Wests Tigers Deep Dive of the Week

[Jolls]

Hes talking 20/40s not 40/20s

I think ive only seen one or two done.

The fact we rarely see them attempted i think would be due to it being either on a very early tackle.or.if its.late in the set and the attack.is still stuck in the 20 and theyre.losing the ruck

Yes, missed that - 20/40s. Getting it right definitely shifts momentum; but get it wrong.......

I can't find any stats on 20/40s for 2025. I need to keep digging. Anyone recall games where they were kicked?

 

[gregjm87]

Donkeys kicked 11, Storm 7 and both appeared in the GF. The Silvertails nailed 4, the Sharks and Faders and the Riff 2. Everyone else kicked one bar us, the Titans, Cows, Rabbits and Drag Queens.

those that kicked no 40/20s finished 12-16. The only team to kick a 40/20 and finish below us five was the Knights.

Is it a lack of kicking ability or is it a lack of smarts?

It is clearly more difficult that it is to write - but there is a significant gap that we need to close to be in the top eight.

We need to be smarter

All great stats and I agree with your summation however as ink said I was saying 20-40s as momentum changers.

40-20s I think are usually executed when a team is on top to further ram home their advantage. They are typically still left late in the count and performed after a fast play the ball when wingers are caught between needing to drop and getting sucked inwards due to the middle collapsing in.

Yes, missed that - 20/40s. Getting it right definitely shifts momentum; but get it wrong.......

I can't find any stats on 20/40s for 2025. I need to keep digging. Anyone recall games where they were kicked?

Getting it wrong having dire consequences is really only if you've kicked out on the full. There is no excuse, skills wise, for that to happen. Yes you are conceding a little territory by kicking early but realistically how much territory when the alternative is a couple extra hit ups and kicking straight down the fullbacks throat?

 

[Jolls]

All great stats and I agree with your summation however as ink said I was saying 20-40s as momentum changers.

40-20s I think are usually executed when a team is on top to further ram home their advantage. They are typically still left late in the count and performed after a fast play the ball when wingers are caught between needing to drop and getting sucked inwards due to the middle collapsing in.

Getting it wrong having dire consequences is really only if you've kicked out on the full. There is no excuse, skills wise, for that to happen. Yes you are conceding a little territory by kicking early but realistically how much territory when the alternative is a couple extra hit ups and kicking straight down the fullbacks throat?

I follow the logic but think that the issue is that you are kicking so deep that you are handing over possesion (if it doesn't go out) in good field position. I haven't loked at the 25 Stats but the 24 stats we were one of the worst for starting our sets deep in uor own half and handing the ball over to the opposition shallow in theirs. So it may well be a deliberate coaching decision.

I agree that it a 20/40 is executed correctly it is a momentum changer; however, across the board I don't recall seeing one executed in 2025. I also can't find any data that hows successful 20/40 or 40/20 vs attempted.

It would be interesting to dig into as this would validate you assertion that skills wise there is no excuse for it not to be successful. I don't disagree with the statement, I just don't have any evidence that supports it - and not being a kicker, or playing with that rule during my playing days I don't have any practical experience to fall back on either.

I expect that 20/40s are rare for three reasons:

• Opportunity/geometry makes it difficult to find a 20/40 window. To get the reward you need the ball to go 60+ metres with a favourable bounce with no contest. The combination of kick launched from inside 20m + ball goes out inside opposition 40m + opponent out of position probably limits the execution window.
• High risk. If you miss, you give up territory and have probably provided a team with momentum a good attacking position. The negative payoff if it fails is greater than other options and modern coaches prefer season-long "risk management.
• Coaching & practice emphasis. I expect that Benji and co consider the 20/40 and 40/20 to be a low value event with high execution difficulty in comparison to other options. Given that coaching time is allocated to repeatable, high-value skills like repeatable repeats: set plays, repeatable kicking moves such as grubbers, high kicks, or short grubbers inside the 20. Players who kick for field position are trained and encouraged to pursue the coach-approved plays — so it becomes a self-fulfilling cycle. A slef licking ice cream that stifles on your feet thinking.

While I agree that NRL level kickers should have the skill set to execute 20/40s the rarity is mostly likely a mix of: low natural opportunity + high execution difficulty + modern tactical risk aversion.