Russian invasion of Ukraine

Kaito said:
@Tiger5150 I'm no economics expert, but dont be so naïve In your assumptions that the rest of europe will come out of this unscathed and that the US will help prop up markets, they cant ..
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I agree in the most part.

Trouble is from the minute that Putin violently invaded a sovereign country, the rest of the world had a decision to make. Would you like to pay in blood or Euro/USD$. Choose your payment method.

The whole of Europe (and the rest of the world) have ridden a wave of globalisation and suddenly understand the flip side of that. Germany, the most progressive nation in Europe if not the world, with a ruling party of Social Democrats (liberal Left) in coalition with the Greens, have have just allocated billions of Euros to increasing their own oil and coal production.

This is going to make world look away from Russia/China for the next 20 years. The Russian economy will take decades to recover. The rest of the West will take a hit, recover and take capital away from Russia.
 
Magpie_Magic said:
The west wants to look in control despite they being sidelined.
This business of their so called intelligence before the war advising the world that they new what the Russians are up to were just as deep as any knowledgeable person looking at the satellite pictures and working out their rough intentions .
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Im NOT a Biden fan by a long short, but the US tactics at that stage were clever and in part responsible for the fact that the invasion has not been smooth.

Russian hybrid warfare tactics involve creating a narrative that muddies the waters and creates moral ambiguity.

The Biden adminstration countered this by yelling from the rooftops at the earliest point that Putin was going to invade and likely create a red flag. THis removed the opportuntiy fro Putin to create a red flag and in the end Putin just had to bite the bullet and invade unprovoked which has in part led to the strong response from the West.


Magpie_Magic said:
Now that the Russians have altered their axis of advance the west comes out saying their advance looks confused, yeah confused to the west that is. But of course many in the West are privately scared of Russia so it's a good line the west can employ that hey they're not that good relax. And the sanctions will destroy them everything is under control.
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So............the Russians are sitting at the desk in Kiev & Kharkiv? Its all going well?

I cant get over the Putin apologists here.
 
Tiger5150 said:
Im NOT a Biden fan by a long short, but the US tactics at that stage were clever and in part responsible for the fact that the invasion has not been smooth.

Russian hybrid warfare tactics involve creating a narrative that muddies the waters and creates moral ambiguity.

The Biden adminstration countered this by yelling from the rooftops at the earliest point that Putin was going to invade and likely create a red flag. THis removed the opportuntiy fro Putin to create a red flag and in the end Putin just had to bite the bullet and invade unprovoked which has in part led to the strong response from the West.




So............the Russians are sitting at the desk in Kiev & Kharkiv? Its all going well?

I cant get over the Putin apologists here.
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I can't either. A couple of them have dropped off but still a couple remain. The suggestion that Russian demands are reasonable and that Ukraine is being bloody-minded is just obscene. Proponents of this view are poor excuses for human beings.
 
Always appreciate your input and posts @Magpie_Magic, are you an (ex)military man? You don't have to answer that if you don't like im just curious After reading your posts ..

Magpie_Magic said:
The west needed this war.
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Much to my amazement its the left/liberals that are salavating over a potential war- after just pulling out of a 2 decade old conflict costing 400,000 civilian lives in the fighting since 2001 (which is a modest estimate). Millions of people living in the war zones have also been displaced by war. But forget that, lets go again boys ...
 
Tiger5150 said:
I agree with you that Zelensky has not been a good President, he and his Govt are corrupt
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I don't understand this comment. Zelensky was the president who was put under pressure by Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon to investigate Joe Biden's son and he said no. If he is corrupt the level of corruption is far less than the US under Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon.

My point being that there are levels of corruption and Zelensky doesn't appear anywhere near as bad as other politicians including plenty in the west.

I don't have an answer to this situation. I basically agree with you that this is going to hurt Russia and Putin over time.
 
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Kaito said:
@Tiger5150 shirt fronting and forcing them to trade with india and china while still buying oil and gas from them doesnt help. West needs to face reality .. They dont care about stupid sanctions, coca-cola or belgian chocolates lol
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I think they do care about sanctions. I also thought countries were stopping buying oil from them.
 
So some friends went to leave Kiev the car was shot up the husband survive not a scratch on him but the wife died

And yesterday some of the in-laws had to go get food six days not out of the building had nothing to eat they left the 15 year old in the basement and did the run to Metro it's a large supermarket I sent them extra cash to buy extras it's quite nervous waiting for them to get home they got home safe

The other in-laws have left Kiev sick of the bombing the daughter had her 9 birthday and the cake was made out of dried biscuits and something like a can of dairy whip and a candle she told me when it's over her mum will buy her a birthday present so they are on a farm



It just Sh#T
 
Earl said:
None. Nothing. This is all about trying to expand Russia. It all feels very backwards doesn't it.
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correct, and under the same "justification" they used to occupy Chechnya, Georgia, Kazakhstan ....
In one word repossession of the territory they lost after split of the USSR.
 
