We can pick out individual good team performances from our teams under all our coaches but none of them have overseen consistent team performances, and none of them have had a team good enough to play semi finals football. The rules of the game have changed since Cleary was at the club that expose the weaker teams further. Maguire's record is not good enough but that is largely impacted by the lack of quality of the squad compared to other teams. Can't pick one team this year that I can confidently say we should beat.
Michael Maguire leaves club
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Odessa
Well-known member
You should go watch Clearlys warriors videos I think there on YouTube when he is addressing the players in the video room about your role in the team and your responsibilities to the team good stuff
I tell you what the problem is....we had a ballcrushing cap issue thanks to Ivan...Madge had to do the best he could....we now have some experience and a heck of a lot of youth...the youth of today only do as much as they have to to earn the dollars and thats throughout many jobs in this life...once they mature and wake up to what they have to do it will be to late for Madge.....toughen up and realise the job you got in the toughest rugby league arena in the world....
BAGNF05
Well-known member
The Parra boys won up big on the TAB that day
This is true to an extent
- It seems "very" easy to forget (Or conveniently - Depends how you look at it)
He's had no money - Until this year,
Even this year - We're still paying Mbye.
Last year, It was Reynolds - Packer.... 1 Mill $$$ for absolutely no result.
That doesn't make it easy to sign players as a start...
Now, Consider this....
- Look at that combined with the available players you need,
- Then look the available players you need, that want to play here,
(For whatever reason - Location, Coach, Results all included)
- Then look at the available Players you need, That are interested in committing to the club, and water that down with being trumped by other clubs.
(For whatever reason - Location, Coach, Results and of course, Money all included)
There's a whole other competition worth of clubs (And super league to a degree) for Quality Players to consider outside ours - We all want the best players... But so do they.
He's signed all the players - Yes... But he has to sign someone!!
We've got 30 spots to fill....
And unfortunately, These blokes won't sign for a week at a time.
When you've got no money, Not a lot of quality players to sign at the right time, Not being very appealing results wise, We're not a glamour club or in a fantastic location (We've got no beaches or lifestyle to sell) AND there's 15 other clubs in competition for every player on the market.
I want results as much as anyone, And I'm not sympathetic to upper management or the coach or the Players or anyone...
I look at the reality of the situation....
We've needed a Fullback since 2017 - Tell me, Which of the top ones have been available - And what chance have we been of landing them - Realistically... ?? RTS, Munster, Turbo, Teddy - Who are we buying....
Same with the half back - If we want to trade up, Which ones of the marquee halves have been available? We had a good crack at Cleary and missed... Can't ask for much more than that. The Storm built Hughes, DCE Been signed up forever - No one decent ever leaves the Roosters.... We're dreaming - We really are....
We can sit here and blame anyone within the organisation that we like about the players we've signed - And the ones we've missed....
The simple fact is, If we could have got the ones we've tried to get - Could afford to get - And they wanted to play here - And we didn't get gazzumpt by one of the other 15 Clubs...
We wouldn't have signed the ones we have!!
- And in turn, To sign those ones...
We've probably had to pay a little more than other clubs would have... And spend the money allocated.
But again, They're available to us - Interested in playing for us - And we HAVE to sign someone for the position...
Not forgetting all of the above is done on a time limit...
It could be the Staffs fault, It could be as simple as Location, Money or Recent Results... I suggest it's definitely a combination of all - But least of all, I think it's the coach...
Signing Api and Papalii shows us that, Quality Players seen talking to the coach also suggest that to a point.
Funny - We get a little money and 2 quality signings follow.
I had a former player (For another club) Tell me that you don't know how far it is off the bottom of the ladder until you're there... You can't get the good players, You never get the rub of the green, Which means you don't get the results.
You pay too much for the players you can get and it goes around and around until you have a big win in locking up some juniors. - Or key signings that go to another level.
Like Parra got with Isiah last year - Got the back rower of the year for under 200k... To an already top 4 side - Big win...
He was barely a name before that.
It's a long road out - And our biggest mistake more recently, Is we've been trying to bandaid the real issue...
That seems to have been addressed more recently.
We spent a decade building quality juniors only to have them all pinched in the space of a couple years - Coupled that with a lack of focus on the next batch of juniors... We're in a spot.
We've got to stay strong, How does constantly barking for the heads of the ship captains make us any more appealing for any quality players... It doesn't- Never has - Never will.
I've heard Players at Newcastle say more than once - Even though we're struggling - They turn up, Week after week.
Get quality players, Get results - Get results, less pressure on the club and Coach.... Less pressure on the organisation leads to further improved results...
All of a sudden we're on a whole new Tangent, All of a sudden we've got more money - More money = Better Players - Better Players = Better Results...
Success builds success...
tig_prmz
Well-known member
This is a contentious topic. I don't think the coach gets the final say. In any amateur sports team that I have been a part of, there is an on-field ruling, the player is brought off before the coach even gets to know anything.
