SMH investigation Part 2

@mike said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462588) said:
No investigation whatsoever, just an opinion piece.

It's more of a piece of fringe WT fans and rest of the NRL. We know everything as we have followed the club and all the articles published for last 10 or more years.

I quite like the article as I don't think it's based on ONLY opinion at all.. some facts may need to be checked but overall impression it makes is that we have been awful behind the scenes and we are again at a crossroad. There are positives in the future as mentioned at the end of the article but the decisions we make in the next 6 months are crucial for at least the last 3 or so year.
 
Can anyone explain the point between Luke Brooks and Michael Maguire.
I just can’t understand that you would appoint someone a captain of a team if you didn’t have respect for them.
I tend to believe Madge is the first coach that has made life a little uncomfortable for Brooks and instead of pandering to popular opinion and giving him less voice in the side. He has made him more empowered to find his voice in the side.
Seeing the competitor Brooks is, I’d say this has actually improved him as a footballer and a leader.
 
@mikey said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462350) said:
There are many other clubs not performing but they rarely get the constant blowtorch like we do.

We are a huge brand. That’s why the focus and the continual media.
 
@gcfan said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462635) said:
@mikey said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462350) said:
There are many other clubs not performing but they rarely get the constant blowtorch like we do.

We are a huge brand. That’s why the focus and the continual media.

The media organisations have admitted we get the attention because we generate the clicks.
 
@needaname said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462633) said:
Can anyone explain the point between Luke Brooks and Michael Maguire.
I just can’t understand that you would appoint someone a captain of a team if you didn’t have respect for them.
I tend to believe Madge is the first coach that has made life a little uncomfortable for Brooks and instead of pandering to popular opinion and giving him less voice in the side. He has made him more empowered to find his voice in the side.
Seeing the competitor Brooks is, I’d say this has actually improved him as a footballer and a leader.

Cleary had Brooks performing allowing him to play to his strengths.
 
@yossarian said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462603) said:
Another SMH article on how awful we are. Chammas has a weird obsession with us. Arguably Brisbane are a bigger team than us and in a worse condition.

Think someone said there might be something between him and madge hopefully madge has called him a parasite
 
@pawsandclaws1 said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462641) said:
@needaname said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462633) said:
Can anyone explain the point between Luke Brooks and Michael Maguire.
I just can’t understand that you would appoint someone a captain of a team if you didn’t have respect for them.
I tend to believe Madge is the first coach that has made life a little uncomfortable for Brooks and instead of pandering to popular opinion and giving him less voice in the side. He has made him more empowered to find his voice in the side.
Seeing the competitor Brooks is, I’d say this has actually improved him as a footballer and a leader.

Cleary had Brooks performing allowing him to play to his strengths.

Brooks has never been able to control a game for 80 minutes
 
@tony-soprano said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462645) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462641) said:
@needaname said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462633) said:
Can anyone explain the point between Luke Brooks and Michael Maguire.
I just can’t understand that you would appoint someone a captain of a team if you didn’t have respect for them.
I tend to believe Madge is the first coach that has made life a little uncomfortable for Brooks and instead of pandering to popular opinion and giving him less voice in the side. He has made him more empowered to find his voice in the side.
Seeing the competitor Brooks is, I’d say this has actually improved him as a footballer and a leader.

Cleary had Brooks performing allowing him to play to his strengths.

Brooks has never been able to control a game for 80 minutes

Not even for 5. Not his shtick.
 
@tony-soprano said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462645) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462641) said:
@needaname said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462633) said:
Can anyone explain the point between Luke Brooks and Michael Maguire.
I just can’t understand that you would appoint someone a captain of a team if you didn’t have respect for them.
I tend to believe Madge is the first coach that has made life a little uncomfortable for Brooks and instead of pandering to popular opinion and giving him less voice in the side. He has made him more empowered to find his voice in the side.
Seeing the competitor Brooks is, I’d say this has actually improved him as a footballer and a leader.

Cleary had Brooks performing allowing him to play to his strengths.

Brooks has never been able to control a game for 80 minutes

Perhaps Cleary understood this and allowed him to be the player that his has always been. Then again, Cleary is a very good coach.
 
@innsaneink said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462595) said:
@jedi_tiger said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462545) said:
@snake said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462446) said:
@tigerwould said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462346) said:
Question marks over why the Tigers don’t base themselves in the fast-growing south-west Sydney region talk to an identity issue.

