The proposed News Media Laws

[Tiger5150]

It is so much easier to regulate a newspaper or tv channel with domestic legislation, compared to these global monopolies.

That's the part I don't know if folks really understand. The legislation appears to be less about "copyright" protection and more about managing monopolies.

The whole point of the ACCC finding is that Google and Facebook have developed themselves into a position where they monopolise things like ad revenue, media distribution etc.

I see all these comments saying "too bad, that's business", but that's such a naive position to take regarding emerging / entrenched monopolies.

Tax their revenue then, a bit like GST but more like the NSW gaming machine tax. Do that for every organisation that has multi billion dollar revenue, not just ones you don’t like.


What part of their revenue, *earned within Australia*, is not taxed? If my company places an ad/adwords/targetted marketing on Google or Facebook, I pay GST.

Yes but your company can offset that GST tax by the GST on purchases. You only actually pay the difference. That’s why I said more like the NSW gaming machine tax. It’s based on pure revenue and there are no offsets. Straight up tax on revenue received by the company.


Mike with respect, thats not how corporate tax works. No company in Australia pays tax on revenue. All revenue is offset by cost of goods sold, in effect company tax is tax on gross profit. Effectively the same as GST.

Google & Facebook, like any other company trading within Australia, pay GST on ***all*** of their sales which is ***ONLY*** offset by purchases of goods and services ***purchased in Australia*** so its a pretty good mechanism to get tax out (or at least money returned to the Aus economy) of a massive international company like FB/Google because they obviously have all of their international companies set up at a gross loss.

I know that’s not how it works now but neither is taxing hyperlinks. I know many companies set themselves up for gross loss.

I havent really been following this direct issue as closely as I should but is the intention to TAX Google/FB or force them to pay content creators?

But instead of changing the way the Internet works how about we fix the real tax issue instead.

Always room for real tax reform as long as it improves productivity. I am NOT a fan of taxing companies or industries differently though. Make one (set of) law and tax everyone the same.

Edit: But clubs and pubs in NSW pay tax now on gaming machine revenue, not profit or loss.

Because it is a ***State tariff*** and forms part of costs of goods sold and in effect is a deduction for **Federal** Company Tax

 

[mike]

It is so much easier to regulate a newspaper or tv channel with domestic legislation, compared to these global monopolies.

That's the part I don't know if folks really understand. The legislation appears to be less about "copyright" protection and more about managing monopolies.

The whole point of the ACCC finding is that Google and Facebook have developed themselves into a position where they monopolise things like ad revenue, media distribution etc.

I see all these comments saying "too bad, that's business", but that's such a naive position to take regarding emerging / entrenched monopolies.

Tax their revenue then, a bit like GST but more like the NSW gaming machine tax. Do that for every organisation that has multi billion dollar revenue, not just ones you don’t like.


What part of their revenue, *earned within Australia*, is not taxed? If my company places an ad/adwords/targetted marketing on Google or Facebook, I pay GST.

Yes but your company can offset that GST tax by the GST on purchases. You only actually pay the difference. That’s why I said more like the NSW gaming machine tax. It’s based on pure revenue and there are no offsets. Straight up tax on revenue received by the company.


Mike with respect, thats not how corporate tax works. No company in Australia pays tax on revenue. All revenue is offset by cost of goods sold, in effect company tax is tax on gross profit. Effectively the same as GST.

Google & Facebook, like any other company trading within Australia, pay GST on ***all*** of their sales which is ***ONLY*** offset by purchases of goods and services ***purchased in Australia*** so its a pretty good mechanism to get tax out (or at least money returned to the Aus economy) of a massive international company like FB/Google because they obviously have all of their international companies set up at a gross loss.

I know that’s not how it works now but neither is taxing hyperlinks. I know many companies set themselves up for gross loss.

I havent really been following this direct issue as closely as I should but is the intention to TAX Google/FB or force them to pay content creators?

But instead of changing the way the Internet works how about we fix the real tax issue instead.

Always room for real tax reform as long as it improves productivity. **I am NOT a fan of taxing companies or industries differently though**. Make one (set of) law and tax everyone the same.

Edit: But clubs and pubs in NSW pay tax now on gaming machine revenue, not profit or loss.

Because it is a ***State tariff*** and forms part of costs of goods sold and in effect is a deduction for **Federal** Company Tax

But that’s exactly what these laws are trying to do to Facebook and Google.

