What does it take to become WTFC

[angeman]

Spot on. Why can't members be more actively involved rather than just glorified season ticket holders? Why can't we get transparency? Participation? Shareholders get more rights!
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

There is nothing stopping people becoming members of Balmain or any of the Wests Magpies groups. That is the way it's been since the start, and I think it should remain that way. WT members are nothing more than customers, but there is nothing that says otherwise. Shareholders get more rights because they put the money in, plain and simple. And there is transparency if you're a member of one of the football clubs, ask a question at a meeting and it will get answered.

I am a member of both wests and balmain but get no info on wests tigers finance, performance etc. if they both own wests tigers then where is the info on the JV since via that ownership I'm entitled as you say.

Also my 8 season tickets plus merchandise etc don't buy me the right my $11 does with balmain? Crazy…

There is an opportunity here to build up grass roots participation and make a distinction in how the club is run...
\
\
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

 

[angeman]

I am getting increasingly frustrated with all the question marks that surround this 'club'

I know its all mainly media driven and a lot is questionable and fabricated, but we rarely get any solid info whatsoever from the 'club'

Members are mere ticket/seat holders….sticker & lanyard possessors, dodgy members cap wearers....members should get more

If - and heres more question marks - if we are to merge the State Cup teams of Wests Magpies and BRET.....why do we not become a Wests Tigers Football Club?

Who will be members of the JV partners in 5 years time if and when u/18s are still the most senior teams for each organization?
A handful of diehards from either side?
These are the ''members'' that are entrusted with keeping the Wests Tigers board on their toes, make sure theyre doing a good job.....but from what Ive seen a lot of these ''members'' stand for the exact opposite of what their board serves....Wests Tigers Rugby League Football Pty Ltd

Wests Tigers need to make financial supporters members, in that they have a say, a vote, these are the people that care and love the joint, these are the people that want to see it move forward.
How do we become Wests Tigers Football Club with members gaining voting rights?
Im sure it will be near impossible, the fossils will have covered their asses, but one day no one will give a rats about Wests or Balmain, yet plenty will care about WTs.....but all they'll still be able to do is buy a season ticket complete with WTs hanky and cooler bag.....then what?

It all has to change one day

I think I'm going to disagree with you on that one. I'm a member of the Balmain Football Club, have been since my 18th birthday and I plan to be until the day I die. I think it's a bit offensive to say as a member I stand for something different to the joint venture. I want the Wests Tigers to succeed because just like all Balmain and Wests supporters they are my team. I support the Balmain junior teams, but first and foremost is the joint venture in first grade. I actually think the current system, works fine. How many of the current clubs offer voting rights for the board with their season ticket 'memberships'? It needs to be understood that we're not the AFL, we have different structures. A membership with an NRL club is basically just a season ticket, it's just that the NRL wants us in line with the AFL therefore they call them memberships.

And who's to say that the supporters will vote for the people on the board who will actually know what they're doing? I fear that if WT 'members' (basically season ticket holders) will vote in the popular members of the supporter groups, and we'll end up with a board of supporters who have no business of life experience, rather than most of the current board who are life-long supporters of the club with business and/or sporting pedigree. I think the current system works fine. If you want a season ticket then sign as a WT member. If you want influence with the board etc then sign up as a member of Balmain or one of the Wests Group members, plain and simple.

In addition, should we move away from the current structure, would current members be willing to cover any financial short-falls the club would experience? Surely you can out together a couple of million dollars a year to do that.

I didn't think so.

And I agree with one of the other posters that if we were to move away from the current structure it would only for private investors to have a share in the joint venture.

We could learn from the afl though…

Also voting leading to numpties in charge. Sounds like democracy!
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

 

[Benjirific]

Spot on. Why can't members be more actively involved rather than just glorified season ticket holders? Why can't we get transparency? Participation? Shareholders get more rights!
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

There is nothing stopping people becoming members of Balmain or any of the Wests Magpies groups. That is the way it's been since the start, and I think it should remain that way. WT members are nothing more than customers, but there is nothing that says otherwise. Shareholders get more rights because they put the money in, plain and simple. And there is transparency if you're a member of one of the football clubs, ask a question at a meeting and it will get answered.

