The Immortals

@rustycage said in [The Immortals](/post/1304950) said:
@papacito said in [The Immortals](/post/1304945) said:
Andrew Johns had a massive impact on the game and achieved a lot. **Party drugs are obviously not a good thing, but it's not like they enhanced performance.**

As much as I dislike Cameron Smith, he has also had a huge impact. 400+ games in a tough position, premiership wins and the way he dominated origin for so long is remarkable.

Im no doctor, but I have had cocaine. I've felt the effects and can assure you that energy levels are significantly increased as are levels of alertness.

I'm sure you and everyone else here knows this but I'll put it out there anyway...

Cocaine is a stimulant drug, so it speeds up the messages traveling between the brain and the rest of the body.

Other notable effects of using cocaine include but obviously aren't limited to - confidence, feeling strong, and an indifference to pain.

Johns' record is tainted. I believe he's the best player I've watched, but also recognise that a lot of his actions were probably aided by his use and therefore he shouldn't be an immortal


So your saying coke + nrl player = Johns?

Anyone's dealer do house calls? get them to swing by concord one training session please.
 
@truetiger said in [The Immortals](/post/1304869) said:
@jirskyr said in [The Immortals](/post/1304862) said:
@diedpretty said in [The Immortals](/post/1304856) said:
@cochise said in [The Immortals](/post/1304855) said:
Off field achievements are not considered.

Thats not what it says in consideration

I wonder then are they thinking about stripping Changa of his Immortality since he was charged shortly before his death?

jirskyr,I cant cop the excuse that Joey Johns had a bipolar disorder so he had to be a party animal and take cocaine to help him get through his games...please...he was a brilliant player that rugby league needed,especially Newcastle to stay in the NRL..that doesnt excuse his actions...
One of the greatest halfbacks to ever play the game who I personally know was a cronic asthmatic and had to have a puffer before,at halftime and after the game everytime he played..that was Steve "Turvey"Mortimer,he went to a doctor and was given legal drugs perscribed for him as treatment...who was Johns doctor?I bet most would love to go to him for their ailments...

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that despite whatever text is written down, the ultimate endorsement of an Immortal appears to turn a blind eye to off-field persona in the face of overwhelming on-field impact.

So I don't expect it's going to change for Joey, nor do I expect anyone will stop Cam Smith becoming an Immortal eventually, even if half of all supporters hate his guts.
 
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304988) said:
@diedpretty said in [The Immortals](/post/1304841) said:
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304828) said:
The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.


On Andrew Johns - you are kidding aren't you :

Not long after the incident he released his 'tell-all' autobiography that went into further details regarding his depression and drug use while playing in the NRL.

The ARU released a press statement shortly after the controversy arose, stating that Johns' drug use was known to the ARU and was a key factor in its decision to not proceed with contractual negotiations in 2004. Brett Robinson, then high-performance unit manager, said that, as well as Johns' age and injury history, the knowledge of his drug taking had been influential in the ARU making its final decision.[15]

The guy was on drugs while he was playing. It wasn't a one time party drug episode after the season.

Cocaine effects last what....10 or 15 minutes? So unless he was giving it a nudge in the changeroom immediately before running out, on the field at 10 minute intervals and again in the changeroom at halftime it would have zero effect on his playing ability. Outside of that it would be detrimental to his on-field capabilities.
Did he say in his book that he was taking it during the 80 minutes of actual gametime?

Bit longer than that but your point is accurate
 
@tigerbalm said in [The Immortals](/post/1304994) said:
@rustycage said in [The Immortals](/post/1304950) said:
@papacito said in [The Immortals](/post/1304945) said:
Andrew Johns had a massive impact on the game and achieved a lot. **Party drugs are obviously not a good thing, but it's not like they enhanced performance.**

As much as I dislike Cameron Smith, he has also had a huge impact. 400+ games in a tough position, premiership wins and the way he dominated origin for so long is remarkable.

Im no doctor, but I have had cocaine. I've felt the effects and can assure you that energy levels are significantly increased as are levels of alertness.

I'm sure you and everyone else here knows this but I'll put it out there anyway...

Cocaine is a stimulant drug, so it speeds up the messages traveling between the brain and the rest of the body.

Other notable effects of using cocaine include but obviously aren't limited to - confidence, feeling strong, and an indifference to pain.

Johns' record is tainted. I believe he's the best player I've watched, but also recognise that a lot of his actions were probably aided by his use and therefore he shouldn't be an immortal


So your saying coke + nrl player = Johns?

Anyone's dealer do house calls? get them to swing by concord one training session please.

No, I'm not saying that. And I'm pretty sure you'd know that.
 
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304988) said:
@diedpretty said in [The Immortals](/post/1304841) said:
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304828) said:
The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.


