Why Sheens has shed his stars.

[Balmain_Bug]

Mate, what a crap interview. What lies !!!!!!

Its a salary cap issue and nothing else. Why in Gods name would anyone release Gibbs and Fifita ???

Humpty has poorly managed the cap (like he has everything else) and we are up the creek without a paddle. Its crap management not anything else. Thats why ten weeks ago all was sweet.

Fonz lies again . :frowning:

 

[sunshine_coast_tiger]

Look to future guys Assume we get Blair and Blair only . Lets look at the NYC Try this side on for size
\
\
1 Tedesco
2 Tuqiri
3 Lawrence
4 Sironen
5 Koroibate
6 Marshall
7 Miller
8 Woods
9 Farah (C)
10 Gallaway
11 Blair
12 Ellis
13 Ayshford
14 Heighington
15 Groat
16 Begovich
17 BMM or Dwyer
That is the future Lets get with it now (2012)

That side whilst the young guys could be inconsistent is a team that could make the top 4\. Our young guys have a lot of talent. If the pack made good metres that backline would score mountains of points.

 

[innsaneink]

any idea who the 25 may be next year?
and how many of those will be U20's ?

Dont worry - I think you make a valid point
The juniors Sheens is talking about will know who he means

 

[Blackandwhite]

Mate, what a crap interview. What lies !!!!!!

Its a salary cap issue and nothing else. Why in Gods name would anyone release Gibbs and Fifita ???

Humpty has poorly managed the cap (like he has everything else) and we are up the creek without a paddle. Its crap management not anything else. Thats why ten weeks ago all was sweet.

Fonz lies again . :frowning:

Of course its salary cap issues..when 7 players get half the salary cap it doesn't leave a lot for the other 18 top squad players.

Blaming the youngsters who would get no more than an upgrade of $10,000 - $15,000 is just crap.

My Question is who is responsible ? Who manages the salary cap ?

 

[tig_prmz]

any idea who the 25 may be next year?
and how many of those will be U20's ?

Dont worry - I think you make a valid point
The juniors Sheens is talking about will know who he means

glad someone else agrees.

 

[Tigertime]

Why Sheens has shed his stars"…........ Give me a break why did sheens lose a possible future star and a group of average players, more like it.

these guys have had their opportunity to show what they are capable of,and since 05 they made one final series.

Whether they are going due to miss management or strategically it's a blessing we need a change we need a team that consistently performs.

The way I see it is like playing a game of five card poker these guys might look the goods but aren't going to get us the win throw them in the pile and pick up some new ones.

 

[Red_Rugby]

Guys

You'll have to excuse my ignorance because you're obviously privy to information that I'm not.

I just can't help thinking that if you know that your current crop isn't going to win you a competition surely you're entitled to want to change that crop within the confines of the salary cap? Again correct me if I'm wrong but are any of the group that we're releasing been part of consistently winning seasons? An international is being brought and u/20's are being blooded. Isn't that what most of the forumers are screaming for? A change? There is an outpouring of grief that the Tigers are performing as badly as they are, yet people on the forum want to retain the same group who have consistently underperformed for close on five years.

The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing as you've always done it and expect a different result.

Whenever a player's commitment is questioned the excuse trotted out is that there is disharmony in the club. Forumers I'm sorry but I don't always agree with the CEO's decision but if you keep putting your hand out for the cash then you do what you're told to do. If you disagree strongly enough you move on.

From a financial viewpoint (aside from the $187.000 fine which was a disaster yet is still under appeal) I think Steven Humphreys has done a pretty good job. I'm not a fan of Tim Sheens but I think given what he was handed after the Terry Lamb / Paul Langmack debacle and the fact he delivered a premiership for the first time in 36 years he should be allowed (within reason) to name his own time to move on.

 

[Balmain_Bug]

Red Rugby if we lose Heighington who is gonna match his workrate? Gibbs has a massive defensive workrate especially on our line.

I bet you the Fonz buys a couple of fringe budget 1st graders from other clubs. I will bet my life on it.

These blokes are liars. Most guys released were only recently just signed to extended contracts. We may get the spoon next year. Watch and see.

 

[tom620]

Red Rugby if we lose Heighington who is gonna match his workrate? Gibbs has a massive defensive workrate especially on our line.

I bet you the Fonz buys a couple of fringe budget 1st graders from other clubs. I will bet my life on it.

These blokes are liars. Most guys released were only recently just signed to extended contracts. We may get the spoon next year. Watch and see.

Its the fact that some of the players just had their contracts extended that gets me. Fafita is who I am talking about.

Either they made a mistake with the renewals with respect to their plans for the salary cap or are acting quickly to secure great buys on the market.. Or they have been playing games with all of us.

This whole arguement about the toyota cup young guns contract renewal thing means they stuffed up something. That should have been planned, but they do have some exciting players.

If they sign some good players I will be happy/happier, but I am worried that they will balls it up and get rid of some players they shouldnt. Heighington is the bloke I would pick as a major loss.
Fafita isnt tried and tested - may go great or come undone. Moltzen hasnt been at his best and seems to be floating around in team decisions.

