Tigers who are regressing.........

cnx_tigers

New member
Being realistic fellas, we have looked good for the odd half here or there this season and that's it. We haven't looked anywhere near as good as we did during the ten game streak last season or the team that went within an inch of the GF in 2010.

On paper we looked stronger this season than 2010 and 11, so what's gone wrong? I think it comes down to regression and the reality that some players have gone over the hill in their careers + some are going backwards fast.

Lote = not even close to the player he was in 2010 (and even then he wasn't close to the player he was at Brisbane) Reality is that he's done. Yes, he may have one or two strong games from this point on…but at his age and with a broken down body, there's no way he'll turn in good games week after week. He's going backwards fast.

Lawrence = this is painful to write...it's tragic to see a bloke who was the game's third best center last season and a certainty for a long NSW career.........now become a below average center at club level. He's just not the same player after that horrific injury. He may never be again.

Ayshford = turned in a great second half of the season in 2011 and looked like he could be anything. In 2012 he's dead set done nothing. Absolutely invisible almost all season and a liability at times. Hard to say what's gone wrong? No excuses, no injuries........what's gone wrong? Going backwards rapidly in 2012.

Heighno = geez...this one is too obvious. He peaked in 2008 and has declined ever since, but thisyear that decline has been rapid. Capable of the odd decent defensive game here and there, but mixes it in with inept games and is the biggest liability in the NRL in attack.

Blair = Tiger 99 keeps saying "he's the ultimate professional and does all the little things right"...but so do Jeff Robson, John Morris and Todd Lowrie and they all do it for a bus ride to the game and free beer afterwards. Dead set for $450 000 a year, Blair needs to help WIN games....GET INVOLVED...SHOW SOME AGGRESSION...ACTUALLY HIT THE BALL UP...He's had three decent games all season. Last season he was referred to commonly as part of the 'big four' and 'the world's best forward'........this season he's a solid first grader (at best) who has not really impacted more than a game or two. MASSIVE regression.

Throw in that guys like Utai, Reddy and Bell all are past their best years also.........and you suddenly see a trend here. We've got well over half who have peaked and are going backwards.
 
everyone imo is trying their hardest and still on paper we look the better side. everything is not clicking together
 
@tig_prmz said:
everyone imo is trying their hardest and still on paper we look the better side. everything is not clicking together

No one doubts they are trying. Lote is giving it everything…but his body is letting him down. He can barely bend down to pick up a rolling ball anymore. Ten years ago he was an athletic freak.

No one in the NRL tries harder than Heighno....................but should 'trying hard' make you an automatic pick in the team forever?
 
Heigno and Lote are the obvious ones. How the hell you could include Utai has me stuffed. IMO he's definitley been one of our top 3 players this yr and deserves another contract. Not sure how you can singal Utai out and not Tuqiri

*EDIT* My bad you did mention Lote, i didn't notice that i need to open my eyes. My opinion on Utai remains the same though
 
Lawrence is carrying both shoulder and hammy issues

A full off season will fix that you would hope

Ayshford is definitely 2nd year syndrome imo

Teams have worked him out and now he has to take steps to become a better all round footballer
 
@GNR4LIFE said:
Heigno and Lote are the obvious ones. How the hell you could include Utai has me stuffed. IMO he's definitley been one of our top 3 players this yr and deserves another contract. Not sure how you can singal Utai out and not Tuqiri

*EDIT* My bad you did mention Lote, i didn't notice that i need to open my eyes. My opinion on Utai remains the same though

I didn't criticise Utai…...........I said that his best years are behind him / he won't suddenly be showing up something he's never done before etc. He's likely done at the end of this season also, so it's fair to include him in a list of guys going backwards career wise.

In 2005 we won with a team where 75% of them were 'on the way up' and vets like Hodgo, Buckets and Skando all peaked even though they were at the end of their careers.

This 2012 team has about half the team 'on the way down' and very few of our vets are playing well or consistent. Benji is still great / great / crap / crap / great / crap. I would have though by 27 he'd be more consistent, but it doesn't look likely to ever happen at this stage.

It's not a good mix currently unless some of the above players can really find a second lease of life. Half a team regressing does not = premiers. You need young blokes coming up and vets playing peak footy.
 
@happy tiger said:
Lawrence is carrying both shoulder and hammy issues

A full off season will fix that you would hope

Remember Michael Owen? The Liverpool footballer whose body broke down similarly to Lawrence?

He never, ever was the same player after 25 and those types of injuries hit.
 
@happy tiger said:
Lawrence is carrying both shoulder and hammy issues

A full off season will fix that you would hope

Ayshford is definitely 2nd year syndrome imo

Teams have worked him out and now he has to take steps to become a better all round footballer

Aysh debuted in 2009, he's been in NRL permanently since Rd1 2010\. It can't be 2nd year syndrome. This time last year he was holding the ball like a Panadol and beating defenders with his footwork. He looks a heap slower and his arm grabbing is costing us. Heino and Aysh are standouts as my disappointments. Not that I doubt their effort.
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Yes you are totally right my bad

For some reason thought he debuted in 2010 , but your correct it was 2009

So its even worse , he has 3rd year syndrome :unamused:
 
@happy tiger said:
Yes you are totally right my bad

For some reason thought he debuted in 2010 , but your correct it was 2009

So its even worse , he has 3rd year syndrome :unamused:

Maths not your strong suit Hap?