On Andrew Johns - you are kidding aren't you :

Not long after the incident he released his 'tell-all' autobiography that went into further details regarding his depression and drug use while playing in the NRL.

The ARU released a press statement shortly after the controversy arose, stating that Johns' drug use was known to the ARU and was a key factor in its decision to not proceed with contractual negotiations in 2004. Brett Robinson, then high-performance unit manager, said that, as well as Johns' age and injury history, the knowledge of his drug taking had been influential in the ARU making its final decision.[15]

The guy was on drugs while he was playing. It wasn't a one time party drug episode after the season.

Cocaine effects last what....10 or 15 minutes? So unless he was giving it a nudge in the changeroom immediately before running out, on the field at 10 minute intervals and again in the changeroom at halftime it would have zero effect on his playing ability. Outside of that it would be detrimental to his on-field capabilities.
Did he say in his book that he was taking it during the 80 minutes of actual gametime?

He's never admit to taking it during a game, but who really knows. The effects can last a fair bit longer than 10-15 minutes though. It could also assist with training. I guess my point is, his actions imo, don't point towards being a worthy recipient of so called immortal status.
 
I think there has been a misunderstanding? The word immortal may conjure thoughts of some mythological being or to quote the present day vernacular “a freak “ but the players are actually human with vulnerabilities and capable of mistakes. The game thrusts players onto a pedestal, not because of the mistakes they make, but regardless of them. I would rather celebrate the good things people do in their lives.
 
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304988) said:
@diedpretty said in [The Immortals](/post/1304841) said:
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304828) said:
The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.


On Andrew Johns - you are kidding aren't you :

Not long after the incident he released his 'tell-all' autobiography that went into further details regarding his depression and drug use while playing in the NRL.

The ARU released a press statement shortly after the controversy arose, stating that Johns' drug use was known to the ARU and was a key factor in its decision to not proceed with contractual negotiations in 2004. Brett Robinson, then high-performance unit manager, said that, as well as Johns' age and injury history, the knowledge of his drug taking had been influential in the ARU making its final decision.[15]

The guy was on drugs while he was playing. It wasn't a one time party drug episode after the season.

Cocaine effects last what....10 or 15 minutes? So unless he was giving it a nudge in the changeroom immediately before running out, on the field at 10 minute intervals and again in the changeroom at halftime it would have zero effect on his playing ability. Outside of that it would be detrimental to his on-field capabilities.
Did he say in his book that he was taking it during the 80 minutes of actual gametime?


If you’re going off experience of only lasting 10-15 minutes, you got ripped off.
 
Great arguments but most legends in all sports have flaws. It probably goes with the fame and money. I was at school with Tim Brasher and he had girls following him around and guys wanting but be associated with him.
Andrew Johns was the best player I have ever seen. I have no issues with Cam Smith, JT and Billy Slater become immortals. I would love to see Brett Kenny in this company. Brillant in attack and defence.
 
@rustycage said in [The Immortals](/post/1305005) said:
@tigerbalm said in [The Immortals](/post/1304994) said:
@rustycage said in [The Immortals](/post/1304950) said:
@papacito said in [The Immortals](/post/1304945) said:
Andrew Johns had a massive impact on the game and achieved a lot. **Party drugs are obviously not a good thing, but it's not like they enhanced performance.**

As much as I dislike Cameron Smith, he has also had a huge impact. 400+ games in a tough position, premiership wins and the way he dominated origin for so long is remarkable.

Im no doctor, but I have had cocaine. I've felt the effects and can assure you that energy levels are significantly increased as are levels of alertness.

I'm sure you and everyone else here knows this but I'll put it out there anyway...

Cocaine is a stimulant drug, so it speeds up the messages traveling between the brain and the rest of the body.

Other notable effects of using cocaine include but obviously aren't limited to - confidence, feeling strong, and an indifference to pain.

Johns' record is tainted. I believe he's the best player I've watched, but also recognise that a lot of his actions were probably aided by his use and therefore he shouldn't be an immortal


So your saying coke + nrl player = Johns?

Anyone's dealer do house calls? get them to swing by concord one training session please.

No, I'm not saying that. And I'm pretty sure you'd know that.

Oh. Honestly I thought you were joking.

Cocaine is 100% not a performance enhancing drug. To honestly think it is and that it played a part in John's career is pretty stupid sorry. If anything, it would have had a negative impact on his career. and lol at change room snorting. Come on man. Halftime they massaged and lined up? lol

I'm all for a bit of John's bashing cause he seemed like a tosser, even late in his career and post career he was still at it but you cant deny he had natural, raw talent.
 
@swordy said in [The Immortals](/post/1304897) said:
These guys are footballers. If you counted off field stuff, not a single player would ever be an immortal. Not one.