I am a member of both wests and balmain but get no info on wests tigers finance, performance etc. if they both own wests tigers then where is the info on the JV since via that ownership I'm entitled as you say.

Also my 8 season tickets plus merchandise etc don't buy me the right my $11 does with balmain? Crazy…

There is an opportunity here to build up grass roots participation and make a distinction in how the club is run...

_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

Nobody on here has any idea about how football is run in this country, that is quite clear. If you're a member of both football clubs then all you need to do is ask about WT finances at an AGM. As long as you give notice (7 days I believe), they are legally obligated to provide it to you. They won't (and shouldn't) just hand this stuff out because A - it's sensitive information and B - not all members care too much about it.

And all this BS about WT members being 'shareholders' is frustrating me. A membership to WT is simply one in name only. Memebers of WT are customers of WT, not shareholders, and nor should they be. It's not about how much money you individually put in, it's about the club being a joint-venture of various entities and I'm more than happy for it to stay that way.

It is clear about how the club is run, as a joint-venture of two groups. Quite simply, grass-roots participation clubs don't work, they go broke. I personally don't see any problem with the current structure, it seems just people looking for any element to blame for a poor season by the club on the field and some financial problems on one side.

Some of the power-hungry supporters need to drop off and let the qualified and elected officials run this club rather than do the citizen journalism type crap which I've been reading lately.

 

[innsaneink]

[

**Nobody on here has any idea about how football is run in this country, that is quite clear**. If you're a member of both football clubs then all you need to do is ask about WT finances at an AGM. As long as you give notice (7 days I believe), they are legally obligated to provide it to you. They won't (and shouldn't) just hand this stuff out because A - it's sensitive information

**But you do??**

So 7 days notice and they MUST provide the info….but you only if youre a member of both?
They shouldnt hand this out because its sensitive,,,,,but 7 days notice changes that???? Yeh right :laughing:

and B - not all members care too much about it.

So you speak on behalf of all members?
As I said before............
(Post #10 page one this thread)
http://www.weststigersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15507
.................and you misread and took offense at -it seems not all WS & BT FC members dont care about WTs.
Thank you for proving my point.

And all this BS about WT members being 'shareholders' is frustrating me. A membership to WT is simply one in name only. Memebers of WT are customers of WT, not shareholders, and nor should they be.

In your opinion....no ones saying WTs members are shareholdes, we are saying it should be like this.

It's not about how much money you individually put in, it's about the club being a joint-venture of various entities and I'm more than happy for it to stay that way.

Thats quite different to what youve said here:
Benjirific:_Shareholders get more rights because they put the money in, plain and simple._

It is clear about how the club is run, as a joint-venture of two groups. Quite simply, grass-roots participation clubs don't work, they go broke. I personally don't see any problem with the current structure, it seems just people looking for any element to blame for a poor season by the club on the field and some financial problems on one side.
>
Some of the power-hungry supporters need to drop off and let the qualified and elected officials run this club rather than do the citizen journalism type crap which I've been reading lately.

Not power hungry....info hungry...dont twist things, you seem to be getting very defensive and altering what some are sayin

Nobody on here has any idea about how football is run in this country

Indeed

 

[angeman]

[

**Nobody on here has any idea about how football is run in this country, that is quite clear**. If you're a member of both football clubs then all you need to do is ask about WT finances at an AGM. As long as you give notice (7 days I believe), they are legally obligated to provide it to you. They won't (and shouldn't) just hand this stuff out because A - it's sensitive information

**But you do??**

So 7 days notice and they MUST provide the info….but you only if youre a member of both?
They shouldnt hand this out because its sensitive,,,,,but 7 days notice changes that???? Yeh right

and B - not all members care too much about it.

So you speak on behalf of all members?
As I said before............
(Post #10 page one this thread)
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15507
.................and you misread and took offense at -it seems not all WS & BT FC members dont care about WTs.
Thank you for proving my point.

And all this BS about WT members being 'shareholders' is frustrating me. A membership to WT is simply one in name only. Memebers of WT are customers of WT, not shareholders, and nor should they be.