Either way, I want news on some signings and quickly. Oh and a win would be good too.

 

[bonstonker]

so we extended a contract for sheens,so we could rebuild again?

where are the props?
same old same old to me.

he says we need to get bigger and stronger,yet we are turning to kids to do this.
kids that he always sprouts need 50 first grade games to become first graders.
\
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looks to me we are still using backrowers to make the yards.
which has failed year after year.

until i see some seasoned props on the roster i can't see any reason to be optimistic for next year.
\
\
the only way for me to be optimistic is if the nrl gets a new tv deal done quickly.

the nrl is currently a manufactured comp that is being refereed to make the outcomes as close as possible.
they want close games so ratings will show people are staying tuned into games for as close to 80mins as possible.

the product sucks and has quickly become the most boring football code to watch in the world.

get the tv deal done and we may just get back to a free flowing game that i used to love.

 

[Balmain_Bug]

Great post Bon. I agree 100%. If we lose Heighington as well we will be major alsorans in 2012\. The Fonz is the worst coach in the NRL how is he going to develop these u20's players into 1st graders in just 7 months ??
'The Fib' is a pretty average CEO, how his he gonna sign new talent ??

 

[jirskyr]

Guys

You'll have to excuse my ignorance because you're obviously privy to information that I'm not.

I just can't help thinking that if you know that your current crop isn't going to win you a competition surely you're entitled to want to change that crop within the confines of the salary cap? Again correct me if I'm wrong but are any of the group that we're releasing been part of consistently winning seasons? An international is being brought and u/20's are being blooded. Isn't that what most of the forumers are screaming for? A change? There is an outpouring of grief that the Tigers are performing as badly as they are, yet people on the forum want to retain the same group who have consistently underperformed for close on five years.

The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing as you've always done it and expect a different result.

Whenever a player's commitment is questioned the excuse trotted out is that there is disharmony in the club. Forumers I'm sorry but I don't always agree with the CEO's decision but if you keep putting your hand out for the cash then you do what you're told to do. If you disagree strongly enough you move on.

From a financial viewpoint (aside from the $187.000 fine which was a disaster yet is still under appeal) I think Steven Humphreys has done a pretty good job. I'm not a fan of Tim Sheens but I think given what he was handed after the Terry Lamb / Paul Langmack debacle and the fact he delivered a premiership for the first time in 36 years he should be allowed (within reason) to name his own time to move on.

I think you make a lot of good points.

What many people will argue here is that keeping Sheens as coach IS another kind of "repeat insanity" you speak about.

What disappoints me most is that essentially this same team carried us to 3rd last year. Injuries are obviously a big factor, but we all agree the team isn't performing anything like the back end of last year. We still have 2.5 months to get back on track.

Whether or not Sheens is still the guy to do this… well only a clairvoyant knows this. I'm inclined to give him another go, as you said considering he produced a premiership (first of my life) and last year showed it was possible with a firing team.

 

[PYMBLEPETE]

the product sucks and has quickly become the most boring football code to watch in the world.

get the tv deal done and we may just get back to a free flowing game that i used to love.

Couldn't agree more. I never thougtht I would say I prefer to watch rugby to league, but the Super 14 final on Saturday night was more entertaining than any league game I have seen for quite a while.

 

[Drewby]

Mate, what a crap interview. What lies !!!!!!

Its a salary cap issue and nothing else. Why in Gods name would anyone release Gibbs and Fifita ???

Humpty has poorly managed the cap (like he has everything else) and we are up the creek without a paddle. Its crap management not anything else. Thats why ten weeks ago all was sweet.

Fonz lies again . :frowning:

Of course its salary cap issues..when 7 players get half the salary cap it doesn't leave a lot for the other 18 top squad players.

**Blaming the youngsters who would get no more than an upgrade of $10,000 - $15,000 is just crap.**

My Question is who is responsible ? Who manages the salary cap ?

Wait a second - This isn't annual review time where they're saying to these young blokes "hey, good job, here's your x% pay increase" The kids are VERY good prospects for the future and are being headhunted…

Why do you think Fifita left? I'd suggest the only reason we let him go is because we have the likes of Groat and Woods in the wings... AND he was asking for too much money for them to justify it... I mean if Fifita can get $300k and he's only played half a season, what makes these other young "future superstars" not worth half of that?

The Tiger's haven't been able to just give a payrise - they've had to secure our future by matching what other clubs are willing to pay for these blokes... it's entirely feasible that Teams with cap room are looking to pay $150k on a red hot prospect!

 

[supercoach]

Really just a big cover up for a total stuff up of the salary cap. Sheen's has always said that experience is what you need and plenty of it, now we are told its the brilliant crop of juniors that is our no1 priority. I think most things that come out of Camp Concord at present is well constructed spin as the place is in massive damage control.