Big statement.
I am certainly aware that their ability is not Immortal-standard but if it was, what would players such as Brett Hodgson, Chris Lawrence, Skando etc etc have done off-field that would prevent them from being recognised as an Immortal? Them and hundreds (thousands) of players have done nothing off-field to tarnish their reputations.
 
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1305017) said:
@swordy said in [The Immortals](/post/1304897) said:
These guys are footballers. If you counted off field stuff, not a single player would ever be an immortal. Not one.

Big statement.
I am certainly aware that their ability is not Immortal-standard but if it was, what would players such as Brett Hodgson, Chris Lawrence, Skando etc etc have done off-field that would prevent them from being recognised as an Immortal? Them and hundreds (thousands) of players have done nothing off-field to tarnish their reputations.

I agree to some extent in as far as I understand what you're saying and I'm not going to tarnish those guys directly.

But I can't believe for a moment that with what goes on at footballing trips, pubs, celebrations etc, (of which I have also been a part, don't get me wrong) where footballers cut loose, that many footballers are not necessarily active participants, but are certainly standing back and letting things go on without putting a stop to it.
 
@diedpretty said in [The Immortals](/post/1304854) said:
@bagnf05 said in [The Immortals](/post/1304850) said:
@diedpretty said in [The Immortals](/post/1304846) said:
@bagnf05 said in [The Immortals](/post/1304845) said:
@diedpretty said in [The Immortals](/post/1304841) said:
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304828) said:
The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.


On Andrew Johns - you are kidding aren't you :

Not long after the incident he released his 'tell-all' autobiography that went into further details regarding his depression and drug use while playing in the NRL.

The ARU released a press statement shortly after the controversy arose, stating that Johns' drug use was known to the ARU and was a key factor in its decision to not proceed with contractual negotiations in 2004. Brett Robinson, then high-performance unit manager, said that, as well as Johns' age and injury history, the knowledge of his drug taking had been influential in the ARU making its final decision.[15]

The guy was on drugs while he was playing. It wasn't a one time party drug episode after the season.

Have read Joey’s book and he was a self-confessed party animal suffering from bipolar disorder. But he somehow managed to maintain his performance at the highest of high levels. Joey would look at the draw and work out when he had a long week, a Friday night game, and that would be a two day bender. That’s not performance enhancing, it’s not healthy but not PE. Joey also lead a small-town battling club to two premierships, he didn’t rely on a billion dollar news Ltd machine that lied and cheated its way to success.

Yeah right - you take drugs - you play - and it doesn't help - ok - I'm glad Joey explained that. Its not even the point any way - the question is - should he have been considered an Immortal when it was Known he was taking drugs while he was playing? Other player have been excluded from the game for taking party drugs.

he was combining those drugs with copious amounts of alcohol, so he certainly wasn’t treating his body as a temple and there’s no way he was gaining any physical edge. You could argue it was a mental release for him but I think that’s a stretch. Guess it depends on your own view of greatness, is what happens when he leaves the field relevant? On it he was the best I’ve seen.

I get where you are coming from - he was an absolute great footballer - one of the best - what i' am getting at is the tag of Immortalitalty given out loosely - should it be about achievements on the field and exemplary behaviour off the field including what you give back to the game afterwards or just about your performance on the field even tough you were you were absolute dropkick.

I don’t think rugby league is a sport that ever claimed to represent tee totallers or those few humans who never made a mistake or two.
 
@bagnf05 said in [The Immortals](/post/1305107) said:
@diedpretty said in [The Immortals](/post/1304854) said:
@bagnf05 said in [The Immortals](/post/1304850) said:
@diedpretty said in [The Immortals](/post/1304846) said:
@bagnf05 said in [The Immortals](/post/1304845) said:
@diedpretty said in [The Immortals](/post/1304841) said:
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304828) said:
The cheat has been allowed to do whatever he wants so far, he tells the NRL what to do, not the other way round. The maggot will get his name on the Immortals bill no doubt, probably get the NRL to name the exclusive honour after himself as well. The NRL are as weak of a sporting organisation as you can get.
Joey only used recreational drugs, wasn't caught using any PED's during his career, no problem with him being there. If they get caught using say cocaine or amphetamine during the season then that is a form of PED in my eyes. Like Naden. Should've had the book thrown at him IMO. Still laughable how the NRL found Naden's cocaine use to be "not in season", when it is extremely probable he used it within a day or 2 of the Grand Final.


On Andrew Johns - you are kidding aren't you :

Not long after the incident he released his 'tell-all' autobiography that went into further details regarding his depression and drug use while playing in the NRL.

The ARU released a press statement shortly after the controversy arose, stating that Johns' drug use was known to the ARU and was a key factor in its decision to not proceed with contractual negotiations in 2004. Brett Robinson, then high-performance unit manager, said that, as well as Johns' age and injury history, the knowledge of his drug taking had been influential in the ARU making its final decision.[15]

The guy was on drugs while he was playing. It wasn't a one time party drug episode after the season.

