Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Tim Sheens]

Note that Putin is an ex KGB/NKVD lieutenant colonel and that NO ONE can get to such a position without being vetted by the nomenclatura. So I would take everything that he says through that perspective. Also, it is highly suspicious that after his inauguration he did not go through any uncorrupted election process.
I read a lot of KGB/NKVD agitatsiya, and never forget that ex nomenclature took over the government, power and bought everything that was worth owning after collapse of the USSR!

So, my opinion is that among other reasons for the occupation of Ukraine, one is that Russian oligarch just want to possess more, and they charged Putin with the new task. Always check cui bono!

Money, money, money and with Putin the power is just as important. Some would argue that he is actually the richest individual on the planet, even if much of his wealth is thought to be tied up in a web of others.

The so called "Panama papers" and other investigations and/or data breaches of the Cayman islands are said to have shown ties, whilst London has long been called a laundromat for the booty, with a visa scheme that was only shut down just over a week ago a facilitator. Allegedly plenty more from China as well.

I would be seizing all the assets with suspected ties and start negotiations from that point, though I expect that a good few in government could be tainted above that of known donations are a main stumbling block.

 

[tig_prmz]

Yes, absobloodylutely!

If our closest much more populated and/or powerful neighbour attacked my country of Australia, I would expect that our allies would send troops as well as weapons. If not, what is the point of having alliances

As I wrote near the beginning this thread, I remember when Ukrainians agreed to give up their nuclear weapons with guarantees of protection, yet now they have been attacked by one of the signatory nations and let down by others.

Haha I think you agree with my point but not the overall argument. I DID NOT mean that allies should be going to Ukraine, if anything I meant that we should think again about sending weapons there!

I definitely think that sending troops there is wrong. I would not be supporting that whatsoever.

 

[Tim Sheens]

Haha I think you agree with my point but not the overall argument. I DID NOT mean that allies should be going to Ukraine, if anything I meant that we should think again about sending weapons there!

I definitely think that sending troops there is wrong. I would not be supporting that whatsoever.

I was stating a vehement YES to your questions, including that apart from sending in troops, the only way to make Russia back off (apart from also seizing assets) is to assist the Ukrainians with the provision of state of the art arms to prolong it.

We lost 28 of our fellow Australians amongst a plane load of innocent people to one of Putin's missiles when he first sent in forces to help annexe part of the country and has occupied it since. He is now threatening other neighbouring countries and even the spectre of nuclear attack.

Serious question to anyone advocating acquiescence to Putin and those alongside him. Which area and how much of Australia should we give up to a foreign invader without at least fighting for every inch of it and then holding our ground as the Ukrainians have now for nearly a decade?

 

[TrueTiger]

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it...so you dont agree there is corruption in Ukraine ....you dont agree that the Bidens,Polosis,Kerrys and Obama have a vested interest in Ukraine...eg Hunter Biden on the board of Burrisma with no knowledge of the industry only his daddy as VP of USA got him the job...you dont agree that NATO are trying to encrouch toward Russias border that Ukraine hasnt reviewed sinc 1999...
OK then you have your opinion and belittle me from your keyboard...

 

[TrueTiger]

I was stating a vehement YES to your questions, including that apart from sending in troops, the only way to make Russia back off (apart from also seizing assets) is to assist the Ukrainians with the provision of state of the art arms to prolong it.

We lost 28 of our fellow Australians amongst a plane load of innocent people to one of Putin's missiles when he first sent in forces to help annexe part of the country and has occupied it since. He is now threatening other neighbouring countries and even the spectre of nuclear attack.

Serious question to anyone advocating acquiescence to Putin and those alongside him. Which area and how much of Australia should we give up to a foreign invader without at least fighting for every inch of it and then holding our ground as the Ukrainians have now for nearly a decade?

I know you have solid arguements in your posts FG....have people forgotten how much Australian politicians have sold out to China without a whimper...The belt and road inniciative comes to mind that Scomo cancelled that Andrews sold out to...the mining industry,the meat and farming industries sold to China...You can all knock Putin for trying to free Ukraine which is still apart of Russia that he wants to free from the corruption within the state and let the people have freedom...and I dont support Putin in any way...but be realistic...the Govts we have had have sold out our country to foriegn powers under our very noses and not a whimper...
Glass houses come to mind...Turnbull signed us up to the New World Order without a refarendum...They sold half the Gold Coast to the Japanese in the 80s and the money went overseas...
you couldnt get a job at the Goldie in hospitality unless you spoke Japanese...and if you doubt me I have been in hospitality all my working life,I applied for a great job at the Gold Coast pub in early 1990s all great BUT got rejected for the position because I didnt speak Japanese....here in my own COUNTRY that I was born,raised and educated in ...go figure ...
And people want to get emotional over something that is occouring in the otherside of the world without the real facts of what is happening only fake media reports...
there is more happening there than we could possibly know ...let them sort it out....

