sport quite recently, and yet now they will penalise for an accidental clip on the chin that wouldn’t bruise a grape.

An all of game forum is needed to decide what this sport is going forward.

The warrior like sport we all grew up with, or fairy floss.
Click to expand...
Great comments. I’m over some of the Academy Award worthy acting that occurs with some players that have been tackled from behind.
We’ve been through the ‘wrestling on the ground’ era (pioneered successfully by Melbourne Storm) and now there is the stay down, roll around holding your ankle phase. Surely this is forming part of the pre game tactical game plan to reduce the number of opposition players on field at critical times, sent to the bin for hip-drops.
Obviously some players are genuinely hurt but, come on, some of the interpretations of a hip-drop are outrageous.
 
Telltails said:
The hardest working effort players will be the most likely to get cited and injured - hence Api's rap sheet
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Its also usually a smaller guy on a bigger guy, gets twisted around in the larger guys momentum. I think it has gone away from the classic hip drop where a tackler would grab a player around the waist and basically drop down in place to stop forward momentum and get them on their backs and in most cases land on the back of their legs. We are at a point now where mitigating circumstances or zero intent are thrown out the window as soon as a player stays down injured. Something needs to change when mitigating circumstances and smaller guy on bigger guy equation is factored in. Maybe a free replacement from the extended bench if a player is injured (they cant come back on)...or bring back a 5 min sin bin for no intent and mitigating circumstances.
 
user118245 said:
we extended another junior back rower. Apakuki Ma’afu, in hmatts (I think) this year but not sure how long the deal is. I couldn’t get screenshot to upload but it’s on @ultramanagement on Instagram
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One of the standouts in the games he played for a poor Balmain in Harold Matts this season. A raw tackle-busting backrower who has very good contact in defence. Part of the CUBS (17-19yos) squad recently announced.
 
Mccarry said:
I worry because his development has been disrupted with injury and now we disrupt his game time.

Compare it to how Manly and Bulldogs (Woods) are bringing on their halves. Lots of game time in Reserve grade, or how Storm brought on Grant etc.
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It's a delicate issue to deal with ie. keeping a top junior in reggies.
They all want to play NRL so how much do you pay them to hang around?
If they are potentially that good, they get offers from other clubs or are shopped by their managers for a better deal. A bidding war? Then it becomes a challenge to put a price on their worth versus risk.
Ultimately the player must make the call. How confident are they that they will make it.
Other clubs can be ruthless, and circumstances can change very rapidly. An opening for an NRL position can disappear overnight with a new signing you didn't see coming and were never told about by the destination club. Then you become their depth player.
Ultimately it comes back to how well they were helped to get there by the incumbent club. Loyalty, support, sticking with mates, club culture and the club's future trajectory.
Big decisions for the club and player, with fingers crossed, to get it right.
 
Odessa said:
If someone goes past you now how do you tackle them ?

How do you chase a winger down ?

Maybe it should but like tag when the player gets past you it's just a tag on the back ?
Click to expand...
There’s different ways of tackling and landing on legs.
If a player goes past, and you lunge for him and come down with him, extended and your torso is on the lower leg, generally - that’s play on,
When you loose both your legs in a forward motion, loose control and your rump lands on the lower leg, then you have a problem.
The latter often happens to Api,
it’s a combination of his technique, being so lightweight and the amount of defending he usually has to do (playing for Tigers)
 
upthetigers said:
I don't think he'd handle the defensive workload
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With all the banging on about how good Madden was with Doueihi - Dunno why Luai wasn’t moved to 9.
It doesn’t even seem like it might be an option?
Decent defender, decent size body and he’s not here next year anyhow.

Don’t know he’s done enough in the halves to hold his spot indefinitely…
 
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