As I’ve repeated here many times before Google and Facebook don’t need news media content. That’s not how they generate revenue. Facebook and Google don’t publish the news media content the news media corporations do. In fact Facebook currently without news content is a much more appealing place to be.

 

[Tiger5150]

It is so much easier to regulate a newspaper or tv channel with domestic legislation, compared to these global monopolies.

That's the part I don't know if folks really understand. The legislation appears to be less about "copyright" protection and more about managing monopolies.

The whole point of the ACCC finding is that Google and Facebook have developed themselves into a position where they monopolise things like ad revenue, media distribution etc.

I see all these comments saying "too bad, that's business", but that's such a naive position to take regarding emerging / entrenched monopolies.

Tax their revenue then, a bit like GST but more like the NSW gaming machine tax. Do that for every organisation that has multi billion dollar revenue, not just ones you don’t like.


What part of their revenue, *earned within Australia*, is not taxed? If my company places an ad/adwords/targetted marketing on Google or Facebook, I pay GST.

Yes but your company can offset that GST tax by the GST on purchases. You only actually pay the difference. That’s why I said more like the NSW gaming machine tax. It’s based on pure revenue and there are no offsets. Straight up tax on revenue received by the company.


Mike with respect, thats not how corporate tax works. No company in Australia pays tax on revenue. All revenue is offset by cost of goods sold, in effect company tax is tax on gross profit. Effectively the same as GST.

Google & Facebook, like any other company trading within Australia, pay GST on ***all*** of their sales which is ***ONLY*** offset by purchases of goods and services ***purchased in Australia*** so its a pretty good mechanism to get tax out (or at least money returned to the Aus economy) of a massive international company like FB/Google because they obviously have all of their international companies set up at a gross loss.

I know that’s not how it works now but neither is taxing hyperlinks. I know many companies set themselves up for gross loss.

I havent really been following this direct issue as closely as I should but is the intention to TAX Google/FB or force them to pay content creators?

But instead of changing the way the Internet works how about we fix the real tax issue instead.

Always room for real tax reform as long as it improves productivity. **I am NOT a fan of taxing companies or industries differently though**. Make one (set of) law and tax everyone the same.

Edit: But clubs and pubs in NSW pay tax now on gaming machine revenue, not profit or loss.

Because it is a ***State tariff*** and forms part of costs of goods sold and in effect is a deduction for **Federal** Company Tax

But that’s exactly what these laws are trying to do to Facebook and Google.

As I’ve repeated here many times before Google and Facebook don’t need news media content. That’s not how they generate revenue. Facebook and Google don’t publish the news media content the news media corporations do. In fact Facebook currently without news content is a much more appealing place to be.

Genuinely interested in the answer, does the legislation tax them or force them to pay content creators?

 

[Nelson]

It is so much easier to regulate a newspaper or tv channel with domestic legislation, compared to these global monopolies.

That's the part I don't know if folks really understand. The legislation appears to be less about "copyright" protection and more about managing monopolies.

The whole point of the ACCC finding is that Google and Facebook have developed themselves into a position where they monopolise things like ad revenue, media distribution etc.

I see all these comments saying "too bad, that's business", but that's such a naive position to take regarding emerging / entrenched monopolies.

Tax their revenue then, a bit like GST but more like the NSW gaming machine tax. Do that for every organisation that has multi billion dollar revenue, not just ones you don’t like.


What part of their revenue, *earned within Australia*, is not taxed? If my company places an ad/adwords/targetted marketing on Google or Facebook, I pay GST.

Yes but your company can offset that GST tax by the GST on purchases. You only actually pay the difference. That’s why I said more like the NSW gaming machine tax. It’s based on pure revenue and there are no offsets. Straight up tax on revenue received by the company.


Mike with respect, thats not how corporate tax works. No company in Australia pays tax on revenue. All revenue is offset by cost of goods sold, in effect company tax is tax on gross profit. Effectively the same as GST.

Google & Facebook, like any other company trading within Australia, pay GST on ***all*** of their sales which is ***ONLY*** offset by purchases of goods and services ***purchased in Australia*** so its a pretty good mechanism to get tax out (or at least money returned to the Aus economy) of a massive international company like FB/Google because they obviously have all of their international companies set up at a gross loss.

I know that’s not how it works now but neither is taxing hyperlinks. I know many companies set themselves up for gross loss.