 

[tig_prmz]

I was stating a vehement YES to your questions, including that apart from sending in troops, the only way to make Russia back off (apart from also seizing assets) is to assist the Ukrainians with the provision of state of the art arms to prolong it.

We lost 28 of our fellow Australians amongst a plane load of innocent people to one of Putin's missiles when he first sent in forces to help annexe part of the country and has occupied it since. He is now threatening other neighbouring countries and even the spectre of nuclear attack.

Serious question to anyone advocating acquiescence to Putin and those alongside him. Which area and how much of Australia should we give up to a foreign invader without at least fighting for every inch of it and then holding our ground as the Ukrainians have now for nearly a decade?

Mate I have very limited knowledge of it all so I can't comment. From a very broad and general view, all I can say is that allies sending troops is a sign of war. Not fighting isn't a sign of weakness. I am not very "nationalistic". Fighting over land just seems barbaric to me.

I don't know what the right answer is but fighting is the wrong one. You'll be losing soldiers and civialians on both sides. Russian soldiers aren't bad guys, they're just following orders

 

[Tim Sheens]

I know you have solid arguements in your posts FG....have people forgotten how much Australian politicians have sold out to China without a whimper...The belt and road inniciative comes to mind that Scomo cancelled that Andrews sold out to...the mining industry,the meat and farming industries sold to China...You can all knock Putin for trying to free Ukraine which is still apart of Russia that he wants to free from the corruption within the state and let the people have freedom...and I dont support Putin in any way...but be realistic...the Govts we have had have sold out our country to foriegn powers under our very noses and not a whimper...
Glass houses come to mind...Turnbull signed us up to the New World Order without a refarendum...They sold half the Gold Coast to the Japanese in the 80s and the money went overseas...
you couldnt get a job at the Goldie in hospitality unless you spoke Japanese...and if you doubt me I have been in hospitality all my working life,I applied for a great job at the Gold Coast pub in early 1990s all great BUT got rejected for the position because I didnt speak Japanese....here in my own COUNTRY that I was born,raised and educated in ...go figure ...
And people want to get emotional over something that is occouring in the otherside of the world without the real facts of what is happening only fake media reports...
there is more happening there than we could possibly know ...let them sort it out....

Don't disagree with a bit of that, but would discuss it elsewhere as this thread is about a current conflict in which Australia plays little part.

 

[Tiger5150]

Thats your opinion and your entitled to it...so you dont agree there is corruption in Ukraine ....you dont agree that the Bidens,Polosis,Kerrys and Obama have a vested interest in Ukraine...eg Hunter Biden on the board of Burrisma with no knowledge of the industry only his daddy as VP of USA got him the job...you dont agree that NATO are trying to encrouch toward Russias border that Ukraine hasnt reviewed sinc 1999...
OK then you have your opinion and belittle me from your keyboard...

Ukraine is terribly corrupt. The Burrisma dealings the tip of the iceberg. Ukraine treats foreign minorities like Russians and Hungarians disgracefully and violently. Ukraine is not a good nation despite its beautiful women......

and so what? That is justification for Putin to fire missiles into civilian cities and slaughter people? Plenty of corrupt countries around. I assume you know how these Russian oligarchs became insanely rich so quickly after communism?

 

[Tiger5150]

...You can all knock Putin for trying to free Ukraine which is still apart of Russia

Ummmm.........you may have just jumped the shark with that one. Most of the current Ukraine was NEVER part of Russia, it was Poland and Hungary prior to WW1. It has been a sovereign state for 30 years.

 

[Tiger5150]

Mate I have very limited knowledge of it all so I can't comment. From a very broad and general view, all I can say is that allies sending troops is a sign of war. Not fighting isn't a sign of weakness. I am not very "nationalistic". Fighting over land just seems barbaric to me.

Even your own land? The Ukrainians should invite Russia in?

