Where are we going wrong ??

[Flippedy]

Sorry space camel missed one question

Players who have under performed Ryan Ohara , Adam Blair, Pettybourne,Nick Graham,Lolesi,Corey Payne,

While asking questions Space Camel tell me five players who have improved after we signed them ??

Hodgeson, Richards, Payten, Prince, Galloway, although I guess Galloway was still fairly young. Utai was signed after years of mediocrity/park footy and produced a great 14 months of footy before age caught up. McKinnon was signed from park footy and produced for us until his hammys went again.

I agree we have many more who have underperformed, but we do have players who came here and played well too.

Richards was coming off a broken leg, Prince was coming off two broken legs, MacKinnon was playing great footy until he went to the Warriors ,Keefy was still coping after the horrific Hoppa incident , and I don't think I'd say that Payten got better or worse actually

The only ones I could honestly say improved when they came here were Hodgson (although he was always good wherever he played), Payten and Whatuira. MacKinnon was way less effective here, Utai was far better at the Bulldogs in his early days and Galloway is 50-50\. As you say, both Prince and Richards were coming off long term injuries, but both had shown fairly good form beforehand, also.

As for O'Hara, Graham, Harris, Lolesi, Morris, Pettybourne and Blair - the less said, the better lol.

 

[Eye_Of_Da_Tiger]

The board. An obvious answer. To many chiefs not enough Indians !

 

[WTDiehard]

Our club culture is somewhat fractured. That has not helped the club moving forward with what I consider to be strong 3 and 5 year plans.

Sheens, farah and marshall have influenced the style of footy the team has played. When Marshall was at his brilliant best…it was easy for the team to follow but as Marshall's reliability has wained and errors in his game increased, the players around him no longer found themselves looking like superstars. Example in the last 2 years lawrence and ashyford have barely made a break or run into a hole, look at how many tries those two players scored in 2010 &11 and compare the last two years.

Sheens was great at coaching smaller, more mobile packs but the game has changed and the wrestle and slowing down the play the ball changed that. Our pack has not adapted. Big boppers like Fifita were shown the door and look how that worked out for us. Gibbs who did so much work for us in around the ruck was also flicked and in the past two years our defense has really suffered.

Farah is still a class player, but he needs help. A strong forward pack, a proper organising number 7 and the back to do their job preferably with a contributing number 6.

Benji in his heyday was a freak, but father time has brought him down to earth. It will be sad to see him go but it helps us move forward. Had we spend 1 milion a year for the next 5 years to keep him that would have been disasterous for the club...we would have lost our young guns coming through and the young guns are our future.

Lastly Mick Potter. I really rate this bloke. I think he is a very shrewed coach and I think he has handled the political aspects of the side very well. Potter knew Marshall, Moltzen and some of our other high profile players were on their last legs at the club but the fallout from just axing them would have probably ended his job. He has allowed them to virtually fall over the cliff on their own and now that the cleanout and revamp of the squad is on he can put his own plan together with the players he needs to do the job. Potter did not win two coach's of the year awards in the UK by being a mug....he knows the game and watchout next year as our squad does what Penrith and the Raiders have done this year and become more competitive. If all goes well watch where the Tigers are 2 or 3 years from now.

 

[PYMBLEPETE]

**When you see opposition players talking about the Tigers ( Paul Gallens and Nathan Hindmarsh as examples ) they seem to have little or no respect for us ??**
Not disagreeing with your whole post Happy, but how many times have Gallen or Hindmarsh played in winning teams against the Tigers? Until this year, the Sharks in particular haven't beaten us more than once or twice in the past decade. So I wouldnt place too much store in what those guys have to say.

 

[system]

Inability to come up with a first grade halfback. With Prince and later with Louie, we made the semis, we were a contender. Without a halfback, we've always been rubbish. Benji marshall isn't a halback, Robbie Farah isn't a halfback, Curtis sironen isn't a halfback, John Morris wasn't a halfback, Tim Moltzen is a passable halfback, but not really first grade material. This year Jacob Miller showed a glimmer in the number 7, but couldn't cut it in first grade either.

Plus a lot of other issues others have mentioned, but it's the halfback situation that makes me think all the bad thoughts I usually repress.

Yes, Sheens was the problem here. Thought he was smart and that we didn't need a halfback. Tried to fudge a halfback out of anyone he could come up with. Also signed the marquee players, Anasta and Blair who haven't done anything. Lote who was good for a bit, but Ellis being the only decent one. The top sides have the spine going, which includes a 7, which we haven't had since Prince/Lui. Makes sense. But things are looking up. Have trust in Teddy, Robbie, Brooks. Also Melbourne are a one town team. More money with Sponsors etc. Tigers boast the best Juniors. Now we can't keep them all, but gives us the opportunity to pick the ones we want. Think Potter and Mayer are forming a good relationship. We are rebuilding. We were rebuilding with Sheens, but he [This word has been automatically removed]ed it.