I havent really been following this direct issue as closely as I should but is the intention to TAX Google/FB or force them to pay content creators?

But instead of changing the way the Internet works how about we fix the real tax issue instead.

Always room for real tax reform as long as it improves productivity. **I am NOT a fan of taxing companies or industries differently though**. Make one (set of) law and tax everyone the same.

Edit: But clubs and pubs in NSW pay tax now on gaming machine revenue, not profit or loss.

Because it is a ***State tariff*** and forms part of costs of goods sold and in effect is a deduction for **Federal** Company Tax

But that’s exactly what these laws are trying to do to Facebook and Google.

As I’ve repeated here many times before Google and Facebook don’t need news media content. That’s not how they generate revenue. Facebook and Google don’t publish the news media content the news media corporations do. In fact Facebook currently without news content is a much more appealing place to be.


Genuinely interested in the answer, does the legislation tax them or force them to pay content creators?

It forces them to negotiate with registered news businesses (who must pass a test for registration) and provides for arbitration in the event that negotiation over remuneration (to the news provider) is not successful. It's an attempt to redistribute advertising profits from the digital platforms back to the news services who have lost a number of their income streams in the digital age and done nothing (effective) to adapt.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

In the immortal words of Qui-Gon Jinn: there's always a bigger fish.

I thought neoliberalism 101 was adapt or die, or does that only apply to small business?

Traditional media make the active decision to engage the public on a social media platform and then the expect a cut? Obviously stories about Bindi's baby bump and Rebel Wilson's weight loss aren't translating to clicks to the channel 7 website.

 

[Tiger5150]

It is so much easier to regulate a newspaper or tv channel with domestic legislation, compared to these global monopolies.

That's the part I don't know if folks really understand. The legislation appears to be less about "copyright" protection and more about managing monopolies.

The whole point of the ACCC finding is that Google and Facebook have developed themselves into a position where they monopolise things like ad revenue, media distribution etc.

I see all these comments saying "too bad, that's business", but that's such a naive position to take regarding emerging / entrenched monopolies.

Tax their revenue then, a bit like GST but more like the NSW gaming machine tax. Do that for every organisation that has multi billion dollar revenue, not just ones you don’t like.


What part of their revenue, *earned within Australia*, is not taxed? If my company places an ad/adwords/targetted marketing on Google or Facebook, I pay GST.

Yes but your company can offset that GST tax by the GST on purchases. You only actually pay the difference. That’s why I said more like the NSW gaming machine tax. It’s based on pure revenue and there are no offsets. Straight up tax on revenue received by the company.


Mike with respect, thats not how corporate tax works. No company in Australia pays tax on revenue. All revenue is offset by cost of goods sold, in effect company tax is tax on gross profit. Effectively the same as GST.

Google & Facebook, like any other company trading within Australia, pay GST on ***all*** of their sales which is ***ONLY*** offset by purchases of goods and services ***purchased in Australia*** so its a pretty good mechanism to get tax out (or at least money returned to the Aus economy) of a massive international company like FB/Google because they obviously have all of their international companies set up at a gross loss.

I know that’s not how it works now but neither is taxing hyperlinks. I know many companies set themselves up for gross loss.

I havent really been following this direct issue as closely as I should but is the intention to TAX Google/FB or force them to pay content creators?

But instead of changing the way the Internet works how about we fix the real tax issue instead.

Always room for real tax reform as long as it improves productivity. **I am NOT a fan of taxing companies or industries differently though**. Make one (set of) law and tax everyone the same.

Edit: But clubs and pubs in NSW pay tax now on gaming machine revenue, not profit or loss.

Because it is a ***State tariff*** and forms part of costs of goods sold and in effect is a deduction for **Federal** Company Tax

But that’s exactly what these laws are trying to do to Facebook and Google.

As I’ve repeated here many times before Google and Facebook don’t need news media content. That’s not how they generate revenue. Facebook and Google don’t publish the news media content the news media corporations do. In fact Facebook currently without news content is a much more appealing place to be.


Genuinely interested in the answer, does the legislation tax them or force them to pay content creators?

It forces them to negotiate with registered news businesses (who must pass a test for registration) and provides for arbitration in the event that negotiation over remuneration (to the news provider) is not successful. It's an attempt to redistribute advertising profits from the digital platforms back to the news services who have lost a number of their income streams in the digital age and done nothing (effective) to adapt.

