Wests Tigers salary cap mess...

[Cultured_Bogan]

We would still have a fair few players on overs Farah ,Lawrence , Moses ,Brooks

The problem is other clubs have reduced their players costs with TPA's , we are improving but would still be in the bottom 3 clubs in this regard

Something I've heard (yes it's only a rumour ) , but what has caused the biggest issues is that some TPA's players have had have fallen through

what do you mean and what does TPA's stand for?

TPA means Third Party Agreement Swag.

It is a payment that can be made to the player by a party that is not the NRL or a club. There's two types of TPA's: one that is included under the cap, and one that is not. NRL clubs have a limit that affiliated third parties (i.e. sponsors of clubs, media broadcasters etc,) can pay out to players. The second type of TPA payment is basically anyone not affiliated with the club or NRL can pay whatever they want and it is basically unpoliced and is unlimited in amount for that reason (as you cannot stop a player from making money from his intellectual property, it is a restraint of trade.)

So for example:

Luke Brooks is offered $300K a year for his next deal, another club comes in and offers $350K. Brooks says he will stay if we can match the offer, but we have no more money to spend under the cap. Brydens Lawyers says "we'll chip in the extra $50K guys," and they top his contract up to $350K a year so Brooks will stay. But because Brydens is a club affiliated party as our major sponsor, it is covered under the TPA cap which I think is currently $600K.

However, say we'd maxed out our club affiliated TPA cap as well as the salary cap, this forum which has about 4,000 members could all chip in $12.50 each and we could raise the $50K to keep him on and the NRL can't do anything about that because we are not affiliated with the club or NRL. Brisbane have a team of guys called the Thoroughbreds who do this.

 

[ricksen]

Something I've heard (yes it's only a rumour ) , but what has caused the biggest issues is that some TPA's players have had have fallen through

This is very much the case from what I've heard.

 

[swag_tiger]

we should make one

 

[tigerap]

Id like to know who the "overvalued" players are we kept?…its not Brooks, Teddy etc... then who is it....

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Something I've heard (yes it's only a rumour ) , but what has caused the biggest issues is that some TPA's players have had have fallen through

This is very much the case from what I've heard.

If the TPA's fall through, how is it up to the club to remunerate their losses? They're being paid by an external entity…

 

[Geo]

Something I've heard (yes it's only a rumour ) , but what has caused the biggest issues is that some TPA's players have had have fallen through

This is very much the case from what I've heard.

If the TPA's fall through, how is it up to the club to remunerate their losses? They're being paid by an external entity…

I'm guessing Happy means Club affiliated one's in the 600K allowance…

Otherwise we aren't rorting properly...

 

[happy_tiger]

Something I've heard (yes it's only a rumour ) , but what has caused the biggest issues is that some TPA's players have had have fallen through

This is very much the case from what I've heard.

If the TPA's fall through, how is it up to the club to remunerate their losses? They're being paid by an external entity…

I'm guessing Happy means Club affiliated one's in the 600K allowance…

Otherwise we aren't rorting properly...

Well both actually Geo

And I didn't say we needed to remunerate anyone if a TPA fell through CB …......

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

I didn't say you did Happy. I implied from what you said that the club is picking up the tab for TPA's that went sour. Why else would it worry us?

 

[happy_tiger]

I didn't say you did Happy. I implied from what you said that the club is picking up the tab for TPA's that went sour. Why else would it worry us?

Sorry misconstrued what you were saying , my bad

I've heard of 3 players who have had TPA's fall through with the WT's I can't say how that rates with other clubs but it would have to make players nervous of why it is happening if it isn't so prevalent at other clubs

The club has had also bad rep for not paying what they were owed in a timely fashion

One particular player waited over 18 months for his education tuitions to be paid and even longer for his surgery to be reimbursed

 

[jirskyr]

**Show me a club that could make cap space for all 3 of Tedesco, Moses and Brooks. Not happening.**

Clubs like Broncos, Roosters, Manly, Storm, Souths or Dogs would find a way to fit in all 3 if they thought it would win them a competition, that is they way they are run. I think the Roosters got the spoon one year and they brought in players to get them to the top four the next year. Most likely to find room for all 3 would be the Bulldogs considering their current roster and needs.

Don't you think that's a bit too conspiracy theory?

Sure they could take one, maybe two big names on in a year, but they'd have to clear the decks big time to do so. Signing 3 wanted stars from one team, lock-stock? I can't ever recall seeing such a thing.