With Wests Ashfield in control, there are those from the Campbelltown side of the club who believe the south-west is neglected due to geographical ties to the inner-west.

A 2016 Gemba report found Concord Oval was the more strategic and financially sound option over Carnes Hill, Campbelltown and Leichhardt.

The club is also in the process of setting up an academy in the south-west to maximise the pathway system being set up by Hartigan, Sheens and new staffers Brett Kimmorley and former Cricket Australia coaching and development manager Matt Betsey.

The Tigers have also managed to turn multimillion-dollar annual losses, where they once required a loan from the NRL, into profits over the last couple of years. That has been boosted by a 90 per cent increase in membership from 2016 to 2021.

“Everything there is in place for us to have success on the field,” Farah says of the work Pascoe and his staff have done in recent years.

“I can genuinely say that it is chalk and cheese from where we were five or six years ago to where we are now. It’s a totally different club to be around.”

The club’s 10-year deal with Venues NSW, in which it has been required to play four games a year at Stadium Australia or Bankwest Stadium, expires at the end of next season.

The club acknowledges its future lies in the south-west, with the NRL in dialogue with the NSW government over a new stadium in Liverpool to be shared between the Tigers and Bulldogs. The other option is Campbelltown.

“Speaking for myself, as to the options presented for a stadium, there is much to be said for Campbelltown, which would solidify a presence of the Wests Tigers all the way from the inner-west to the south-west,” Hagipantelis says.

“At their best and in their prime, they will compete with any of the big clubs across the entire premiership,” former NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg says.

“They have untapped potential. If they can realise that potential, it would be a huge boost for them and the sport. They will become one of the biggest clubs in the country. They are the sleeping giants.”


The Chairman now says the Home ground should be at Campbelltown.. good luck with all of that ! I am sure the 90% of memberships will come from Campbelltown!

they shoukd think long and hard at memberships before the club moves home games to campbletown
I've been a member since we started at wests tigersthey can shove it if that happens

A few Lost memberships won't worry them....
It's been happening a bit lately...
All good...amazing some prefer 4 or 5 home grounds to one... Each to their own

they know where the members are from so we will see I guess
 
@tony-soprano said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462645) said:
@pawsandclaws1 said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462641) said:
@needaname said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462633) said:
Can anyone explain the point between Luke Brooks and Michael Maguire.
I just can’t understand that you would appoint someone a captain of a team if you didn’t have respect for them.
I tend to believe Madge is the first coach that has made life a little uncomfortable for Brooks and instead of pandering to popular opinion and giving him less voice in the side. He has made him more empowered to find his voice in the side.
Seeing the competitor Brooks is, I’d say this has actually improved him as a footballer and a leader.

Cleary had Brooks performing allowing him to play to his strengths.

Brooks has never been able to control a game for 80 minutes

Ok I understand that criticism but how often has he been left on his own to do so? So what your all saying is you’d prefer to keep a HALFback whose strength is to chime into a game whenever he feels like and appoint a caretaker 5/8 to do that job for the Halfback? And in doing so you also what to appoint a coach that accepts this reality?

I’d prefer to see my HALFback learn to own a game and I commend a coach for persisting with this.

Aside from that thanks for the responses. It doesn’t get to the root of my question as to what is the actual problem that is whispered between the two.
Unless of course Brooks is unhappy that his being put in a position to lead a team and would prefer a coach that has him less involved.
 
Kane Evans is an absolute idiot too. He throws punches like a cat too 😂 did the same against chambers
 
@jc99 said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462688) said:
Kane Evans is an absolute idiot too. He throws punches like a cat too 😂 did the same against chambers

I’m sure that will be the topic of Chammas next investigation
 
@tigerwest said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462413) said:
@nt_tiger said in [SMH investigation Part 2](/post/1462392) said:
I'm on the fence regards Maguire.
I am concerned about his relationship with players and my impression that he has a stereotype in mind for the different positions. The article mentions his flip-flopping over the performance/retention of Seyfarth and Chee-Kam.
He talks about having players that are committed and resilient and yet dropped Thompson and Momirovski. I regarded those as poor choices at the time (the growth stage of the team) they were made.
Any wonder that players feel they are 'walking on eggshells'?
It also mentions his distancing himself from performances by referring to the team as 'they' rather than 'we'.
I'm not happy with how I perceive Maguires relationship with the squad to be.

The article mentions these things, but are they true? Who, bar people with an axe to grind mentions this?