Debuting in 2009 makes 2012 his fourth year in top grade.
 
@tiga4eva said:
@happy tiger said:
Lawrence is carrying both shoulder and hammy issues

A full off season will fix that you would hope

Ayshford is definitely 2nd year syndrome imo

Teams have worked him out and now he has to take steps to become a better all round footballer

Aysh debuted in 2009, he's been in NRL permanently since Rd1 2010\. It can't be 2nd year syndrome. This time last year he was holding the ball like a Panadol and beating defenders with his footwork. He looks a heap slower and his arm grabbing is costing us. Heino and Aysh are standouts as my disappointments. Not that I doubt their effort.
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Yeah, it's not Ayshford's second year in the NRL, he's just down on confidence and gone off the boil.

Lawrence has been a concern all year due to starting the season carrying a shoulder injury from last year, as well as picking up a hamstring injury which he looks like he might be getting on top of now. Hopefully this weekend off will do him some good.

Lote on the other hand simply isn't as agile and quick off the mark as he used to be. He has good pace once he has wound up, but younger, more dynamic players are leaving him behind, plus is he is not the best under the high ball.

Heighno is not having the same impact as what he did last year and in 2010\. Has his best football past him? Quite possibly. There will certainly be some added pressure next year with the likes of Pettybourne and Thompson joining the side as they are both powerful players and will hopefully develop further under the Wests Tigers structure.
 
When they talk about having 2nd year syndrome it is after a full season in grade

Its based on teams have seen them play at least twice and they work out their strengths and weaknesses

We all realize that Happy was joking about 3rd year syndrome don't we
 
We really seem to be treading water dont we?
Its been like this for a while…..you can string games together in patches but without REAL growth we still see the inconsistency weve seen for the last 7 years
 
@cnx_tigers said:
In 2005 we won with a team where 75% of them were 'on the way up' and vets like Hodgo, Buckets and Skando all peaked even though they were at the end of their careers.

This 2012 team has about half the team 'on the way down' and very few of our vets are playing well or consistent. Benji is still great / great / crap / crap / great / crap. I would have though by 27 he'd be more consistent, but it doesn't look likely to ever happen at this stage.

It's not a good mix currently unless some of the above players can really find a second lease of life. Half a team regressing does not = premiers. You need young blokes coming up and vets playing peak footy.

Unfortunately, it is all part of the salary cap cycle. We probably should have won in either 2010 or 2011.

However we are regenerating the squad. Don't forget 2 of our 4 players "on the rise" have been injured all season, Tedesco and Sironen. Woods and BMM are coming along nicely. I suppose you could argue Moltzen has more upside, but obviously that is debatable. We have also had our best player on the sidelines since round 5.

There will be further regeneration is this current crop of under 20's continue to develop over the coming years.
 
I agree all but Utai. He's catching bombs and holdin the ball this year an picking up low grubbers
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Utai has been one of our shining lights the last 6-8 weeks. To criticise him now is unfair and is a mere reaction to two losses on the trot. On top of that, he has still been one of our strongest in those two games (remember his return from the ball going dead that led to Beau's try?).

Tiger99 said Lawrence has been badly hampered by hammy and shoulder injuries. However he's slowly picking up. His defence against the Roosters was fantastic and his support play for the first try in the Knights game is showing some of his former self.

I agree that Lote is probably at the end of his time with the Tigers. There's just too much depth and talent in the club that are ready to go, and we shouldn't be holding them back based on Lote's reputation/give him one final swansong.

Heighno again is in a similar boat to Tuqiri. He's just not having the same impact he used to. I think given the nature of our signings for 2013 - Anasta, Pettybourne and Thompson, as well as guys like Fotouaika earmarked for first grade in the not too distant future, Heighno is probably going to find it tough to maintain a high quality of footy with some younger guys coming through.
 
@happy tiger said:
Lawrence is carrying both shoulder and hammy issues

**A full off season will fix that you would hope**

Ayshford is definitely 2nd year syndrome imo

Teams have worked him out and now he has to take steps to become a better all round footballer

great, so we're accepting that this season is just a total write-off for lawrence? i miss his old form 😢
 
@steve-o said:
@happy tiger said:
Lawrence is carrying both shoulder and hammy issues

**A full off season will fix that you would hope**

Ayshford is definitely 2nd year syndrome imo

Teams have worked him out and now he has to take steps to become a better all round footballer

great, so we're accepting that this season is just a total write-off for lawrence? i miss his old form 😢

And if he gets rest \surgery he may need you could right the season off also
 
@cnx_tigers said:
@tig_prmz said:
everyone imo is trying their hardest and still on paper we look the better side. everything is not clicking together

No one doubts they are trying. Lote is giving it everything…but his body is letting him down. He can barely bend down to pick up a rolling ball anymore. Ten years ago he was an athletic freak.

No one in the NRL tries harder than Heighno....................but should 'trying hard' make you an automatic pick in the team forever?

ignoring the performance against knights and roosters.. i would not blame any individual players for not trying their hardest coz you could see them trying their best and giving 100%

the problem is that they're not working as a team, they're not working for each other, they're all trying to do their own individual thing and it's resulting in chaos. this was happening even when we were winning, it was just that opposing teams weren't able to capitalise on it.

NOW that the players are becoming complacent, we are starting to struggle in our defense and our attack this year has been terrible.
 
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