Roosters went from 16th to 6th in 2009-10, then managed 11th and 13th. Change of coach in 2013 saw them go to 1st. Can you really say buying the core of a team lock-stock made this happen?

 

[ricksen]

I didn't say you did Happy. I implied from what you said that the club is picking up the tab for TPA's that went sour. Why else would it worry us?

It doesn't worry us in a financial sense, but it does worry players we're trying to sign.

 

[Snake]

I didn't say you did Happy. I implied from what you said that the club is picking up the tab for TPA's that went sour. Why else would it worry us?

Sorry misconstrued what you were saying , my bad

I've heard of 3 players who have had TPA's fall through with the WT's I can't say how that rates with other clubs but it would have to make players nervous of why it is happening if it isn't so prevalent at other clubs

The club has had also bad rep for not paying what they were owed in a timely fashion

One particular player waited over 18 months for his education tuitions to be paid and even longer for his surgery to be reimbursed

What you are saying is right ..but I have no idea whether it is true or not.. the underlying issues of the past have now been rectified hopefully and the general playing community will have more confidence to come to the club.
Getting tired of the club being singled out ..like of cause NO other club has had any of these issues ,only like most!

 

[happy_tiger]

I didn't say you did Happy. I implied from what you said that the club is picking up the tab for TPA's that went sour. Why else would it worry us?

Sorry misconstrued what you were saying , my bad

I've heard of 3 players who have had TPA's fall through with the WT's I can't say how that rates with other clubs but it would have to make players nervous of why it is happening if it isn't so prevalent at other clubs

The club has had also bad rep for not paying what they were owed in a timely fashion

One particular player waited over 18 months for his education tuitions to be paid and even longer for his surgery to be reimbursed

What you are saying is right ..but I have no idea whether it is true or not.. the underlying issues of the past have now been rectified hopefully and the general playing community will have more confidence to come to the club.
Getting tired of the club being singled out ..like of cause NO other club has had any of these issues ,only like most!

Your missing my point Snake

All of the past issues are sorted , by it takes time to fix your reputation

Hopefully it happens quickly

 

[stevetiger]

Id like to know who the "overvalued" players are we kept?…its not Brooks, Teddy etc... then who is it....

I'm worried about Woods. I heard Mayer (I think) state that Robbie and Woods were our marquee players.

 

[Fade_To_Black]

How do Manly offload 1 player (Foran) and sign Nate Myles, Taupau, Lewis Brown, Korisau etc and were sniffing around the signing of Dylan Walker for a 4 year contract? On top of paying former NSW reps and NZ internationals that are currently on their books. Stuff me. We are well behind in the art of salary cap manipulation and that will probably be the death of us as a competitive club

 

[sunshine_coast_tiger]

**Show me a club that could make cap space for all 3 of Tedesco, Moses and Brooks. Not happening.**

Clubs like Broncos, Roosters, Manly, Storm, Souths or Dogs would find a way to fit in all 3 if they thought it would win them a competition, that is they way they are run. I think the Roosters got the spoon one year and they brought in players to get them to the top four the next year. Most likely to find room for all 3 would be the Bulldogs considering their current roster and needs.

Don't you think that's a bit too conspiracy theory?

Sure they could take one, maybe two big names on in a year, but they'd have to clear the decks big time to do so. Signing 3 wanted stars from one team, lock-stock? I can't ever recall seeing such a thing.

Roosters went from 16th to 6th in 2009-10, then managed 11th and 13th. Change of coach in 2013 saw them go to 1st. Can you really say buying the core of a team lock-stock made this happen?

Look at the players Manly have bought in this year, if a club though our 3 would help them win a competition they would find a way, they have far better salary cap management (some would say the use of TPA's is salary cap cheating bu the NRL is turning a blind eye to certain clubs).

 

[sunshine_coast_tiger]

**Show me a club that could make cap space for all 3 of Tedesco, Moses and Brooks. Not happening.**

Clubs like Broncos, Roosters, Manly, Storm, Souths or Dogs would find a way to fit in all 3 if they thought it would win them a competition, that is they way they are run. I think the Roosters got the spoon one year and they brought in players to get them to the top four the next year. Most likely to find room for all 3 would be the Bulldogs considering their current roster and needs.

Don't you think that's a bit too conspiracy theory?

Sure they could take one, maybe two big names on in a year, but they'd have to clear the decks big time to do so. Signing 3 wanted stars from one team, lock-stock? I can't ever recall seeing such a thing.