In your opinion....no ones saying WTs members are shareholdes, we are saying it should be like this.

It's not about how much money you individually put in, it's about the club being a joint-venture of various entities and I'm more than happy for it to stay that way.

Thats quite different to what youve said here:
Benjirific:_Shareholders get more rights because they put the money in, plain and simple._

It is clear about how the club is run, as a joint-venture of two groups. Quite simply, grass-roots participation clubs don't work, they go broke. I personally don't see any problem with the current structure, it seems just people looking for any element to blame for a poor season by the club on the field and some financial problems on one side.
>
Some of the power-hungry supporters need to drop off and let the qualified and elected officials run this club rather than do the citizen journalism type crap which I've been reading lately.

Not power hungry....info hungry...dont twist things, you seem to be getting very defensive and altering what some are sayin

Nobody on here has any idea about how football is run in this country

Indeed

x2

as to legally having to answer every answer at the agm ummm… No. Auditors collect questions group in similar themes and try to answer. That is all.

Also balmain and wests info freely given to members but wests tigers is highly sensitive. Sure ok.

Things can be improved surely you can see that? Unless your already on the board that is!
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

 

[snowleopard]

Some of the power-hungry supporters need to drop off and let the qualified and elected officials run this club rather than do the citizen journalism type crap which I've been reading lately.

Interesting ideas..and think some are close to the mark in being right. However, would like to understand how you could qualify Dawn & Deni as qualified officials?

 

[innsaneink]

WTs have more than 10000 members…..**yet less than 1%** of that figure turned up to one JV sides EGM today

Says it all

 

[wtfl1981]

Fellow WT fans…

Keep in mind.. WT is a JV. Its owned by multiple bodies who have a controlling and financial interest.

Yes it would be ideal to have better democracy within WT but at the moment not as clear as WT report to multiple bodies.

If WT was formed as a merger then we would not have controlling sub-interests i.e agenda from magpies or ashfield or balmain etc

There are passionate people on all sides who have a emotional or financial interest in one of the 4 owning bodies... Its not as simple as 'lets just abolish everything and wipe out the sub-parties. WT is a very strong and popular brand and is not dissolving.

In regards to ownership, i personally foresee ownership moving over to the wests group (based on the financial demise of balmain) but i can re assure all that there will NOT be a dissolving of WT in any way.
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

 

[Benjirific]

wtfl1981 is right, it can't (and in my opinion shouldn't) just be ripped up over nothing. I disagree regarding the movement of the ownership, but that's another argument altogether.

In regards to the other points, I can't be bothered arguing too much longer with people who don't have a clue how the game and the club is run. Yes I know how it is, in some detail, but I won't be divulging that.

The people who buy WT 'memberships' are simply customers, no more. You are buying a product. Football club members are paying a fee to become members of the club. That doesn't make you a shareholder of the club, but collectively you are 'owners', despite there not really being owners in effect. Making the moves suggested would put the club back 20 years and destroy everything that has been built already, just so a couple of know-it-alls can feel important when purchasing a season-ticket.

In regard to comments about Dawn Fraser (AO, OAM), she is a former member of NSW Parliament and has several business interests since her Olympic career concluded. She is also on the Board of the NRMA and is a former SCGT Trustee. I think that is a fair qualification.

 

[innsaneink]

Are you autistic?
Youre very repetitive
"WT 'memberships' are simply customers, no more."
I sensed you had a somewhat arrogant overtone, thanks for now confirming it.

just so a couple of know-it-alls can feel important

LOL…the irony

Yes I know how it is, in some detail, but I won't be divulging that.

I'm glad youre finished....I think we all can see where you stand

I think if Wests Tigers could offer FC memberships with voting rights it would be of benefit to THE MAJORITY in the long run, and best for Wests Tigers overall.
Thats after all, what we all want.....isnt it? 😕
Seems not.

 

[Benjirific]

I'm sorry but that comment is INCREDIBLY offensive considering that condition is something that has impacted my family. It is not something to joke about or use to quite obviously create offence.