That is a fair observation. I'm also aware that some players seem to strongly support Maguire and his methods.
My impression is just that, a growing unease with Maguire based on snippets over the time he has been here. For a long while I was a supporter of Maguire but my level of support is diminishing.
 

Here’s a long WTs read for a wet Saturday, this is Following on the last years review…from the SMH.


Inside the Wests Tigers review: The 6 key takeouts that have changed Maguire​

The Wests Tigers last year conducted an end-of-season review which culminated in the club backing coach Michael Maguire to turn the club’s fortunes around.

The Herald spoke to several key figures at the club to find out the major takeaways from the review and how things have changed at Tiger Town in 2022.


  • REVIEW FINDING #1: CONSTANT CHANGING OF DEFENSIVE STRUCTURE
One of the most obvious concerns from last season was the feeble defence of the football team.

The players raised concerns about a lack of consistency in direction when it came to the blueprint to shut down the opposition.

There was a feeling internally that there wasn’t a defined “Wests Tigers” structure because the systems would change from week to week.

The review found that players were confused about what to do in different situations on the field, feelings that were exacerbated by video sessions that would often contradict the previous sessions.

A lot was made between the erosion of the relationship between Maguire and certain individuals at the club.

At the heart of the tension was a view from the club’s powerbrokers that defensive coach Wayne Collins would need to be moved on at the end of the season.

Maguire fought strongly to keep his offsider but it was made clear to him by the club when he fronted the football committee to save his job that there would be a number of changes he would have to agree to if he was to continue as coach.

Maguire has since embraced those changes and appears to have made a positive impact on the team. The introduction of former Sydney Roosters assistant coach Nathan Cayless as defence coach has led to a significant improvement in defence, despite the one win from six games to open the season.

After six rounds last season, with an identical 1-5 win record, the Tigers had conceded 178 points (29.7 points per game). This year the Tigers have only conceded 126 points (21 points per game).
D4F4115A-7CBE-4968-9445-DA4E4DF40066.jpeg

“We definitely weren’t too proud of our defensive record last season but this year we’ve brought in Nathan Cayless and he’s done a tremendous job alongside Madge,” forward Alex Twal said.

“I think even though we haven’t had too many results go our way at the start of the season, I do feel like we’ve built a lot in the defence department and I feel like the boys reaped a lot of rewards on the weekend.

“We’ll continue to build on that. I think we’ve come a long way defensively but I think we’ve got a long way to go.”

There’s a notable difference in the way the team defends this year. On several occasions last year, most notably against South Sydney at Leichhardt Oval in round 16, the Tigers’ edge defenders were either guilty of back-pedalling or not being on the same page, which left them as sitting ducks for the Rabbitohs to pick off.



Nathan Cayless has brought in this defensive structure that everyone has bought into,” halfback Jock Madden said. “You can see it’s working on the field. He really nailed it down in pre-season. It’s showing on the paddock now.”

  • REVIEW FINDING #2: LACK OF DELEGATION TO COACHING STAFF
Another issue that was raised in the end-of-season review led by CEO Justin Pascoe was a concern around Maguire’s reluctance to delegate.

While the review confirmed what is widely known - that Maguire’s commitment and work ethic is second to none - there was a view that he was shouldering too much of the workload and responsibility


The Wests Tigers wanted the people around Maguire to have a voice and the ability to challenge the coach on decisions after growing concerned that those close to him were too afraid to speak up against him.

The club wanted Maguire’s offsiders to be encouraged, not discouraged, to have robust conversations in the belief that frank exchanges of ideas ultimately lead to the improvement of the football team.
The club moved on Maguire’s two assistants, Shane Millard and Wayne Collins, replacing them with his Kiwi Test assistants, Cayless and Ben Gardiner.

It has been noted by some inside the club’s inner sanctum that Cayless and Maguire have clashed on a number of occasions, a development that is deemed an important part of the development of the football team.

The players have noticed a significant shift in Maguire’s approach to coaching as he has allowed his assistants to take control at various stages.

“He’s taken a step back [in terms of] running meetings,” lock Joe Ofahengaue said of Maguire.

“He lets Nathan Cayless and Gardiner [attack coach Ben Gardiner] run the meetings because they are so good at what they do. He steps in whenever he feels like he needs to but he can get us up for games and that’s what I love about him.”
 