OK...thanks for the info. Again I havent really looked into it enough to have a good grip on it. My instincts are always anti google/FB but News are no better.

That does confirm what I thought though, its not a tax of any form.

 

[gallagher]

It is so much easier to regulate a newspaper or tv channel with domestic legislation, compared to these global monopolies.

That's the part I don't know if folks really understand. The legislation appears to be less about "copyright" protection and more about managing monopolies.

The whole point of the ACCC finding is that Google and Facebook have developed themselves into a position where they monopolise things like ad revenue, media distribution etc.

I see all these comments saying "too bad, that's business", but that's such a naive position to take regarding emerging / entrenched monopolies.

Tax their revenue then, a bit like GST but more like the NSW gaming machine tax. Do that for every organisation that has multi billion dollar revenue, not just ones you don’t like.


What part of their revenue, *earned within Australia*, is not taxed? If my company places an ad/adwords/targetted marketing on Google or Facebook, I pay GST.

Yes but your company can offset that GST tax by the GST on purchases. You only actually pay the difference. That’s why I said more like the NSW gaming machine tax. It’s based on pure revenue and there are no offsets. Straight up tax on revenue received by the company.


Mike with respect, thats not how corporate tax works. No company in Australia pays tax on revenue. All revenue is offset by cost of goods sold, in effect company tax is tax on gross profit. Effectively the same as GST.

Google & Facebook, like any other company trading within Australia, pay GST on ***all*** of their sales which is ***ONLY*** offset by purchases of goods and services ***purchased in Australia*** so its a pretty good mechanism to get tax out (or at least money returned to the Aus economy) of a massive international company like FB/Google because they obviously have all of their international companies set up at a gross loss.

I know that’s not how it works now but neither is taxing hyperlinks. I know many companies set themselves up for gross loss.

I havent really been following this direct issue as closely as I should but is the intention to TAX Google/FB or force them to pay content creators?

But instead of changing the way the Internet works how about we fix the real tax issue instead.

Always room for real tax reform as long as it improves productivity. **I am NOT a fan of taxing companies or industries differently though**. Make one (set of) law and tax everyone the same.

Edit: But clubs and pubs in NSW pay tax now on gaming machine revenue, not profit or loss.

Because it is a ***State tariff*** and forms part of costs of goods sold and in effect is a deduction for **Federal** Company Tax

But that’s exactly what these laws are trying to do to Facebook and Google.

As I’ve repeated here many times before Google and Facebook don’t need news media content. That’s not how they generate revenue. Facebook and Google don’t publish the news media content the news media corporations do. In fact Facebook currently without news content is a much more appealing place to be.


Genuinely interested in the answer, does the legislation tax them or force them to pay content creators?

It forces them to negotiate with registered news businesses (who must pass a test for registration) and provides for arbitration in the event that negotiation over remuneration (to the news provider) is not successful. It's an attempt to redistribute advertising profits from the digital platforms back to the news services who have lost a number of their income streams in the digital age and done nothing (effective) to adapt.

Or they can Just not have them on their platform.

 

[Tiger5150]

It is so much easier to regulate a newspaper or tv channel with domestic legislation, compared to these global monopolies.

That's the part I don't know if folks really understand. The legislation appears to be less about "copyright" protection and more about managing monopolies.

The whole point of the ACCC finding is that Google and Facebook have developed themselves into a position where they monopolise things like ad revenue, media distribution etc.

I see all these comments saying "too bad, that's business", but that's such a naive position to take regarding emerging / entrenched monopolies.

Tax their revenue then, a bit like GST but more like the NSW gaming machine tax. Do that for every organisation that has multi billion dollar revenue, not just ones you don’t like.


What part of their revenue, *earned within Australia*, is not taxed? If my company places an ad/adwords/targetted marketing on Google or Facebook, I pay GST.

Yes but your company can offset that GST tax by the GST on purchases. You only actually pay the difference. That’s why I said more like the NSW gaming machine tax. It’s based on pure revenue and there are no offsets. Straight up tax on revenue received by the company.


Mike with respect, thats not how corporate tax works. No company in Australia pays tax on revenue. All revenue is offset by cost of goods sold, in effect company tax is tax on gross profit. Effectively the same as GST.