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[strrretch]

Its not easy to say what makes a consistently winning side sometimes.
When I look back to 05 , I honestly cannot say geez that team was full of topline players…....lots of young blokes a few more experienced heads. I remember the run to the finals , thinking surely the bubble wil burest......but no, was soo good.

Attitude is certainly a factor, in recent times it seems some of our players struggle with that one.
Mistake rates seem to be important...rarely does a side win when they cough up the ball too easily. We certainly are guilty of doing so too often .

Luck and bounce of the ball can be a factor too, but I reckon any team that plays with self belief and keeps their mistake rate down can usually overcome that.

I reckon the tigers in recent years lack self confidence, dont know why, for the most part, I reckon the personel have been ok...

When self confidence is missing, the most talented do the most stupid things

 

[gallagher]

Why would a player come to us? Serious question.

It would only be for money and going to a club solely for money is rarely a good career move.

 

[dazza65]

Why would a player come to us? Serious question.

It would only be for money and going to a club solely for money is rarely a good career move.

Parra don't have a problem and they stink more than WT.

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[gallagher]

Why would a player come to us? Serious question.

It would only be for money and going to a club solely for money is rarely a good career move.

Parra don't have a problem and they stink more than WT.

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Dont care about Parra. Can you come up with a reason to come play for us?

 

[cktiger]

Didn't utai win rookie of the year back when he played for the dogs? **So i'd say he did marginally worse after coming here,** and then got substantially worse in the last year or so.

Utai was playing reserve grade for most of 2009 and played park football in 2010 - how you could think he was a failure when he then managed to secure a permanent spot in first grade in 2011 (and longer) is beyond me.
And yes , he did win rookie of the year…. in 2002.

 

[GNR4LIFE]

Why would a player come to us? Serious question.

It would only be for money and going to a club solely for money is rarely a good career move.

Parra don't have a problem and they stink more than WT.

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Parra don't have a problem? is that sarcasm? So far this yr they've attempted to throw millions at Tamou, Scott, Thurston, Farah. They managed to sign Josh Papalii who reneged soon after. One of the two Pommies that signed attempted to renege, and theres even been talk that Hoppa wants to get out of his contract too. Not sure where you've been but its been but its been well publicized the last couple yrs how they've failed to attract marquee players despite offering big money, and have had to resort to paying overs for average first graders. Case in point Corey Norman is rumored to be on around 500K a yr. If it were any other club i wouldn't believe it.

 

[liltiger]

IMO The major problem with our club, is we have never focused on our strength's, we have only focused on the team's weaknesses and tried to find or mix and match players to fill the position's. The Tigers strength's are we have the best breeding ground of talent bar no-one. But because our junior development was neglected imo now we have a sort of gap between the NRL and our juniors. What i mean by a gap is we have promising juniors, but it's the step up to NRL level footy where some are being left behind. Instead of spending so much money on buying players the club could have invested in and persevered with our juniors. Let's not forget that for a decade we had a coach who was very tentative to promote young talent, we now have a coach who through necessity has to, that is a huge club culture shift, one that will take time, mark my word's the more juniors we promote to first grade the better these juniors will perform and the more they will develop, it's a snowball effect and every year the club continues to do so the gap between the juniors and NRL side becomes smaller, through all the experience and learning being done by the juniors and club, better procedures are implemented and the juniors we have develop to a higher standard and step up much faster. If you think about the juniors Wests and Balmain have lost we would have some team. It takes time but we need to remember short term pain for a long term gain.

 

[LaT]

Didn't utai win rookie of the year back when he played for the dogs? **So i'd say he did marginally worse after coming here,** and then got substantially worse in the last year or so.

Utai was playing reserve grade for most of 2009 and played park football in 2010 - how you could think he was a failure when he then managed to secure a permanent spot in first grade in 2011 (and longer) is beyond me.
And yes , he did win rookie of the year…. in 2002.

Bingo.

 

[innsaneink]

IMO The major problem with our club, is we have never focused on our strength's, we have only focused on the team's weaknesses and tried to find or mix and match players to fill the position's. The Tigers strength's are we have the best breeding ground of talent bar no-one. But because our junior development was neglected imo now we have a sort of gap between the NRL and our juniors. What i mean by a gap is we have promising juniors, but it's the step up to NRL level footy where some are being left behind. Instead of spending so much money on buying players the club could have invested in and persevered with our juniors. Let's not forget that for a decade we had a coach who was very tentative to promote young talent, we now have a coach who through necessity has to, that is a huge club culture shift, one that will take time, mark my word's the more juniors we promote to first grade the better these juniors will perform and the more they will develop, it's a snowball effect and every year the club continues to do so the gap between the juniors and NRL side becomes smaller, through all the experience and learning being done by the juniors and club, better procedures are implemented and the juniors we have develop to a higher standard and step up much faster. If you think about the juniors Wests and Balmain have lost we would have some team. It takes time but we need to remember short term pain for a long term gain.