Magpie_Magic said:
Let's look at some facts.

1) Russia has little debt, the default will be so western holders of this debt will loose.
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Initially. Good luck to Russia getting capital in the future and at what rate?

Magpie_Magic said:
2) Russia can access half it's reserves as they are in the country. That can sustain them for years longer than Europe and the world can accept being without Russian and Ukrainian food ,energy and resources and the inflation that will bring on the west which is a type of reverse sanction. This will bring recession to the west ,high interest rates, governments being toppled and perhaps unrest in western sponsored developing nations lighting fires.
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Rubbish, yes the contraction of the energy market will increase prices and increase inflation, but Russias inflation is already at 10%, official interest rates are 20%, currency at lowest point ever, no potential access to US currency. It is going to smash Russia a lot harder than the rest of the world.

Magpie_Magic said:
3) Putin is democratically elected. They don't have to pursue an identical democratic process as in the U.S. say.
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You are hilarious....
Magpie_Magic said:
5) Why is Ukraine fighting this American proxy war?

Before the war Russia wanted non NATO membership, recognition of Crimea. These Ukraine didn't have anyway and they will be permanently lost along with more. If they accepted the core Russian demands there would have been no invasion no casualties on either side no destruction and less to loose for Ukraine.
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Maybe because Ukraine is a sovereign nation that can make its own decisions about its own business. Is it your opinion that if Russia says it wants something from a separate sovereign nation, they should get it otherwise Russia can invade and start blowing stuff up?

Magpie_Magic said:
6) The west always new that the eastward expansion of NATO including Ukraine would destabilize Europe and provoke war (See post 677 on pg34) from their own experts. They also knew they wouldn't directly involve themselves for fear of WW3 with uncertain results and maybe more.

So why push it especially considering Ukraine would not be defended?
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Because the Eastern European nations were begging for it because they knew Russia would do exactly this?
 
Magpie_Magic said:
With respect to the sensitivities of the Ukrainians suffering.

Reading both western and other media including Russian and European over decades one discovers there is much slant, bias and propaganda from every side and much like business articles one has to read a tremendous amount to work out a rough average of truth. The western line is that this war is going poorly for Russia and the sanctions will destroy them. I wouldn't hold my breath. There are reasons for this narrative from the west and it doesn't help us in understanding the real situation.

The west wants to look in control despite they being sidelined.
This business of their so called intelligence before the war advising the world that they new what the Russians are up to were just as deep as any knowledgeable person looking at the satellite pictures and working out their rough intentions . Now that the Russians have altered their axis of advance the west comes out saying their advance looks confused, yeah confused to the west that is. But of course many in the West are privately scared of Russia so it's a good line the west can employ that hey they're not that good relax. And the sanctions will destroy them everything is under control.

As Biden said during the State of the union address.

"We will be alright. We Will be alright ".

I mean why repeat it twice, is he trying to convince us, himself or both.
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The Russians are getting smoked. You don't have to trust the media, there's plenty of firsthand battleground footage available to watch. I have lost count of the amount of videos I've seen of destroyed, captured or abandoned Russian tanks and equipment. You have these giant single file convoys that are stuck on roads and they are just repeatedly getting hammered by anti-tank missiles and drones. Every single day Russian air craft are getting shot down. Not saying Ukraine will drive the Russians back to Moscow any time soon, but they sure as hell don't seem capable of taking and holding Kyiv.
 
Considering the Govt just announced 15,000 places (additional to the already announced 8500 last year which included LEEs) for Afghan nationals under the Ref and Hum program over the next 4 years it will be interesting to see what transpires with the Ukrainian cohort. HSP and SETS providers have already got their hands full with Afghans, Syrians, Iraqis and now potentially Ukrainians. How much more can we pay for resettlement services like AMEP; ARC; ndis; HECS support etc?
 
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Magpie_Magic said:
All points deflected once again.
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Mate, I answered the points directly, unlike yourself.

Let me ask you the question I ask all Putin apologists......

What action was taken against Russia vindicates the full scale military invasion of a sovereign nation and bombing and firing missiles into civilians areas?
 
trentrunciman said:
Considering the Govt just announced 15,000 places (additional to the already announced 8500 last year which included LEEs) for Afghan nationals under the Ref and Hum program over the next 4 years it will be interesting to see what transpires with the Ukrainian cohort. HSP have already got their hands full with Afghans, Syrians, Iraqis and now potentially Ukrainians. How much more can we pay for resettlement services like AMEP; ARC; ndis; HECS support etc?
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My family and friends are giving me daily reports of what is going on in the neighbouring eastern euro nations which are being flooded with Ukrainian refugees. They are all wanting to go back as soon as they can. I dont think it will be like Afghaniis, Iraqis or Syrians. Ukrainians want to go back
 
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