What is the point of the Wests Tigers?

[jirskyr]

The issue with Tigers is wins, and wins only. The support is enormous at Campbelltown or Leichhardt if the wins are there. We were consistently getting 18-20K at both grounds during 2005, and that is maxing them out. In fact the support is hardy despite the lack of success.

Whether or not Tigers should base themselves at Campbo, it's a never-ending argument of no depth whatsoever, and I've never seen a single good point made for moving FT to Campbo except "population". And even that is spurious - what does population even mean?

I've made the point many times, the population in Campbo is certainly growing, but that is also true of many areas in Sydney, and nobody ever writes about it with any thought.

For example - Camden is the fastest-growing LGA in Australia ~7%), ok, which makes it... the 27th largest LGA in NSW. Canterbury LGA is 4x bigger than Camden. Campbelltown is approx twice as big again, but itself only ranks 17th for total population. I wonder if there is any evidence to suggest that Camden/Campelltown will ever overtake heavily populated LGAs like Canterbury, Blacktown, Northern Beaches, Parramatta, CBD (Top 5)?

Actually the second fastest growing LGA in NSW is Strathfield, which grew 4%. Does that make Strathfield a population hotspot? Well probably no, because that 4% is only 1000 people. Percentages can be misleading - for example, China is estimated as being 4% Christian, but that means there are 44 million Christians in China, which is more than France or Spain or the UK.

Why is Camden growing and how big will it get? Well you would argue it's growing percentage-wise because there used to be nobody out there. It used to be farms and half-acre blocks. Get 50K to move there and sure as hell that's a big % increase. Who is moving there? Rugby league fanatics? People who will become rugby league fanatics?

And why does population equal potential for support? Second-fastest growing region in Australia is Wyndham in VIC, but sure as hell you aren't going to grow many rugby league supporters there. And part of the issue is obvious - immigrants make up a large part of population increase in new / low density areas, driven strongly by house prices, and immigrants are not necessarily an easy cohort to convert to a certain sport. Because if they were, the West, SW and NW regions would be getting bigger and bigger sporting teams every year - and for certain that is not occurring. Who is the biggest soccer team in Sydney? CBD-based FC, followed by Western Wanderers. Biggest AFL side? Swans based in Eastern Suburbs. Where do the Waratahs base themselves? East. Sydney Kings? The Netball sides?

 

[jirskyr]

“The Tigers can still train at Concord if they like, but they need to accept the South Western Sydney region is their heartland and where they can draw strength from. In a salary-capped competition like the NRL, having access to that stream of talent”
^THIS!!!

What people dont realise is the Mountains of houses appearing past Macarthur. Its like how Kellyville went from Doughie oval to McMansion central. The number of houses and Suburbs from there is going to be huge.

I'm afraid there are two bits of baloney here.

Second one first - sure houses are appearing where they didn't used to be in the South West. Same with North West and West. Sure. But what about the mountains of houses that already exist in established suburbs? What about the housing density in the CBD and inner South Sydney? Far far more people in a much smaller catchment. What about the populations in untapped markets like Perth, Adelaide, a second team in Brisbane, Melbourne? What is the fixation with Campbelltown as a region?

Then the first furphy - "stream of talent". Firstly I haven't seen any data to suggest Macarthur provides a disproportionate amount of either junior footballers or NRL-quality footballers, compared to any other region. Even just looking at the Tigers 2021, do we have any Macarthur junior players in FG apart from Nofo? There are two Balmain juniors, and by far more Kiwi-born/raised players.

Who are the two most successful teams of the past 10+ years? Easily Storm and Easts, and they also easily have the smallest junior talent pools in the comp. Storm obviously historically recruit heavily from QLD and Easts' most high-profile footballers of recent years are not from Eastern Sydney - not Keary, not Tedesco, not Sam Walker, not Latrell, not Joey Manu, not RTS, not Brad Fittler etc.

There's nothing to stop any modern-day club heavily mining any region for juniors. There's nothing to stop you at NRL level. Benji Marshall sure as hell is not from Sydney, nor is Daine Laurie from our juniors, nor is Stefano or Shawn Blore.