Really at the end of the day it may be the right road to travel and I really dont think the present top 25 would ever deliver us the holy grail, but things could have been handled so much better and of course if we wanted to travel a new road surely a new coach would have been the first priority. Why have the guide that got you lost take you on a new walk!!!!!!!! Got me beat I think they are making it up as they go along

 

[Blackandwhite]

The Tiger's haven't been able to just give a payrise - they've had to secure our future by matching what other clubs are willing to pay for these blokes… it's entirely feasible that Teams with cap room are looking to pay $150k on a red hot prospect!

I can tell you no kid is or will be on $150k for this year or next and possibly the year after that.

If the current NRL players have been moved on because we are signing 3-4 big name players that makes sence but to say its because we are upgrading the kids is just a lie.

 

[benji_da_gun]

the only way for me to be optimistic is if the nrl gets a new tv deal done quickly.

the nrl is currently a manufactured comp that is being refereed to make the outcomes as close as possible.
they want close games so ratings will show people are staying tuned into games for as close to 80mins as possible.

the product sucks and has quickly become the most boring football code to watch in the world.

**This is spot on Bonstonker.**

The whole ruck/play the ball area in the NRL is a joke at the moment. NRL Management and referees have made it ok for defensive teams to lay all over the tackled player - which slows the game down considerably. Heavy forward packs with wrestling skills dominate the ruck area with gang tackles. I believe this is largely the reason the Tigers have struggled since 2005 (2006 was when the whole dominant tackle era came in i believe). We have a smallish mobile pack which only really works with quick play the balls, and a back line which thrives off the same quick play the ball area. When the ruck area is slowed down, our team tends to overcompensate when attacking which tends to lead to more errors from marginal plays.

2005 was a great year for the NRL as a whole (and I am not just saying that because the Tigers won). Referees were very harsh on defensive teams that slowed the play the ball down. Although this increased the penalties per match, teams like the Tigers and Cowboys were rewarded for their attacking flair. I for one hope that at some point our game returns to a similar place.

 

[Paris_Cobbs]

It's good to hear something, but it still doesn't add up. Why did they resign Gibbs, Fulton and Fifita, then offer to release them only weeks later? This still makes no sense. And, what if none of the 'free to test the market' players had found better offers at other clubs. The players had the option to stay, as Fulton has. Fifita was always going to be offered more that Wests pay him by somebody, but what of the others? What if they'd all just opted to stay? Where would that have left us?

The other thing is that Sheens talks as though Woods and Groat have already been 'upgraded', but this new cap space money has only just become available. And, Blair's salary hasn't yet been agreed upon. Well, he hasn't signed anything.

It's also disquieting to realise that all these players (Gibbs, Fifita, Moltzen so far) are valued more highly by other clubs than we were paying them at WT. We're pawning the family jewels for one big New Zealand forward and a bunch of untried kids. Whose idea was this, and what's really behind it??

 

[magpiecol]

The Tiger's haven't been able to just give a payrise - they've had to secure our future by matching what other clubs are willing to pay for these blokes… it's entirely feasible that Teams with cap room are looking to pay $150k on a red hot prospect!

I can tell you no kid is or will be on $150k for this year or next and possibly the year after that.

If the current NRL players have been moved on because we are signing 3-4 big name players that makes sence but to say its because we are upgrading the kids is just a lie.

In your opinion. If you have proof that it is all a lie, please share. Otherwise admit that it is just your opinion.

 

[innsaneink]

It's good to hear something, but it still doesn't add up. Why did they resign Gibbs, Fulton and Fifita, then offer to release them only weeks later?

Sheens negotiated with penrith :laughing: knocked em back, wangled an extra year out of Humpty…this i believe was in between extending these players and then their new fresh course of action.

This still makes no sense. And, what if none of the 'free to test the market' players had found better offers at other clubs. The players had the option to stay, as Fulton has. Fifita was always going to be offered more that Wests pay him by somebody, but what of the others? What if they'd all just opted to stay? Where would that have left us?

They get the heighno treatment, "Youre off the bench next year" or worse, "Meet premier league coach Mr so & so". They would take a cut to obtain a new NRL gig, but as pointed out theyve been able to secure better deals so others clubs see the value, which only points to this all being cap mismanagement damage control

The other thing is that Sheens talks as though Woods and Groat have already been 'upgraded', but this new cap space money has only just become available. And, Blair's salary hasn't yet been agreed upon. Well, he hasn't signed anything.
>
It's also disquieting to realise that all these players (Gibbs, Fifita, Moltzen so far) are valued more highly by other clubs than we were paying them at WT. We're pawning the family jewels for one big New Zealand forward and a bunch of untried kids. Whose idea was this, and what's really behind it??

Sheens.
2003 all over again.....its nothing new, only difference is back then we couldnt spend the cap cause we didnt have the dosh, now we gotta look to smaller contacts coz we're way over, so the focus is back on juniors....look forward to 25% semis appearances because when you do the same thing over & over you usually get the same result.
If that means theres a premiership somewhere in the next 4 or 5 years....possibly?
We just can only wait & see.