As for Sam or any other player who wants to stay on, these guys are mature adults who can look after themselves. All the medical team can do is tell them of the risks, the worst possible scenarior, best possible scenario and a rough % of what is likely to happen. For example, Dylan Edwards played close to two months on a broken foot last year, it would have been decided by the player and the medical team that he can continue, but they managed it by keeping him in a boot every other second that he wasn't on the field.
Ruling if a player can continue on-field (where diagnosis is sometimes hard) comes down to functional movement of the player. A player may be able to walk on it if it's a small harline fracture, but if it's a big one, functional assessment would rule them out anyway.
They're all grown adults, they can choose to do whatever they like. The exception is obviously concussion because no one knows the full risks, no one knows the %, everyone is just guessing. The other issue (to me at least) is the advertising of "he played with an injury". I don't think that should be marketed as "heroic".
BAGNF05
Well-known member
For a while there we would show up every other week. It felt like arrogance after a win. Now we just seem ordinary.
T
Tiger5150
Guest
Couldnt disagree with you more (respectfully). It was immediately obvious he had broken his cheekbone and he said he had trouble with vision. Everyone knew. Ridiculous comparison with a broken foot. Another serious hit in the same place could have caused him to go blind or actually worse.
The accidental try celebration knock that ‘helped’ Sam Burgess play on with a broken cheekbone in 2014 Grand Final
Burgess reveals the accidental second knock that ‘helped’ him see out 2014 GF
www.foxsports.com.au
I also strongly disagree that you would leave a decision to play on with such a bad injury, with such a high risk of serious long term repurcussions, with a footballwho has just suffered a bad head knock. You have team doctors etc and ultimately the coach has that duty of care.
The doctor knew and told Burgess at half time that he could lose his eye. Disgraceful leaving that decision with a footballer full of adrenaline and probably concussed. In particular the Doctor should have said he is not playing and if Maguire cared for his players as much as he says he does, he would have stopped him. Winning a football game isnt worth that.
I think what Burgess did is incredibly brave and tough. I also think it was incredibly stupid and dangerous and disgraceful behaviour from the Souths club, in particular the doctor and Madge.
Burgess reveals how he nearly lost his eye
How even blowing his nose could've proved costly
wwos.nine.com.au
Last edited by a moderator:
tony soprano
Well-known member
Why is sheens so keen to point out he is not involved with coaching.
Do you reckon he'd prefer coaching to his current role?
He's never said he doesn't want to coach.
Do you reckon he'd prefer coaching to his current role?
He's never said he doesn't want to coach.
tony soprano
Well-known member
Couldnt disagree with you more (respectfully). It was immediately obvious he had broken his cheekbone and he said he had trouble with vision. Everyone knew. Ridiculous comparison with a broken foot. Another serious hit in the same place could have caused him to go blind or actually worse.
The accidental try celebration knock that ‘helped’ Sam Burgess play on with a broken cheekbone in 2014 Grand Final
Burgess reveals the accidental second knock that ‘helped’ him see out 2014 GF
I also strongly disagree that you would leave a decision to play on with such a bad injury, with such a high risk of serious long term repurcussions, with a footballwho has just suffered a bad head knock. You have team doctors etc and ultimately the coach has that duty of care.
The doctor knew and told Burgess at half time that he could lose his eye. Disgraceful leaving that decision with a footballer full of adrenaline and probably concussed. In particular the Doctor should have said he is not playing and if Maguire cared for his players as much as he says he does, he would have stopped him. Winning a football game isnt worth that.
I think what Burgess did is incredibly brave and tough. I also think it was incredibly stupid and dangerous and disgraceful behaviour from the Souths club, in particular the doctor and Madge.
Burgess reveals how he nearly lost his eye
How even blowing his nose could've proved costly
He wouldn't play on these days, but valandys changes rules like undies.
T
Tiger5150
Guest
It shouldnt be his decision, then or now. Ive always thought that was disgraceful by Madge and the Dr
tony soprano
Well-known member
Fair call
tig_prmz
Well-known member
If you put the onus on the medical staff, they will ALWAYS cover their asses and take off people then you will find commentators and punters complaining that the game has gone soft. Someone with a corked thigh, I would take them off just in case there is a small fracture, just in case he gets myositis ossification because of mismanagement. You cannot put the onus on medical staff. What happens when players starting lying about their symptoms?Couldnt disagree with you more (respectfully). It was immediately obvious he had broken his cheekbone and he said he had trouble with vision. Everyone knew. Ridiculous comparison with a broken foot. Another serious hit in the same place could have caused him to go blind or actually worse.
The accidental try celebration knock that ‘helped’ Sam Burgess play on with a broken cheekbone in 2014 Grand Final
Burgess reveals the accidental second knock that ‘helped’ him see out 2014 GF
I also strongly disagree that you would leave a decision to play on with such a bad injury, with such a high risk of serious long term repurcussions, with a footballwho has just suffered a bad head knock. You have team doctors etc and ultimately the coach has that duty of care.