 

[tigerbalm]

What happens if balmain can't fund at the same levels as wests? Was there anything written into the original merger contracts with regards to this? Is it possible for the club to be largely funded by wests A/C but still remain wests tigers?
\
\
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

 

[innsaneink]

I'm sorry but that comment is INCREDIBLY offensive considering that condition is something that has impacted my family. It is not something to joke about or use to quite obviously create offence.

Apologies, it was used in a descriptive context, not meant to offend

 

[Goose]

Excellent post, all very good points. Unfortunately i think making WTFC may be problematic… but worth pursuing

I am getting increasingly frustrated with all the question marks that surround this 'club'

I know its all mainly media driven and a lot is questionable and fabricated, but we rarely get any solid info whatsoever from the 'club'

Members are mere ticket/seat holders….sticker & lanyard possessors, dodgy members cap wearers....members should get more

If - and heres more question marks - if we are to merge the State Cup teams of Wests Magpies and BRET.....why do we not become a Wests Tigers Football Club?

Who will be members of the JV partners in 5 years time if and when u/18s are still the most senior teams for each organization?
A handful of diehards from either side?u
These are the ''members'' that are entrusted with keeping the Wests Tigers board on their toes, make sure theyre doing a good job.....but from what Ive seen a lot of these ''members'' stand for the exact opposite of what their board serves....Wests Tigers Rugby League Football Pty Ltd

Wests Tigers need to make financial supporters members, in that they have a say, a vote, these are the people that care and love the joint, these are the people that want to see it move forward.
How do we become Wests Tigers Football Club with members gaining voting rights?
Im sure it will be near impossible, the fossils will have covered their asses, but one day no one will give a rats about Wests or Balmain, yet plenty will care about WTs.....but all they'll still be able to do is buy a season ticket complete with WTs hanky and cooler bag.....then what?

It all has to change one day

 

[wtfl1981]

What happens if balmain can't fund at the same levels as wests? Was there anything written into the original merger contracts with regards to this? Is it possible for the club to be largely funded by wests A/C but still remain wests tigers?
\
\
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

No agreement to revert to magpies (in this scenario) it would fairly unchanged business for WT if balmain handed ownership over to Wests Group.

If the tigers brand was wanted elsewhere (very unlikely) The JV licence would be handed back to the ARLC.
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_

 

[wtfl1981]

This is some detailed info re status of WSM and some administrative structure of WT

The Magpies board and its representatives have met several times with all parties with the intention to resolve this issue. It has not been easy. Our focus is with West’s Magpies then West Tigers and West Ashfield. Comments may be made about other parties but it is not our place to speak on behalf of them.

Details of Parties

West’s Ashfield Leagues –7 directors

Western Suburbs District Rugby League Football Club Limited –7 directors, 4 appointed by West Ashfield, 3 by the members. Ashfield Appointees; Chairman, Mick Liubinskas, Russel Smith, John Donnellan, Mike Bailey. Members appointees; Paul Dillon, Bob Cairns and Dave Jago

Balmain Tigers

Western Suburbs League Club (Campbelltown) Ltd.

West Tigers, Joint Venture; Balmain 5 votes West Group 5 votes.

Wests group being; 1 Magpies Football Club, 1 West’s Campbelltown and 3 West’s Ashfield.

Facts v Emotion

Wests Ashfield Leagues Club (WAL) • WAL contribute to West Tigers • WAL contribute to the junior representative teams in the Macarthur district • WAL are the major funder of the Magpies,

Over the life of the Magpies WAL has provided millions of dollars to the Magpies for football operations. (25 years in Campbelltown approx $25m). Without the support of Wests Ashfield leagues, the Magpies would not exist in its current form.

Wests Tigers

Wests Tigers support /sponsor the following areas of Rugby League 1\. Sponsorship of juniors in the junior league 2\. Sponsorship of juniors from St Greg’s 3\. The Magpies board has outsourced the control of the Magpie Rep Juniors in the Macarthur area, being Harold Mathews and SG Ball 4\. Wests Tigers also support the cubs to development squads in the Macarthur region and Balmain areas. 5\. Close support / association with Kebra park

2011 and prior the Wests Tigers provided significant support and funding to the Magpies juniors and seniors.