Google & Facebook, like any other company trading within Australia, pay GST on ***all*** of their sales which is ***ONLY*** offset by purchases of goods and services ***purchased in Australia*** so its a pretty good mechanism to get tax out (or at least money returned to the Aus economy) of a massive international company like FB/Google because they obviously have all of their international companies set up at a gross loss.

I know that’s not how it works now but neither is taxing hyperlinks. I know many companies set themselves up for gross loss.

I havent really been following this direct issue as closely as I should but is the intention to TAX Google/FB or force them to pay content creators?

But instead of changing the way the Internet works how about we fix the real tax issue instead.

Always room for real tax reform as long as it improves productivity. **I am NOT a fan of taxing companies or industries differently though**. Make one (set of) law and tax everyone the same.

Edit: But clubs and pubs in NSW pay tax now on gaming machine revenue, not profit or loss.

Because it is a ***State tariff*** and forms part of costs of goods sold and in effect is a deduction for **Federal** Company Tax

But that’s exactly what these laws are trying to do to Facebook and Google.

As I’ve repeated here many times before Google and Facebook don’t need news media content. That’s not how they generate revenue. Facebook and Google don’t publish the news media content the news media corporations do. In fact Facebook currently without news content is a much more appealing place to be.


Genuinely interested in the answer, does the legislation tax them or force them to pay content creators?

It forces them to negotiate with registered news businesses (who must pass a test for registration) and provides for arbitration in the event that negotiation over remuneration (to the news provider) is not successful. It's an attempt to redistribute advertising profits from the digital platforms back to the news services who have lost a number of their income streams in the digital age and done nothing (effective) to adapt.

Or they can Just not have them on their platform.

It raises a bigger question (possible not for this thread) but Googs and FB have always declared they are a "platform" and not a publisher. They have been able to get around this differentiation in the US under law Section 23 which gives them the right to remove "morally questionable (porn) posts" that are against decency. The more they wriggle and position themselves to remove information based on politics or now financial liability, surely it gets harder and harder to remain as a "platform"?

 

[mike]

It is so much easier to regulate a newspaper or tv channel with domestic legislation, compared to these global monopolies.

That's the part I don't know if folks really understand. The legislation appears to be less about "copyright" protection and more about managing monopolies.

The whole point of the ACCC finding is that Google and Facebook have developed themselves into a position where they monopolise things like ad revenue, media distribution etc.

I see all these comments saying "too bad, that's business", but that's such a naive position to take regarding emerging / entrenched monopolies.

Tax their revenue then, a bit like GST but more like the NSW gaming machine tax. Do that for every organisation that has multi billion dollar revenue, not just ones you don’t like.


What part of their revenue, *earned within Australia*, is not taxed? If my company places an ad/adwords/targetted marketing on Google or Facebook, I pay GST.

Yes but your company can offset that GST tax by the GST on purchases. You only actually pay the difference. That’s why I said more like the NSW gaming machine tax. It’s based on pure revenue and there are no offsets. Straight up tax on revenue received by the company.


Mike with respect, thats not how corporate tax works. No company in Australia pays tax on revenue. All revenue is offset by cost of goods sold, in effect company tax is tax on gross profit. Effectively the same as GST.

Google & Facebook, like any other company trading within Australia, pay GST on ***all*** of their sales which is ***ONLY*** offset by purchases of goods and services ***purchased in Australia*** so its a pretty good mechanism to get tax out (or at least money returned to the Aus economy) of a massive international company like FB/Google because they obviously have all of their international companies set up at a gross loss.

I know that’s not how it works now but neither is taxing hyperlinks. I know many companies set themselves up for gross loss.

I havent really been following this direct issue as closely as I should but is the intention to TAX Google/FB or force them to pay content creators?

But instead of changing the way the Internet works how about we fix the real tax issue instead.

Always room for real tax reform as long as it improves productivity. **I am NOT a fan of taxing companies or industries differently though**. Make one (set of) law and tax everyone the same.

Edit: But clubs and pubs in NSW pay tax now on gaming machine revenue, not profit or loss.

Because it is a ***State tariff*** and forms part of costs of goods sold and in effect is a deduction for **Federal** Company Tax

But that’s exactly what these laws are trying to do to Facebook and Google.

As I’ve repeated here many times before Google and Facebook don’t need news media content. That’s not how they generate revenue. Facebook and Google don’t publish the news media content the news media corporations do. In fact Facebook currently without news content is a much more appealing place to be.