Have read Joey’s book and he was a self-confessed party animal suffering from bipolar disorder. But he somehow managed to maintain his performance at the highest of high levels. Joey would look at the draw and work out when he had a long week, a Friday night game, and that would be a two day bender. That’s not performance enhancing, it’s not healthy but not PE. Joey also lead a small-town battling club to two premierships, he didn’t rely on a billion dollar news Ltd machine that lied and cheated its way to success.

Yeah right - you take drugs - you play - and it doesn't help - ok - I'm glad Joey explained that. Its not even the point any way - the question is - should he have been considered an Immortal when it was Known he was taking drugs while he was playing? Other player have been excluded from the game for taking party drugs.

he was combining those drugs with copious amounts of alcohol, so he certainly wasn’t treating his body as a temple and there’s no way he was gaining any physical edge. You could argue it was a mental release for him but I think that’s a stretch. Guess it depends on your own view of greatness, is what happens when he leaves the field relevant? On it he was the best I’ve seen.

I get where you are coming from - he was an absolute great footballer - one of the best - what i' am getting at is the tag of Immortalitalty given out loosely - should it be about achievements on the field and exemplary behaviour off the field including what you give back to the game afterwards or just about your performance on the field even tough you were you were absolute dropkick.

I don’t think rugby league is a sport that ever claimed to represent tee totallers or those few humans who never made a mistake or two.

I agree BANGF05.

Whilst I'm not a fan of the man personally, Andrew Johns is the best and most complete footballer I have ever seen.

Mal Meninga's achievements on the field were exceptional at club, state and international level when you read his record.

I can't take to Cameron Smith, but his time will come and again, you can't deny the man's record.

Being a Queensland resident (but a blues supporter), all I ever here about is JT, Inglis, Cronk, Lockyer etc and how they should be instant immortals. Thurston carried his club side single handedly for years and he is well ahead of Inglis and Lockyer IMO.

If the rumours (and some truths I know to be 100% fact) I hear about one of those 'golden boys' is true regarding him off the field, he leaves the others for dead in the grub stakes. It would shock many up here, that's for sure.

Every name I have mentioned here has issues, but I judge the on-field stuff. If it was 'on and off' field, you'd have no nominees.
 
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304985) said:
@happy_tiger said in [The Immortals](/post/1304949) said:
And maybe we should exclude Thurston because he was a tool until his Uncle died and Slater because he was a Storm player

Lets throw Lewis in their because he has epilepsy and just got divorced

Noel Kelly threw one too many punches on the field ....

Johnny Raper's smile was too big perhaps

Go back on the nod Hap, it's been a big day.

My point is Smith got better after the Storm saga

If you take those seasons out and rate him as a footballer he is still an immortal ....I think Johns still qualifies ..but he was kept out of his main position at SOO level for a while .....
 
@happy_tiger said in [The Immortals](/post/1305166) said:
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304985) said:
@happy_tiger said in [The Immortals](/post/1304949) said:
And maybe we should exclude Thurston because he was a tool until his Uncle died and Slater because he was a Storm player

Lets throw Lewis in their because he has epilepsy and just got divorced

Noel Kelly threw one too many punches on the field ....

Johnny Raper's smile was too big perhaps

Go back on the nod Hap, it's been a big day.

My point is Smith got better after the Storm saga

If you take those seasons out and rate him as a footballer he is still an immortal ....I think Johns still qualifies ..but he was kept out of his main position at SOO level for a while .....

I don't reckon Johns was kept out of his position. I reckon he was that good, they could put him anywhere and he was better than the next best. Played Hooker for a while to accommodate Barret, Kimmorley and others. They weren't better than him, Its just Johns could play anywhere and still be influential.
 
@swordy said in [The Immortals](/post/1305257) said:
@happy_tiger said in [The Immortals](/post/1305166) said:
@fade-to-black said in [The Immortals](/post/1304985) said:
@happy_tiger said in [The Immortals](/post/1304949) said:
And maybe we should exclude Thurston because he was a tool until his Uncle died and Slater because he was a Storm player

Lets throw Lewis in their because he has epilepsy and just got divorced

Noel Kelly threw one too many punches on the field ....

Johnny Raper's smile was too big perhaps

Go back on the nod Hap, it's been a big day.

My point is Smith got better after the Storm saga

If you take those seasons out and rate him as a footballer he is still an immortal ....I think Johns still qualifies ..but he was kept out of his main position at SOO level for a while .....

I don't reckon Johns was kept out of his position. I reckon he was that good, they could put him anywhere and he was better than the next best. Played Hooker for a while to accommodate Barret, Kimmorley and others. They weren't better than him, Its just Johns could play anywhere and still be influential.

Lets be honest ...Tommy did it so Goddard could light his ass up like a Xmas tree ......lol
 
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