 

[tigerbalm]

To keep Newcastle out of the 8 in 2021 it seems.

 

[tig_prmz]

Who we are is a club with a huge supporter base - click bait for anyone who needs to write a story.

great summary!

 

[tig_prmz]

As far as the South West is concerned. There is a lot of migrants (indians, Asians, Lebanese, Nepalese, South Americans etc) who haven't accepted Rugby League and are unlikely to accept it as their primary sport unless there is a massive push towards inclusiveness. I still only see Caucasians and Polynesians as probably 95% of the NRL playing group.

Further, I got into Rugby League as a migrant because of FTA exposure as a teenager. However, teenagers don't watch TV much these days. Online platforms are preferred by most out here.

There needs to be a massive push towards multicultrulism in the NRL and I hope this crackdown on head contact helps bring in the newer population.

 

[tiger_one]

Who we are is a club with a huge supporter base - click bait for anyone who needs to write a story.

Nailed it.

 

[innsaneink]

**Repeating myself here. The Western Suburbs Magpies tried Campbelltown for over a decade and failed. Wests Tigers have tried Campbelltown for over a decade and failed. No need to try a third time, the result won’t change. Liverpool will be no different IMO.** Wests Tigers are an inner city club, no point denying it any longer.

SFS and the COE at Concord are the future. We will thrive with that combination while still developing juniors from both the inner city and the SW of Sydney.

Are you saying the inner city has suceeded?

In terms of the fan base yes.

The big end of town will not go anywhere near Campbelltown...this is where the big $$ are ,they want modern stadia ..situated around major hotels and eateries and centrally located not an 1.5hr drive from the CBD, this alone will be a major part of the decision the club will make selecting a home ground .

Doesn't seem to be a drama
for penrith

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

As far as the South West is concerned. There is a lot of migrants (indians, Asians, Lebanese, Nepalese, South Americans etc) who haven't accepted Rugby League and are unlikely to accept it as their primary sport unless there is a massive push towards inclusiveness. I still only see Caucasians and Polynesians as probably 95% of the NRL playing group.

Further, I got into Rugby League as a migrant because of FTA exposure as a teenager. However, teenagers don't watch TV much these days. Online platforms are preferred by most out here.

There needs to be a massive push towards multicultrulism in the NRL and I hope this crackdown on head contact helps bring in the newer population.

The Lebanese are far more likely to embrace RL than the others you have mentioned.

South Americans are football fans, you might be able to get them to follow RL as casual fans but the South Americans I know don't pony up to go to games and don't really spend large amounts of money on paraphernalia.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

**Repeating myself here. The Western Suburbs Magpies tried Campbelltown for over a decade and failed. Wests Tigers have tried Campbelltown for over a decade and failed. No need to try a third time, the result won’t change. Liverpool will be no different IMO.** Wests Tigers are an inner city club, no point denying it any longer.

SFS and the COE at Concord are the future. We will thrive with that combination while still developing juniors from both the inner city and the SW of Sydney.

Are you saying the inner city has suceeded?

In terms of the fan base yes.

The big end of town will not go anywhere near Campbelltown...this is where the big $$ are ,they want modern stadia ..situated around major hotels and eateries and centrally located not an 1.5hr drive from the CBD, this alone will be a major part of the decision the club will make selecting a home ground .

Doesn't seem to be a drama
for penrith

They've got a stupid amount of Leagues club money, they wouldn't be as reliant on corporates.

 

[crazycat]

“The Tigers can still train at Concord if they like, but they need to accept the South Western Sydney region is their heartland and where they can draw strength from. In a salary-capped competition like the NRL, having access to that stream of talent”
^THIS!!!

What people dont realise is the Mountains of houses appearing past Macarthur. Its like how Kellyville went from Doughie oval to McMansion central. The number of houses and Suburbs from there is going to be huge.

I'm afraid there are two bits of baloney here.

Second one first - sure houses are appearing where they didn't used to be in the South West. Same with North West and West. Sure. But what about the mountains of houses that already exist in established suburbs? What about the housing density in the CBD and inner South Sydney? Far far more people in a much smaller catchment. What about the populations in untapped markets like Perth, Adelaide, a second team in Brisbane, Melbourne? What is the fixation with Campbelltown as a region?