Genuinely interested in the answer, does the legislation tax them or force them to pay content creators?

It’s not a tax in the traditional sense, but it is a charge overseen by a government body.

https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;page=0;query=BillId:r6652%20Recstruct:billhome

It is supposed to be a negotiation with the news media businesses.

The ACCC will be responsible for administrating and enforcing the code.

There is no definition in the code of how much a news media business can charge.

It only takes effect for news media businesses whose revenue exceeds $150K pa which cuts out many of the independents.

There is also no clear definition of what a news media business is or what a journalist is. It was left out of the final version.

There is no clear definition of what news is either, or what constitutes news content.

Large organisations such as News Corp or the Nine media organisation have an unfair advantage in negotiations over smaller news media organisations. There will be no consistency based on actual news content. Ie how much per item etc.

 

[Tiger5150]

It is so much easier to regulate a newspaper or tv channel with domestic legislation, compared to these global monopolies.

That's the part I don't know if folks really understand. The legislation appears to be less about "copyright" protection and more about managing monopolies.

The whole point of the ACCC finding is that Google and Facebook have developed themselves into a position where they monopolise things like ad revenue, media distribution etc.

I see all these comments saying "too bad, that's business", but that's such a naive position to take regarding emerging / entrenched monopolies.

Tax their revenue then, a bit like GST but more like the NSW gaming machine tax. Do that for every organisation that has multi billion dollar revenue, not just ones you don’t like.


What part of their revenue, *earned within Australia*, is not taxed? If my company places an ad/adwords/targetted marketing on Google or Facebook, I pay GST.

Yes but your company can offset that GST tax by the GST on purchases. You only actually pay the difference. That’s why I said more like the NSW gaming machine tax. It’s based on pure revenue and there are no offsets. Straight up tax on revenue received by the company.


Mike with respect, thats not how corporate tax works. No company in Australia pays tax on revenue. All revenue is offset by cost of goods sold, in effect company tax is tax on gross profit. Effectively the same as GST.

Google & Facebook, like any other company trading within Australia, pay GST on ***all*** of their sales which is ***ONLY*** offset by purchases of goods and services ***purchased in Australia*** so its a pretty good mechanism to get tax out (or at least money returned to the Aus economy) of a massive international company like FB/Google because they obviously have all of their international companies set up at a gross loss.

I know that’s not how it works now but neither is taxing hyperlinks. I know many companies set themselves up for gross loss.

I havent really been following this direct issue as closely as I should but is the intention to TAX Google/FB or force them to pay content creators?

But instead of changing the way the Internet works how about we fix the real tax issue instead.

Always room for real tax reform as long as it improves productivity. **I am NOT a fan of taxing companies or industries differently though**. Make one (set of) law and tax everyone the same.

Edit: But clubs and pubs in NSW pay tax now on gaming machine revenue, not profit or loss.

Because it is a ***State tariff*** and forms part of costs of goods sold and in effect is a deduction for **Federal** Company Tax

But that’s exactly what these laws are trying to do to Facebook and Google.

As I’ve repeated here many times before Google and Facebook don’t need news media content. That’s not how they generate revenue. Facebook and Google don’t publish the news media content the news media corporations do. In fact Facebook currently without news content is a much more appealing place to be.


Genuinely interested in the answer, does the legislation tax them or force them to pay content creators?

It’s not a tax in the traditional sense, but it is a charge overseen by a government body.

https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;page=0;query=BillId:r6652%20Recstruct:billhome

It is supposed to be a negotiation with the news media businesses.

The ACCC will be responsible for administrating and enforcing the code.

There is no definition in the code of how much a news media business can charge.

It only takes effect for news media businesses whose revenue exceeds $150K pa which cuts out many of the independents.

There is also no clear definition of what a news media business is or what a journalist is. It was left out of the final version.

There is no clear definition of what news is either, or what constitutes news content.

Large organisations such as News Corp or the Nine media organisation have an unfair advantage in negotiations over smaller news media organisations. There will be no consistency based on actual news content. Ie how much per item etc.

OK, so not a Tax in any sense (modern or traditional).

 

[mike]

It is so much easier to regulate a newspaper or tv channel with domestic legislation, compared to these global monopolies.

That's the part I don't know if folks really understand. The legislation appears to be less about "copyright" protection and more about managing monopolies.

The whole point of the ACCC finding is that Google and Facebook have developed themselves into a position where they monopolise things like ad revenue, media distribution etc.

