Sironen & the Back Row

[Tigermama]

Sirro just doesn't run good lines. Whether it's his fault or coach instructions, he seems to just run straight at the opposite half, with no attempt to get on their outside shoulder or pick a gap. He doesn't have the gait or aggressiveness to cause too many issues doing just that. We've seen Halatau, a bloke half his size and width, score tries by hitting a hole at the right time.
Personally I'd prefer a back row of Sue, Lawrence and Taupau, with a bench of Ava, Lodge, Akauola and Halatau.

I'd also like to see Taylor use his bench with more of an emphasis on rotation than straight platoon swaps. I understand that it's difficult with limited interchange, but it seems like his only options are Woods-Keef-Marty or Ava-Lodge-Sue/Halatau. Mix it up a bit!

10' Keef off for Ava
30' Ava, Woods, Marty off; Keef, Lodge and Akauola on (Sue to prop)
35' Halatau for Lawrence, Lodge to prop, Halatau to lock.
55' Marty for Keef, Ava for Lodge, Lawrence for Sue.
60' Woods for Halatau, Taupau to lock
70' Lodge for Lawrence.

It's not perfect, but it's an example of mixing up the playing group while maintaining an offensive and defensive threat across the full 80.

Galloway only plays 35 minutes, but he's on through the middle when we traditionally struggle.
Marty plays 55, Woods plays 50, important minutes to start and finish.
Ava plays 45 and Lodge gets 35 (20 at prop).
Sue plays 55 straight, with 20 at prop.
Lawrence plays 50, Akauola 50 and Halatau 45.

No backrower plays more than 55 minutes, and we finish big with a pack of Woods, Ava, Akauola, Marty (on the edge) and Lodge.
It's definitely not JT ball, but I'd love to see it, and Halatau/Lawrence can be swapped for Sirro/Santi depending on injury, form or personal preference.

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Good post Vanilla, i like the sound of that. If only JT would.

 

[ryanda01]

Sirro just doesn't run good lines. Whether it's his fault or coach instructions, he seems to just run straight at the opposite half, with no attempt to get on their outside shoulder or pick a gap. He doesn't have the gait or aggressiveness to cause too many issues doing just that. We've seen Halatau, a bloke half his size and width, score tries by hitting a hole at the right time.
Personally I'd prefer a back row of Sue, Lawrence and Taupau, with a bench of Ava, Lodge, Akauola and Halatau.

I'd also like to see Taylor use his bench with more of an emphasis on rotation than straight platoon swaps. I understand that it's difficult with limited interchange, but it seems like his only options are Woods-Keef-Marty or Ava-Lodge-Sue/Halatau. Mix it up a bit!

10' Keef off for Ava
30' Ava, Woods, Marty off; Keef, Lodge and Akauola on (Sue to prop)
35' Halatau for Lawrence, Lodge to prop, Halatau to lock.
55' Marty for Keef, Ava for Lodge, Lawrence for Sue.
60' Woods for Halatau, Taupau to lock
70' Lodge for Lawrence.

It's not perfect, but it's an example of mixing up the playing group while maintaining an offensive and defensive threat across the full 80.

Galloway only plays 35 minutes, but he's on through the middle when we traditionally struggle.
Marty plays 55, Woods plays 50, important minutes to start and finish.
Ava plays 45 and Lodge gets 35 (20 at prop).
Sue plays 55 straight, with 20 at prop.
Lawrence plays 50, Akauola 50 and Halatau 45.

No backrower plays more than 55 minutes, and we finish big with a pack of Woods, Ava, Akauola, Marty (on the edge) and Lodge.
It's definitely not JT ball, but I'd love to see it, and Halatau/Lawrence can be swapped for Sirro/Santi depending on injury, form or personal preference.

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Good post Vanilla, i like the sound of that. If only JT would.

I don't know if defensively its a smart move. Given some of the challenges with our smaller players getting targeted, I think we need some stability in the left right back row / half defense.

Apart from that, think it looks good for attack.

 

[balmain boy]

It's a completely difference ball game transitioning from a playmaker to a second rower. If he was a centre or lock in sg ball and nyc he might be ready to go by now but his entire on field mentality has had to switch from playmaker passing and kicking for the team to a rampaging bull. Very, very rare for this transition to be made.

Even other back rowers who have transitioned frmo the halves to back row play more ball playing roles like Anasta. Sirro is used as a bettering ram and he's not used to it.

He can't play 80 mins doing that either. Some time coming off the bench where he can rip in as that barnstorming forward and then have a breather would be highly beneficial to his development.

Also those stats are wrong as Sirro has made a couple of breaks this season. Not a lot, but he has made a few.

Also , good to see we've already abandoned the idea of playing his brother as a playmaker in NYC. Learn the role he'll play for most of his career.