  • REVIEW FINDING #3: INABILITY TO ATTRACT BIG NAMES AND IMPROVE SENIOR PLAYERS
The Wests Tigers didn’t need a review to discover the club’s shortcomings in the recruitment market.

It’s been well documented how often they have struck out under Maguire when it comes to landing the big fish, but the arrival of Tim Sheens added significant pulling power to the club.

The signature of Jackson Hastings has so far proven to be hugely beneficial for the Wests Tigers, picked up from the Super League on a relatively cheap deal looking for one last chance in the NRL.
While the signing of Parramatta backrower Isaiah Papali’i was all but done under the watch of former general manager Adam Hartigan, Sheens and Maguire combined to pull off the acquisition of Panthers premiership-winning hooker Api Koroisau for 2023 and beyond.

The club found that it had no issues recruiting good young players over the years but they have lacked the financial backing to retain them when the big clubs come knocking.

The club has recently agreed to significantly boost the funding of its juniors to ensure they not only attract the best talent, but keep them. Having club legend Benji Marshall helping develop the young players has added to the appeal of the program.

That has also been reflected in the appointments of Matt Betsy and Brett Kimmorley, who have overseen the overhaul of the club’s pathways system in the past 12 months.

The other concern that was raised from some of the senior players in the review was a belief that they weren’t improving as individuals. That case is obvious with halfback Luke Brooks.
The club believes it contributed to senior players at rivals clubs baulking at the prospect of playing under Maguire, which ultimately pushed the club down the path to target youth.

The review found that some of the younger players weren’t having the same issues as the senior players, given the development of Stefano Utoikamanu, Jake Simpkin and Daine Laurie over the past 12 months.


  • REVIEW FINDING #4: NEED TO ESTABLISH A WESTS TIGERS CULTURE
Sheens has been quite vocal in trying to get the Tigers to buy into the All Blacks culture, which places a huge emphasis on respect for the entire organisation.

Whether it be cleaning up the dressing rooms after the players are done, turning up to home games in suits or placing an emphasis on discipline and punctuality at training, Sheens is driving a set of standards he wants implemented from the NRL right down to Harold Matthews

It’s not only a certain culture that the club wants implemented across the board. There are now systems in place to have the whole of club working towards a “Wests Tigers” brand of football.

Similar systems are in place at clubs like Penrith and the Roosters so that young players can easily transition into first grade.


  • REVIEW FINDING #5: INCONSISTENCY IN ATTACKING PLANS AND TEAM CHANGES
While there has been a notable improvement in the team’s defence, the same can’t be said about the attack so far in 2022.

When comparing the first six rounds of last season to this season, a highlight is that the defence has improved significantly. The attack, though, based on points scored per game, has regressed.

The Tigers’ attack is better than only one other team in the NRL, the Bulldogs, scoring 68 points in six games to open the year. Last year they managed 108 points in the same period.

One of the talking points out of last year’s review was to do with confusion as to why the Tigers trained the whole preseason with a certain attacking structure to adapt to the new rules, only to throw it out the window after the first month.

The constant changing of players in and out of first grade was also raised as a problem, which Maguire appears to have addressed. The majority of changes over the first six weeks have been forced due to injury and suspension.

However, after five rounds without success, Maguire did decide to make a number of key changes for the game against the Parramatta Eels last week, resulting in the Tigers’ first win of the season.
The club will be hoping that handing the keys of the castle to Hastings will release the shackles from Brooks and finally deliver a halves pairing capable of leading the team to finals football.
  • REVIEW FINDING #6: MIXED MESSAGING AND COMMUNICATION
There were concerns raised in the review around the messaging from the coaching staff and management to the players.
It wasn’t purely regarding game plans and strategies but also concerned contracts and negotiations.

There were also concerns raised about the terminology and messaging coming out of press conferences, with the feeling being the club was not portraying a united front.

Certain players also expressed frustration that Maguire, who they believed was enamoured with Sam Burgess and Greg Inglis, continually referenced his past achievements at South Sydney and Wigan.
Maguire has won two premierships in two different competitions and has seen first hand what it takes to achieve success.
 
This topic has blown up our servers.
Tigerwould, maybe you could give a short summation to what's been written so far because for us simple folk, it's all a bit too much to soak in 🤪
 
This topic has blown up our servers.
Tigerwould, maybe you could give a short summation to what's been written so far because for us simple folk, it's all a bit too much to soak in 🤪
We sucked.. we still suck ,,just a little bit less sucky..
 
Back
Top