The junior pathways imo was Sheens strength, he set up the develpment programs the club currently has.
36 odd players have come thru during his tenure…..3.5 per year.
Not bad imo.

 

[innsaneink]

Our club culture is somewhat fractured. That has not helped the club moving forward with what I consider to be strong 3 and 5 year plans.

Sheens, farah and marshall have influenced the style of footy the team has played. When Marshall was at his brilliant best…it was easy for the team to follow but as Marshall's reliability has wained and errors in his game increased, the players around him no longer found themselves looking like superstars. Example in the last 2 years lawrence and ashyford have barely made a break or run into a hole, look at how many tries those two players scored in 2010 &11 and compare the last two years.

Sheens was great at coaching smaller, more mobile packs but the game has changed and the wrestle and slowing down the play the ball changed that. Our pack has not adapted. Big boppers like Fifita were shown the door and look how that worked out for us. Gibbs who did so much work for us in around the ruck was also flicked and in the past two years our defense has really suffered.

Farah is still a class player, but he needs help. A strong forward pack, a proper organising number 7 and the back to do their job preferably with a contributing number 6.

Benji in his heyday was a freak, but father time has brought him down to earth. It will be sad to see him go but it helps us move forward. Had we spend 1 milion a year for the next 5 years to keep him that would have been disasterous for the club...we would have lost our young guns coming through and the young guns are our future.

Lastly Mick Potter. I really rate this bloke. I think he is a very shrewed coach and I think he has handled the political aspects of the side very well. Potter knew Marshall, Moltzen and some of our other high profile players were on their last legs at the club but the fallout from just axing them would have probably ended his job. He has allowed them to virtually fall over the cliff on their own and now that the cleanout and revamp of the squad is on he can put his own plan together with the players he needs to do the job. Potter did not win two coach's of the year awards in the UK by being a mug....he knows the game and watchout next year as our squad does what Penrith and the Raiders have done this year and become more competitive. If all goes well watch where the Tigers are 2 or 3 years from now.

Good post

 

[Flippedy]

Our club culture is somewhat fractured. That has not helped the club moving forward with what I consider to be strong 3 and 5 year plans.

Sheens, farah and marshall have influenced the style of footy the team has played. When Marshall was at his brilliant best…it was easy for the team to follow but as Marshall's reliability has wained and errors in his game increased, the players around him no longer found themselves looking like superstars. Example in the last 2 years lawrence and ashyford have barely made a break or run into a hole, look at how many tries those two players scored in 2010 &11 and compare the last two years.

Sheens was great at coaching smaller, more mobile packs but the game has changed and the wrestle and slowing down the play the ball changed that. Our pack has not adapted. Big boppers like Fifita were shown the door and look how that worked out for us. Gibbs who did so much work for us in around the ruck was also flicked and in the past two years our defense has really suffered.

Farah is still a class player, but he needs help. A strong forward pack, a proper organising number 7 and the back to do their job preferably with a contributing number 6.

Benji in his heyday was a freak, but father time has brought him down to earth. It will be sad to see him go but it helps us move forward. Had we spend 1 milion a year for the next 5 years to keep him that would have been disasterous for the club...we would have lost our young guns coming through and the young guns are our future.

Lastly Mick Potter. I really rate this bloke. I think he is a very shrewed coach and I think he has handled the political aspects of the side very well. Potter knew Marshall, Moltzen and some of our other high profile players were on their last legs at the club but the fallout from just axing them would have probably ended his job. He has allowed them to virtually fall over the cliff on their own and now that the cleanout and revamp of the squad is on he can put his own plan together with the players he needs to do the job. Potter did not win two coach's of the year awards in the UK by being a mug....he knows the game and watchout next year as our squad does what Penrith and the Raiders have done this year and become more competitive. If all goes well watch where the Tigers are 2 or 3 years from now.

Good post

Absolutely yeah, great post! Pretty much nailed the scenario at WT over the past few years, hard to disagree with that analysis.

 

[pHyR3]

Didn't utai win rookie of the year back when he played for the dogs? **So i'd say he did marginally worse after coming here,** and then got substantially worse in the last year or so.

Utai was playing reserve grade for most of 2009 and played park football in 2010 - how you could think he was a failure when he then managed to secure a permanent spot in first grade in 2011 (and longer) is beyond me.
And yes , he did win rookie of the year…. in 2002.

Bingo.

yeah sorry. i forgot about the nsw cup stuff. The failure part is this year, he's now back in reserve grade.

 

[innsaneink]

Something in the fact - for varying reasons - none of our players have really excelled when having to step up another notch into rep footy…

 

[guyofthetiger]

Something also in the fact that if there's a loose ball we're never on it… not to mention when there's a high ball to compete for... Attitude? Confidence? Cohesion? It's true, it may be fault lines that have run all the way down from the board for too long...

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