I see all these comments saying "too bad, that's business", but that's such a naive position to take regarding emerging / entrenched monopolies.

Tax their revenue then, a bit like GST but more like the NSW gaming machine tax. Do that for every organisation that has multi billion dollar revenue, not just ones you don’t like.


What part of their revenue, *earned within Australia*, is not taxed? If my company places an ad/adwords/targetted marketing on Google or Facebook, I pay GST.

Yes but your company can offset that GST tax by the GST on purchases. You only actually pay the difference. That’s why I said more like the NSW gaming machine tax. It’s based on pure revenue and there are no offsets. Straight up tax on revenue received by the company.


Mike with respect, thats not how corporate tax works. No company in Australia pays tax on revenue. All revenue is offset by cost of goods sold, in effect company tax is tax on gross profit. Effectively the same as GST.

Google & Facebook, like any other company trading within Australia, pay GST on ***all*** of their sales which is ***ONLY*** offset by purchases of goods and services ***purchased in Australia*** so its a pretty good mechanism to get tax out (or at least money returned to the Aus economy) of a massive international company like FB/Google because they obviously have all of their international companies set up at a gross loss.

I know that’s not how it works now but neither is taxing hyperlinks. I know many companies set themselves up for gross loss.

I havent really been following this direct issue as closely as I should but is the intention to TAX Google/FB or force them to pay content creators?

But instead of changing the way the Internet works how about we fix the real tax issue instead.

Always room for real tax reform as long as it improves productivity. **I am NOT a fan of taxing companies or industries differently though**. Make one (set of) law and tax everyone the same.

Edit: But clubs and pubs in NSW pay tax now on gaming machine revenue, not profit or loss.

Because it is a ***State tariff*** and forms part of costs of goods sold and in effect is a deduction for **Federal** Company Tax

But that’s exactly what these laws are trying to do to Facebook and Google.

As I’ve repeated here many times before Google and Facebook don’t need news media content. That’s not how they generate revenue. Facebook and Google don’t publish the news media content the news media corporations do. In fact Facebook currently without news content is a much more appealing place to be.


Genuinely interested in the answer, does the legislation tax them or force them to pay content creators?

It’s not a tax in the traditional sense, but it is a charge overseen by a government body.

https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/search/display/display.w3p;page=0;query=BillId:r6652%20Recstruct:billhome

It is supposed to be a negotiation with the news media businesses.

The ACCC will be responsible for administrating and enforcing the code.

There is no definition in the code of how much a news media business can charge.

It only takes effect for news media businesses whose revenue exceeds $150K pa which cuts out many of the independents.

There is also no clear definition of what a news media business is or what a journalist is. It was left out of the final version.

There is no clear definition of what news is either, or what constitutes news content.

Large organisations such as News Corp or the Nine media organisation have an unfair advantage in negotiations over smaller news media organisations. There will be no consistency based on actual news content. Ie how much per item etc.


OK, so not a Tax in any sense (modern or traditional).

It is a tax though in the sense of a forced charge by a government body, just using another mechanism.

Edit: maybe I should say it’s like a tax though in the sense of a forced charge by a government body, just using another mechanism.

 

[softlaw]

I was still getting posts from WIN News - so I blocked them immediately!

 

[happy_tiger]

Funny ...when it affects Ch 7 etc ...its a huge thing in the news

What did anyone do before facebook lol ........

Are you a blogger?

I'm not sure ....

 

[hobbo1]

Funny ...when it affects Ch 7 etc ...its a huge thing in the news

What did anyone do before facebook lol ........

Are you a blogger?

I'm not sure ....

Flogger ?

 

[happy_tiger]

Funny ...when it affects Ch 7 etc ...its a huge thing in the news

What did anyone do before facebook lol ........

Are you a blogger?

I'm not sure ....

Flogger ?

Slogger .....

 

[hobbo1]


 

[mike]

Facebook wins. News will be back shortly.


 

[Tiger5150]

Facebook wins. News will be back shortly.


Golf clap...

 

[jirskyr]

Facebook wins. News will be back shortly.

I don't think there was a winner? Aust Govt got the legislation past the big two techs with some tweaks. I don't expect FB would be doing deals with the publishers without some pressure.

 

[Geo]

Facebook wins. News will be back shortly.



Golf clap...

Dogs doing stupid things better stay...