Then the first furphy - "stream of talent". Firstly I haven't seen any data to suggest Macarthur provides a disproportionate amount of either junior footballers or NRL-quality footballers, compared to any other region. Even just looking at the Tigers 2021, do we have any Macarthur junior players in FG apart from Nofo? There are two Balmain juniors, and by far more Kiwi-born/raised players.

Who are the two most successful teams of the past 10+ years? Easily Storm and Easts, and they also easily have the smallest junior talent pools in the comp. Storm obviously historically recruit heavily from QLD and Easts' most high-profile footballers of recent years are not from Eastern Sydney - not Keary, not Tedesco, not Sam Walker, not Latrell, not Joey Manu, not RTS, not Brad Fittler etc.

There's nothing to stop any modern-day club heavily mining any region for juniors. There's nothing to stop you at NRL level. Benji Marshall sure as hell is not from Sydney, nor is Daine Laurie from our juniors, nor is Stefano or Shawn Blore.

Hold on.
The Storm have clear recruitment catchments in QLD and the north coast NSW.
Yes Easts stripmine other clubs development players but have scouts to bring guys like Boyd Cordner from the Knights.
And....
Were not Easts.
We will never Ever be the flight deck they are.

So why be their poor cousin. Hey Cooper Cronk you can sign at Easts for 800k. We will settle for Reynolds or Mbye...
How is this going to win us games?

Your Inner city families have 4-5 clubs competing for their talent.
Macarthur has Nothing. No Club has marked the area. Liverpool likewise has nothing as far as Club presence is concerned.
New Houses, new Families, open spaces, football fans. No one to claim the area.

But hey lets rub with Bulldogs, Dragons, Parra, Easts, etc in an overcrowded sydney basin.

We will only advance either with a good Junior pipe or Frank Lowy's cheque book.

 

[TigerWest]

“The Tigers can still train at Concord if they like, but they need to accept the South Western Sydney region is their heartland and where they can draw strength from. In a salary-capped competition like the NRL, having access to that stream of talent”
^THIS!!!

What people dont realise is the Mountains of houses appearing past Macarthur. Its like how Kellyville went from Doughie oval to McMansion central. The number of houses and Suburbs from there is going to be huge.

I'm afraid there are two bits of baloney here.

Second one first - sure houses are appearing where they didn't used to be in the South West. Same with North West and West. Sure. But what about the mountains of houses that already exist in established suburbs? What about the housing density in the CBD and inner South Sydney? Far far more people in a much smaller catchment. What about the populations in untapped markets like Perth, Adelaide, a second team in Brisbane, Melbourne? What is the fixation with Campbelltown as a region?

Then the first furphy - "stream of talent". Firstly I haven't seen any data to suggest Macarthur provides a disproportionate amount of either junior footballers or NRL-quality footballers, compared to any other region. Even just looking at the Tigers 2021, do we have any Macarthur junior players in FG apart from Nofo? There are two Balmain juniors, and by far more Kiwi-born/raised players.

Who are the two most successful teams of the past 10+ years? Easily Storm and Easts, and they also easily have the smallest junior talent pools in the comp. Storm obviously historically recruit heavily from QLD and Easts' most high-profile footballers of recent years are not from Eastern Sydney - not Keary, not Tedesco, not Sam Walker, not Latrell, not Joey Manu, not RTS, not Brad Fittler etc.

There's nothing to stop any modern-day club heavily mining any region for juniors. There's nothing to stop you at NRL level. Benji Marshall sure as hell is not from Sydney, nor is Daine Laurie from our juniors, nor is Stefano or Shawn Blore.

Hold on.
The Storm have clear recruitment catchments in QLD and the north coast NSW.
Yes Easts stripmine other clubs development players but have scouts to bring guys like Boyd Cordner from the Knights.
And....
Were not Easts.
We will never Ever be the flight deck they are.

So why be their poor cousin. Hey Cooper Cronk you can sign at Easts for 800k. We will settle for Reynolds or Mbye...
How is this going to win us games?