Roosters went from 16th to 6th in 2009-10, then managed 11th and 13th. Change of coach in 2013 saw them go to 1st. Can you really say buying the core of a team lock-stock made this happen?

Look at the players Manly have bought in this year, if a club thought our 3 would help them win a competition they would find a way, they have far better salary cap management (some would say the use of TPA's is salary cap cheating bu the NRL is turning a blind eye to certain clubs).

 

[sunshine_coast_tiger]

How do Manly offload 1 player (Foran) and sign Nate Myles, Taupau, Lewis Brown, Korisau etc and were sniffing around the signing of Dylan Walker for a 4 year contract? On top of paying former NSW reps and NZ internationals that are currently on their books. Stuff me. We are well behind in the art of salary cap manipulation and that will probably be the death of us as a competitive club

I have said it many times the NRL is becoming the EPL and certain well funded clubs will be at the top year after year if they don't crack down on Third Party Agreements or come up with a Salary Cap that is points based based on a players ability ie your top 25 has to be 100 points or less and a player like Johnathan Thurston is rated 15 points etc.

We as a club are being left massively behind as a club because of our lack of access to Third Party Agreements and I don't think the current board has the business contacts to vastly increase that area.

A person on another forum said unless your board can attract a lot of money by Third Party Agreements to get a better playing roster you have the wrong board. We have the wrong board.

 

[jirskyr]

Look at the players Manly have bought in this year, if a club thought our 3 would help them win a competition they would find a way, they have far better salary cap management (some would say the use of TPA's is salary cap cheating bu the NRL is turning a blind eye to certain clubs).

Lewis Brown - decent without being high quality FGer
Koroisau - hardly a top rate hooker at this time
Lussick - just buying him back after a poor stint at Parra
Myles - his last contract
Taupau - probably their biggest purchase

Who else? Moltzen? Isaac John? This is hardly a list of elite footballers, nor the core spine of a rival club.

Have you looked at the releases Manly made to accommodate new signings? Foran notwithstanding, also Gutherson, Hasson, Horo, Dunamis Lui, Sene-Lefao, Mason, MCK, Ligi Sao. These were all Top 25 squad 2015.

You are no doubt right that some clubs have superior TPAs that us, but I really dont think Manly are one of the main concerns for that.

Maybe Roosters or Broncos could affors to overhaul the roster to get ~2 elite players in a single recruitment drive.

 

[pHyR3]

How do Manly offload 1 player (Foran) and sign Nate Myles, Taupau, Lewis Brown, Korisau etc and were sniffing around the signing of Dylan Walker for a 4 year contract? On top of paying former NSW reps and NZ internationals that are currently on their books. Stuff me. We are well behind in the art of salary cap manipulation and that will probably be the death of us as a competitive club

I have said it many times the NRL is becoming the EPL and certain well funded clubs will be at the top year after year if they don't crack down on Third Party Agreements or come up with a Salary Cap that is points based based on a players ability ie your top 25 has to be 100 points or less and a player like Johnathan Thurston is rated 15 points etc.

We as a club are being left massively behind as a club because of our lack of access to Third Party Agreements and I don't think the current board has the business contacts to vastly increase that area.

A person on another forum said unless your board can attract a lot of money by Third Party Agreements to get a better playing roster you have the wrong board. We have the wrong board.

funny. cause manly are not financially well off at all.

the rich clubs are Broncos, roosters, melbourne and recently souths.

Manly aren't that poor, but they're not very rich either.

it's called good salary cap management. when you dont have a hooker on 950k, a centre still suffering from a dislocated him on like 400-500k and a bunch of young players paid on potential not performance your team will look like cr*p.

The roosters got jennings for almost nothing because the panthers were paying him. they got Tupou from NSW Cup and i doubt RTS, Friend and Cordner would be being paid above market value. Now that RTS's contract is up for renewal, he wanted market value and is off to the warriors as a result.

notice how the chooks did NOT bargain with him and end up paying a million dollars for him and stuff up their cap for the next 4 years.

then consider the tigers have one of the worst facilities in the NRL, because we're underfunded. We're getting stuff now the broncos have had for 5-10 years and the NFL for even longer. that means rich clubs will not get injured as often, and all their players have a slight edge on ours through better conditioning, diet etc.

being rich is valuable in the NRL, but the salary cap is still effective. no club has gone back to back in like 24 years. meanwhile AFL just had a three peat, NBA had miamia heat in 4 consecutive finals appearances etc. etc.