The final decision is always on the player, the medical team can only give a very strong suggestion. I can't imagine Eddie Farah dragging Burgess off.
I have no issues with Burgess staying on, my issue is with advertising and marketing it as "heroic." I have no issues with Cronk playing with a scapula fracture, they all knew the risks- I just hate the article that Dr Ibrahim posted regarding it, because now a fracture has become a grey area when it shouldn't be.
Eternal Tiger
Well-known member
Kent can't have it both ways. "The players have let Madge down, Roberts is not a Madge type player"
Idiot, Madge signed him and Joey. A lot of the criticism of Madge is that he's too hard on the players, but Slothfield thinks they need tough love by Flanagan or Green.
Moronic crap being peddled as journalism.
Idiot, Madge signed him and Joey. A lot of the criticism of Madge is that he's too hard on the players, but Slothfield thinks they need tough love by Flanagan or Green.
Moronic crap being peddled as journalism.
T
Tiger5150
Guest
I get your point about medical staff covering their asses but its irrelevant. There is no way you can leave a decision that may threaten the players sight or even life to a meathead full of adrenaline and concussed. That is madness.
Take your point to the next level. That Doctor told Burgess, "If you keep playing, you could lose your eye". Ok fair enough Burgess is thinking, "Im tough, its a GF, I can do it.....". That doctor would also have said to Maguire that Burgess could lose his eye.
The coach always has the decision if an injured player plays on, not the player, if for no other reason than it could affect his performance and the result. Michael Maguire was told by the doctor that if Burgess plays on, he could lose an eye. Maguire considered it and said "Nah, we need to win....on you go." Disgusting and disgraceful IMO. Whenever Madge say she cares for the players I think of this.
watersider
Well-known member
Maybe it's unrealistic and overrates the role of coaching, but with a fair few players gone now and quite a few new faces (Laurie, Maumalo, Roberts, Hastings, Stefano, Peachey, Leiulua...etc) I'd hope the coach would be able to improve the players, whether they are a particularly good squad or not.
I think Madge means well and has obviously been successful with souths, and hasn't had the best of circumstances with us, but the players he has bought haven't gotten better, and this is despite the fact they all claim he's been great for them.
So I just think his time is done. Maybe we wait until the end of the season because it doesn't really help the next coach to sack him now, but it just doesn't look like things are going to improve under Madge.
I think Madge means well and has obviously been successful with souths, and hasn't had the best of circumstances with us, but the players he has bought haven't gotten better, and this is despite the fact they all claim he's been great for them.
So I just think his time is done. Maybe we wait until the end of the season because it doesn't really help the next coach to sack him now, but it just doesn't look like things are going to improve under Madge.
tig_prmz
Well-known member
Concussed is different, it can easily be argued that the player is unfit to make his own decision, like an U16s boys/girls team. The medical team makes the final decision/s with them.
As for the part about Madge. I'm not sure if you've seen someone with a facial fracture, I have seen a couple but not too many. They don't just say ouch, they're screaming in pain. They need to be given very strong painkillers straight away, probably sedated. The coach cannot get involved in this process. Even if they knew it was a fracture, if Burgess wasn't displaying very painful symptoms, it becomes a grey area. If it was a 16 or 18yo kid, you don't ask them, you take them off. A 30yo grown man, you let them make their own decision. I don't see why a coach would get involved in this process, certainly not Madge who never even directly spoke to Sam or had any contact with him probably til halftime.
T
Tiger5150
Guest
He was told flat out, by an actual medical doctor that he had broken his cheekbone, that he could lose and eye and simply blowing his nose could prove costly........Maguire was told by a Doctor that his player could lose an eye if he plays on. Madge said....no worries. Disgraceful. You dont see why a coach when told his player could lose an eye if he plays on, would get involved? I do.
TigerNeddyK
Well-known member
Cool, Tigers need a modern coach , Flanno is that , I couldn’t care less that Rothfield likes him, ,maybe it might even get us some decent press and entice a couple of players to have a look our way… I don’t care anymore, if we have to go along to get along then we have to do it … these Kent and Gould types that keep saying it ain’t Madge’s fault that we do not play as a team, run backwards and Sideways in defence, and are unable to draw and pass or put on a basic attacking move are not sincerely concerned about the best interests of the Wests Tigers. Kent and Gould love us being an easy beat basket case. Kent gets to write his clickbait tigers are. Shambles articles and Goukd gets 2 easy wins over us for his own club each season. The coach is supposed to get 13 players to play as a team and we have not done that since Madge arrived… we need a coach that can bring this club together, even if it’s an us v the world seige mentality .. Flanagan can do that , he loves league, is a first rate league mind and he loves success… Please sign himWests Tigers, it’s time for a change!
BAGNF05
Well-known member
He did mention Pascoe last night briefly. He’s the mainstay at the club and was in cahoots with chins dad
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