Your Inner city families have 4-5 clubs competing for their talent.
Macarthur has Nothing. No Club has marked the area. Liverpool likewise has nothing as far as Club presence is concerned.
New Houses, new Families, open spaces, football fans. No one to claim the area.

But hey lets rub with Bulldogs, Dragons, Parra, Easts, etc in an overcrowded sydney basin.

We will only advance either with a good Junior pipe or Frank Lowy's cheque book.

I don’t think we need Frank’s money anymore, but always welcome I guess?

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

“The Tigers can still train at Concord if they like, but they need to accept the South Western Sydney region is their heartland and where they can draw strength from. In a salary-capped competition like the NRL, having access to that stream of talent”
^THIS!!!

What people dont realise is the Mountains of houses appearing past Macarthur. Its like how Kellyville went from Doughie oval to McMansion central. The number of houses and Suburbs from there is going to be huge.

I'm afraid there are two bits of baloney here.

Second one first - sure houses are appearing where they didn't used to be in the South West. Same with North West and West. Sure. But what about the mountains of houses that already exist in established suburbs? What about the housing density in the CBD and inner South Sydney? Far far more people in a much smaller catchment. What about the populations in untapped markets like Perth, Adelaide, a second team in Brisbane, Melbourne? What is the fixation with Campbelltown as a region?

Then the first furphy - "stream of talent". Firstly I haven't seen any data to suggest Macarthur provides a disproportionate amount of either junior footballers or NRL-quality footballers, compared to any other region. Even just looking at the Tigers 2021, do we have any Macarthur junior players in FG apart from Nofo? There are two Balmain juniors, and by far more Kiwi-born/raised players.

Who are the two most successful teams of the past 10+ years? Easily Storm and Easts, and they also easily have the smallest junior talent pools in the comp. Storm obviously historically recruit heavily from QLD and Easts' most high-profile footballers of recent years are not from Eastern Sydney - not Keary, not Tedesco, not Sam Walker, not Latrell, not Joey Manu, not RTS, not Brad Fittler etc.

There's nothing to stop any modern-day club heavily mining any region for juniors. There's nothing to stop you at NRL level. Benji Marshall sure as hell is not from Sydney, nor is Daine Laurie from our juniors, nor is Stefano or Shawn Blore.

Hold on.
The Storm have clear recruitment catchments in QLD and the north coast NSW.
Yes Easts stripmine other clubs development players but have scouts to bring guys like Boyd Cordner from the Knights.
And....
Were not Easts.
We will never Ever be the flight deck they are.

So why be their poor cousin. Hey Cooper Cronk you can sign at Easts for 800k. We will settle for Reynolds or Mbye...
How is this going to win us games?

Your Inner city families have 4-5 clubs competing for their talent.
Macarthur has Nothing. No Club has marked the area. Liverpool likewise has nothing as far as Club presence is concerned.
New Houses, new Families, open spaces, football fans. No one to claim the area.

But hey lets rub with Bulldogs, Dragons, Parra, Easts, etc in an overcrowded sydney basin.

We will only advance either with a good Junior pipe or Frank Lowy's cheque book.

I don’t think we need Frank’s money anymore, but always welcome I guess?

Do we mean Harry T? Frank is a football man.

 

[Geo]

There is no point to Wests Tigers it’s 100 % true..

Except the beauty of sport...where one day they play like NRL standard players and win a game..for the mighty Wests Tigers jersey...

😊😊

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

As far as the South West is concerned. There is a lot of migrants (indians, Asians, Lebanese, Nepalese, South Americans etc) who haven't accepted Rugby League and are unlikely to accept it as their primary sport unless there is a massive push towards inclusiveness. I still only see Caucasians and Polynesians as probably 95% of the NRL playing group.

I think you might be wrong about Lebanese.🤫

 

[TigerWest]

“The Tigers can still train at Concord if they like, but they need to accept the South Western Sydney region is their heartland and where they can draw strength from. In a salary-capped competition like the NRL, having access to that stream of talent”
^THIS!!!

What people dont realise is the Mountains of houses appearing past Macarthur. Its like how Kellyville went from Doughie oval to McMansion central. The number of houses and Suburbs from there is going to be huge.