Wests Magpies

Board structure is Four Directors appointed by WAL, Three appointed by the members. Funding currently is primarily dependant on WAL New sponsors were approached last year but for a number of reason did not come to fruition. Game day attendances were disappointing, costs of game days exceeded any income, ( except for the back to Lidcombe day). Crowd attendance directly impacts prospective sponsors. We have a board, and no other infrastructure. WAL paid for an Operations manager full time for six or so months (Daniel Watson Hayes). We have no other staff

We have a small and active group of volunteers ; being John Harbon, Bluey Schafer, Dave McEwan, Val McEwan, Jeff Applitt, Charlie Tuxford, Steve Reeves, Ed Topolski, Keith Toploski, Steve Hartis, Scott Morris, Keith Hoare, Shaun Huthnance.

We again thanks these special people who provide extensive time and effort to the club. Without these people our club could not exist.

Alternatives

The following alternatives were discussed and were considered by the Magpies board.

1\. West’s Magpies stand alone NSW Cup side

2\. Joint Venture NSW Cup side –Wests Tigers

3\. Have a year off ,build and plan for the following year and future years.

4\. Enter a Bundy Cup Team

Alternative 1

Stand alone Magpies NSW Cup side

The Magpies currently have minimal sponsors –apart from WAL Additional or new sponsors would be difficult to obtain in the current environment especially because of all the uncertainty. We don’t have a Russel Crowe or Nathan Tinkler. Money is hard to come by. The ARL Commission has not provided us or considered stand alone NSW Cup sides to date, but there is talk of a restructured of all three grades. WAL will continue to support the Magpies but have limited funding and they have many other business commitments. Government regulations have impacted the availability of funds available. WAL can’t the sustain the funding it currently does to the Magpies and the Wests Tigers.

Alternative 2

Joint Venture combined team called the West Tigers

A resolution was passed by the Magpies Board by a majority vote on xx/xx/2012 to pursue the viability of this option. 8 none negotiable points were agreed up by the Magpies board if this alternative was to proceed;

Resolution Passed by a majority - WSDRLFC Ltd. supports recommendations of a single State Cup Team

M Liubinskas, Steve Lavers and Warren McDonnell formed a sub committee to provide and gather information for the benefit of all parties

Western Suburbs District Rugby League Football Club Ltd (WSDRLFC Ltd.) supports the recommendations of the Joint Football Subcommittee; the West’s Tigers enter a team in the State Cup Competition and thereafter which will be financially supported in part by WSDRLFC Ltd. subject to the following conditions;

1). Western Suburbs Magpies (WSM) recognised as the District Club of the Campbelltown Area 2). WSM will continue to participate (as the Magpies) in Junior Representatives, Harold Matthews and S.G. Ball and where appropriate other competitions 3). WSM retains all of its rights, including the ability to review the operation of a single State Cup (SC) team in future years. 4). West’s Tigers (WT) continues to work with WSM to ensure that appropriate pathways are met for the Junior Rugby League Players in the South West. 5). The 2013 combined SC playing strip would alternate between Balmain and West’s colours 6). West’s Juniors will continue IN PERPETUITY to be affiliated through WSDRLFC Ltd. as the pathway to WT 7). The name of the team is to be West’s Tigers, that is the joint venture name, and no other organisations or sponsors are to be recognised in the team name 8). An agreement regarding a single stream State Cup team must be in writing in an acceptable format with conditions listed as part of that agreement for a 12 month period

Alternatives 3.

Alternative 3\. Have a year off , build and plan for the following year –this was dismissed and considered not feasible as re entry could not be guaranteed. The club would have to reapply for entry, and meet certain conditions.

Alternative 4.

Enter a Bundy Cup Team –this alternative has not been fully analysed, but could be an option in the future.

Emulation of a variation of the Newton model would allow this alternative to be considered feasible, but would take a year or two to set up. Funding is always an issue.