 

[Jerry_Seinfeld]

He has only played 24 games in the backrow in his life. It takes a while to develop in the backrow. He also is being used flat at the line a lot which to me isn't when he should be getting the ball

I think it is ridiculous the way he is being used…like a battering ram with flat passes and the defense in his face.

The kid has skills so lets use them.....he should be getting the ball early with Teddy floating off him!!

That's the problem Simon , when we run a play when Sironen gets the ball when he isn't flat Teddy is the decoy for the 2nd man 2nd man play

If we could finally get our hands on a quality back rower next year I would prefer to see a free running Sironen at lock free to roam on either side of the paddock in attack.

 

[TrueTiger]

He has only played 24 games in the backrow in his life. It takes a while to develop in the backrow. He also is being used flat at the line a lot which to me isn't when he should be getting the ball

I think it is ridiculous the way he is being used…like a battering ram with flat passes and the defense in his face.

The kid has skills so lets use them.....he should be getting the ball early with Teddy floating off him!!

That's the problem Simon , when we run a play when Sironen gets the ball when he isn't flat Teddy is the decoy for the 2nd man 2nd man play

If we could finally get our hands on a quality back rower next year I would prefer to see a free running Sironen at lock free to roam on either side of the paddock in attack.

Jerry I agree,however,Sirro is like Brooks,Moses and Teddy…they are not allowed to roam free and create opportunities......they must stick to the "structure implemented"..........

 

[Silentio]

Sironen is 21.

He has played for three coaches and in multiple positions in an ever changing team.

He only has 40 something games under his belt, even less in the forwards.

And the pressure of being son of a legend of the game.

I reckon he's doing ok!

He's playing solidly which is really all you can expect at this stage of his career.

He has amazing skills but it might take a few years before they become a regular part of his game.

 

[yeti]

He needs to be used in a similar fashion to Pritchard at the Dogs. Perhaps we just don't have the quality inside him to make this happen.

 

[Goose]

They have him playing a really defined role (like most players in the team)

He is doing ok IMO, he is very good when we are on the front foot, not a great player we are not going forward.

Id like to see them let him play and show his skill, he is still learning, no doubt, and has a way to go, but think his talent will come to the forefront.

 

[Masterton]

I suspect Taylor wants us to play some some short flat passes, and poor Sirro just happens to be the best option of a sorry bunch. Of our edge players, Simona is wasted at the line and we know Lawrence's lack of success. From memory, Lovett has scored one try from a Brooks forward pass. Hoeter is lightweight.

I'm hoping Dave might eventually be successful in this role.

 

[ryanda01]

Sironen is 21.

He has played for three coaches and in multiple positions in an ever changing team.

He only has 40 something games under his belt, even less in the forwards.

And the pressure of being son of a legend of the game.

I reckon he's doing ok!

He's playing solidly which is really all you can expect at this stage of his career.

He has amazing skills but it might take a few years before they become a regular part of his game.

Silentio joined Monday; first post is this one. Welcome Curtis to the forum!

Joking aside, +1\. With the correct mentoring, it should do alright.

 

[Tigerdave]

Sirro just doesn't run good lines. Whether it's his fault or coach instructions, he seems to just run straight at the opposite half, with no attempt to get on their outside shoulder or pick a gap. He doesn't have the gait or aggressiveness to cause too many issues doing just that.
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Was going to say this as well. He's just being used to run directly at the opposition, ineffective for him and the side tbh.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Sironen is 21.

He has played for three coaches and in multiple positions in an ever changing team.

He only has 40 something games under his belt, even less in the forwards.

And the pressure of being son of a legend of the game.

I reckon he's doing ok!

He's playing solidly which is really all you can expect at this stage of his career.

He has amazing skills but it might take a few years before they become a regular part of his game.

Good first up post Silentio, welcome and don't stay quiet.

 

[coopy]

I think the problem is the structure.

We just don't use edge back rowers effectively (they are not Robinson Carsuso on that account either as Wests currently don't use their centres or wingers well either).

Lots of flat balls, no depth or early ball. Like most of our attack it is fairly pedestrian and predictable. Someone mentioned that the line running is poor as well and I would have to agree. There is not "outside-in" runs or variation.

What is most dissapponting though is the lack of second phase play in the middle third. Sirro is a large human being and he could get offloads to the outside men but I think it's being coached out of him.

Safety first footy. Just tuck it under the wing young man and run.

 

[stevetiger]

I think the problem is the structure.

I think most of us agree that our structures are ordinary. The funny thing is that Taylor always mentions his structures as being the solution to us winning games.

I think Taylor's structures aren't working and he needs to try and get the most out of the players that he has. Sironen is just one example of Taylor not being able to do this.