I'm afraid there are two bits of baloney here.

Second one first - sure houses are appearing where they didn't used to be in the South West. Same with North West and West. Sure. But what about the mountains of houses that already exist in established suburbs? What about the housing density in the CBD and inner South Sydney? Far far more people in a much smaller catchment. What about the populations in untapped markets like Perth, Adelaide, a second team in Brisbane, Melbourne? What is the fixation with Campbelltown as a region?

Then the first furphy - "stream of talent". Firstly I haven't seen any data to suggest Macarthur provides a disproportionate amount of either junior footballers or NRL-quality footballers, compared to any other region. Even just looking at the Tigers 2021, do we have any Macarthur junior players in FG apart from Nofo? There are two Balmain juniors, and by far more Kiwi-born/raised players.

Who are the two most successful teams of the past 10+ years? Easily Storm and Easts, and they also easily have the smallest junior talent pools in the comp. Storm obviously historically recruit heavily from QLD and Easts' most high-profile footballers of recent years are not from Eastern Sydney - not Keary, not Tedesco, not Sam Walker, not Latrell, not Joey Manu, not RTS, not Brad Fittler etc.

There's nothing to stop any modern-day club heavily mining any region for juniors. There's nothing to stop you at NRL level. Benji Marshall sure as hell is not from Sydney, nor is Daine Laurie from our juniors, nor is Stefano or Shawn Blore.

Hold on.
The Storm have clear recruitment catchments in QLD and the north coast NSW.
Yes Easts stripmine other clubs development players but have scouts to bring guys like Boyd Cordner from the Knights.
And....
Were not Easts.
We will never Ever be the flight deck they are.

So why be their poor cousin. Hey Cooper Cronk you can sign at Easts for 800k. We will settle for Reynolds or Mbye...
How is this going to win us games?

Your Inner city families have 4-5 clubs competing for their talent.
Macarthur has Nothing. No Club has marked the area. Liverpool likewise has nothing as far as Club presence is concerned.
New Houses, new Families, open spaces, football fans. No one to claim the area.

But hey lets rub with Bulldogs, Dragons, Parra, Easts, etc in an overcrowded sydney basin.

We will only advance either with a good Junior pipe or Frank Lowy's cheque book.

I don’t think we need Frank’s money anymore, but always welcome I guess?

Do we mean Harry T? Frank is a football man.

Oops, yes correct.

 

[TigerWest]

As far as the South West is concerned. There is a lot of migrants (indians, Asians, Lebanese, Nepalese, South Americans etc) who haven't accepted Rugby League and are unlikely to accept it as their primary sport unless there is a massive push towards inclusiveness. I still only see Caucasians and Polynesians as probably 95% of the NRL playing group.

Further, I got into Rugby League as a migrant because of FTA exposure as a teenager. However, teenagers don't watch TV much these days. Online platforms are preferred by most out here.

There needs to be a massive push towards multicultrulism in the NRL and I hope this crackdown on head contact helps bring in the newer population.

Their kids and their grandchildren will. I think it’s already happening, look at the Panthers as an example.

 

[jirskyr]

Your Inner city families have 4-5 clubs competing for their talent.
Macarthur has Nothing. No Club has marked the area. Liverpool likewise has nothing as far as Club presence is concerned.
New Houses, new Families, open spaces, football fans. No one to claim the area.

Every club is signing any player from any region, that's the point. You can go all-in on a region and still lose your juniors to other clubs very easily.

That's not to say a balanced approach isn't workable (local and imported juniors), because I think it is, but personally I think league is shifting more and more away from region-based fealty as the populations of Australia mix.

For example Tedesco, by all rights geographically should bleed Wests Magpies blood, but by all accounts him and his Dad were Roosters fanatics and his wider family were old Balmain supporters?

I'm a Tigers supporter living on the border of Bulldogs and Dragons territory. If my lad plays junior football it won't be for Wests or Balmain districts.

It's also not correct to assume that inner city families have more clubs competing for talent than other regions. A kid from Camden Rams or Campelltown has as much chance of feeling affiliated with Wests as a Leichhardt Juniors or Five Dock RSL kid does with Tigers.