Wests Tigers Board

SUMMARY OF THE DECISIONS MADE BY THE WESTS TIGERS BOARD IN RELATION TO NSW CUP PARTICIPATION FROM 2013

The following motion was put to the 30 August Board meeting of Wests Tigers:

“That the Board of Wests Tigers endorse the concept of a single stream NSW Cup side to play under the name of Wests Tigers from 2013.”

The discussion that followed concluded with the following amended motion being put to the 6 September Board meeting of Wests Tigers:

“That the Board of Wests Tigers endorse the concept of a single stream NSW Cup side to play under the name of Wests Tigers from 2013 and to be subject to the six recommendations of the Wests Tigers Football Sub-Committee being:

1\. The single stream NSW Cup team be named Wests Tigers. 2\. The team is to be managed by Wests Tigers including the contracting of all players, coaches and support staff. 3\. Home venues are to be equally distributed between Campbelltown and Leichhardt. 4\. The team will play in Wests Tigers heritage style jerseys, alternating between the Wests and the Balmain versions so as to provide an equal distribution of jersey allocation. 5\. The primary training base will be Concord Oval. 6\. All costs are to be budgeted for and managed by Wests Tigers.

This motion was carried with unanimous support.

The Wests Tigers Board also acknowledged their “in principle” agreement with the following items:

1\. Western Suburbs Magpies and Balmain Tigers to be recognized as the District Clubs in their respective areas.

2\. Western Suburbs Magpies and Balmain Tigers will continue to participate in their respective names in Junior Representative competitions, including Harold Matthews and SG Ball and other competitions where appropriate.

3\. Western Suburbs Magpies and Balmain Tigers retain all of their respective rights, including the ability to enter and support teams in any competition other than those of the NRL in future years.

4\. Wests Tigers will continue to work with the District Clubs to ensure that appropriate pathways are met for Junior Rugby League players in their respective areas.

5\. Wests Tigers will continue to support the perpetual affiliation of Western Suburbs Magpies and Balmain Tigers with their respective Junior Leagues.

Challenges for the Future

Keep in mind nothing is set in stone and changes will occur

Produce a Business Plan required year by year for 3 years. This is very difficult due to the ever changing environment.

A change in coach ( Tim Sheens) could have a significant effect.

ARL Commission (ARL C) has to recognise the importance of the Macarthur district, and the volume of juniors at risk in this area.

All parties and ARL C needs to have an overall strategy to deal with AFL and Soccer.

West’s Campbelltown Leagues Club should be more involved as a part of the Rugby League community

West’s Magpies to rebuild relations with Wests Tigers and take advantage of economies of scale available to West’s Tigers.

The Business Plan to address;

Set up a Wests Magpies tour for Junior players in Macarthur area? To NZ, Fiji, England or USA.

Reconnect with the Macarthur region as district club, and also with the juniors and senior Macarthur clubs.

Reconnect or connect with Group 6

Look to establish a senior team - WSDRLFC in Campbelltown thru 2013 ,for season 2014 eg a Bundy Cup side

Follow up the ARLC on competition structures and grades. We should have at least one senior Wests Magpies team

Part of connecting with the Macarthur area would entail renting a shop front or office in the region as our office or utilise the WT office at Leumeah

Provide a range of merchandise that will appeal to a wide audience, to keep our brand active throughout outlets such as West Campbelltown, West Ashfield and West’s Tigers and the internet.

If it goes ahead as it looks like ,support the combined one West’s Tigers State Cup Team.

Continue to support our junior Rep games, and endeavour to have them play before senior games

Conclusion

The conclusion should be an appeal to talk it up - not down, and get behind making next year work.

West’s Ashfield can’t support two stand alone teams being the West Tigers NRL and The West’s Magpies NSW Cup.

West’s Ashfield continue to support the Magpies. Board meetings are held at Ashfield General meetings are held at Ashfield Numerous high quality functions have and will be held at Ashfield

West’s Ashfield agree with the view that all aspects of our football should be centred around the Macarthur region

West’s Ashfield and the Magpies football club both agree a major priority is to somehow get West’s Campbelltown more involved, after all its their community

All options still remain, nothing is set in stone and changes will occur in the future.
\
\
\
_Posted using RoarFEED 2012_