I don't know what the right answer is but fighting is the wrong one. You'll be losing soldiers and civilians on both sides. Russian soldiers aren't bad guys, they're just following orders

Video of a friendly Russian soldier attempting to liberate an elderly Ukrainian and reduce corruption

 

[TrueTiger]

Ummmm.........you may have just jumped the shark with that one. Most of the current Ukraine was NEVER part of Russia, it was Poland and Hungary prior to WW1. It has been a sovereign state for 30 years.

Do your research mate...Ive never had a confrontation with you but check what I have just said...former USSR,new boundrys and new treatys ....

 

[Tiger5150]

The west openly wants to prolong the war to dictate the peace and in their mind hopefully take advantage of a say 10% chance to destabilize Russia and overthrow Putin .

The West are prolonging the war? You know what would shorten it? Not starting it.

After having sanctioned and virtually criminalized Russian leadership the Russians may decide to finish with this. Let's face it Ukraine's military and volunteers of all ages have put up a great fight but the Russians look like they are fighting a soft war. They have it in their power to cut off power, water, internet phone but haven't. Heavy weapons haven't been used in the main. They are fighting a war that suits Ukraine's military and are avoiding it seems casualties and wholesale destruction.

Im shocked the Ukrainian Goverment havent issued a press conference thanking Putin. Quite rude actually, ungrateful bastards.

But if the leadership is already sanctioned and demonisated they may feel they have little to loose and more to win by being brutal, and they have the conventional weapons to do so. They may even feel their relatively soft approach is encouraging volunteers and resistance.

Russia invaded Ukraine, a sovereign nation. End of story.

So a dangerous time for Ukrainians.

Ever since Russia invaded. Yes.

 

[Tiger5150]

Thoughtful post .....how come Putin has been in charge for over 20 years

Corruption, violence and subversion of the democratic process.

and most of the corruption by the oligarks you mention has been subverted...

Huh? The oligarchs are only wealthy BECAUSE of corruption. Its a kleptocracy and it continues unabated. It is the literal definition of their position.

all you here is how good Russia is since he has been in power and the people have more freedom than before...

Unless you are gay, muslim, want to protest peacefully or disagree with the government, or are one of 794000 modern slaves currently held in Russia (https://www.globalslaveryindex.org/2018/data/maps/#prevalence).

Other then that, free as a bird. Lovely place.

 

[TrueTiger]

Even your own land? The Ukrainians should invite Russia in?



Video of a friendly Russian soldier attempting to liberate an elderly Ukrainian and reduce corruption

Fake news ...it was a Ukraine transport and the "crises actors were called in ...the guy in the car could have climbed out with all the guys around him to help...instead they tried to cut the door off ,,hahah..pick the guy up and lift him out...
Heres another one for you ...

A reporter for CNN,by the name of Bernie Gores was "executed in Afganistan in 2019,our hearts go out to Bernie and his family...

Low and behold the "first American casualty of the Ukraine conflict is none other than Bernie Gores"our hearts go out to Bernie and his family...he was a respected CNN reporter....

could someone tell me how he could die in 2019 and then arise again to be killed in Ukraine...

wake up...dont believe all you hear and keep an open mind...their playing with peoples minds...

 

[Tiger5150]

Do your research mate...Ive never had a confrontation with you but check what I have just said...former USSR,new boundrys and new treatys ....

Is it your position that Ukraine has NOT been a sovereign state for 30 years?

I am well aware of the former USSR, my partner lived under their yoke.

 

[FinestTigers]

Russian-Ukrainian peace talks to begin today,
The negotiations in Belarus are meant for ending the Russian military operation.

 

[matchball]

This explains it without biased media propaganda. It's 30 mins long but a good education on the topic.

 

[Tiger5150]

Fake news ...it was a Ukraine transport and the "crises actors were called in ...the guy in the car could have climbed out with all the guys around him to help...instead they tried to cut the door off ,,hahah..pick the guy up and lift him out...

A Ukraine transport? Dig out the longer version of the video, the tank backs over the car again to finish the job......

Crisis actors? You keep chasing the white rabbit, Im done with you.

 

[Tiger5150]

I believe they were listed as the most corrupt nation in tbe world correct me if I'm wrong.

Couldnt be bothered looking it up. Lets assume they are, even more corrupt than Russia.....your point? Corruption should be addressed by full scale military action with missiles fired into civilian cities????? Righto

Regarding you accurate appraisal of their treatment of minorities just wondering if you think America would act to protect its citizens if they were persecuted as is occurring to Russians in Ukraine?

Did the US invade Iran? Did Hungary attack Ukraine? Or Romania?