Wests Tigers Coaches

[old_man_tiger]

Sheens was about to turn 2 in 1952 when Wests last the comp, and was almost 19 in 1969 when Balmain won. He is older than some of our young players grandparents.

Age in itself doesn't bother me, but his recent record (10 years of evidence) combined with his age creates a real issue. Research shows that mature pros that succeed get good results through leveraging experience. All of Tim's recent experience is leading losing sides. He has started here in the same dodgy way he left.

I've supported all our coaches when they start, will be the same this time, but I do it with no confidence and a fair dose of resentment. Watching origin last night was the 3rd game of footy I enjoyed all year, why will people like me keep bothering with this shit?

 

[diedpretty]

Fair to say the "noise" coming around this is majorly from the Eels side, hence the counter article in the SMH yesterday after Riccio broke the news.
Isaiah's concerns are genuine & he has spoken to the club but he has not requested a release nor has their been any approach by his management.
The club is confident they have smoothed everything over & once the formal announcement of Sheens as coach is made it should all blow over.

It was pretty obvious that it was parra stirring the pot. Why doesn't the club put in a formal complaint to NRL as the eels agenda is skating pretty close to contract tampering. And there is no doubt they will keep pushing this agenda unless they are pulled in to line.

 

[tigertragic]

Yep the good old days when two 800K players left at HT. One because it was cold the other because his woman was fake pregnant. Thanks Justin 👍

Both absolutely failed Cleary signings 🙄

 

[jadtiger]

Maybe. For some reason you hated Madge. Maybe he didn't suit your style. You also seem to like Clearly.

My take is though Madge has built a good groundwork for the future. The junior development and pathways all happened with Madge as head coach. I've already stated I talked to a gun junior and he told me Madge had spoken to him. That was the first thing he said when I told him I was a Tigers fan.

Cleary stuffed our cap and bought dud players for marquee dollars in an attempt to get short term success but which stuffed us longer term.

Madge walked into a mess and I think he has left us in a good position.

The thing is right now we are at a critical time. We have cap space. We have 4 halves that we need to pick and pay for the next couple of years at least or go to market.

I hope Sheens can make the right decisions going forward but he has a history of making the wrong decisions. I've supported the club for years and I've seen some bad coaches. Alan Jones, Lamb, Cleary and Taylor were all terrible coaches. Sheens had his moments but he had left a mess. Cleary got his team performing to a low level (he didn't make the finals) and left as big a mess as Sheens did.

I understand Madge was always in trouble due to the results we've had which were poor. I just can't view him as one of our dud coaches.

Well said Earl, that sums up my position perfectly

 

[pawsandclaws1]

I understand your dislike for Sheens, it shines through. What I can't fathom is your failure to realise Maguire, by all reports a nice guy, was never a good fit for WTs. Why is that?

 

[diedpretty]

I honestly think that was the right way to handle the situation. It would be unethical to be looking to sign someone prior to sacking the current coach.

Let's see how we go but my main concern is no dud short term signings ala Cleary. I would have retained Madge solely because he didn't do this.

I reckon Sheens is in a great position. A cap that is fine, some decent players signed for next year, some decent juniors coming through and we are currently dead last.

I agree - Sheens is not an idiot. He would only take on the role if he believed the club was finally on the right track. Benji has said that Sheens sees the group of juniors coming through as better than those of the 05 era.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Maybe. For some reason you hated Madge. Maybe he didn't suit your style. You also seem to like Clearly.

My take is though Madge has built a good groundwork for the future. The junior development and pathways all happened with Madge as head coach. I've already stated I talked to a gun junior and he told me Madge had spoken to him. That was the first thing he said when I told him I was a Tigers fan.

Cleary stuffed our cap and bought dud players for marquee dollars in an attempt to get short term success but which stuffed us longer term.

Madge walked into a mess and I think he has left us in a good position.

The thing is right now we are at a critical time. We have cap space. We have 4 halves that we need to pick and pay for the next couple of years at least or go to market.

I hope Sheens can make the right decisions going forward but he has a history of making the wrong decisions. I've supported the club for years and I've seen some bad coaches. Alan Jones, Lamb, Cleary and Taylor were all terrible coaches. Sheens had his moments but he had left a mess. Cleary got his team performing to a low level (he didn't make the finals) and left as big a mess as Sheens did.

I understand Madge was always in trouble due to the results we've had which were poor. I just can't view him as one of our dud coaches.

Madge was never imo a good fit for WTs. Why did you not see this?

 

[Telltails]

Blind faith in any coach to have the answers for a weak roster is setting them all up to fail no matter who they are.
The arguments about which coach is more suitable than the other are futile when they have all failed for the same reason - other teams have better squads.
We are running last for a reason and it's not the coach. Some of the players who are "speculatively" on marquee money were on display last night compare that quality to our current squad some who are on similar money and there lies the problem.

 

[diedpretty]

I expect the press to have some fun with this referencing back to how Sheens believed he was sacked the first time at the club to be setting himself up beside them again. Whether you support the decision you can't ignore the irony.

I seem to think there is a current high flying club who sacked a coach and then re hired him a few years later.

 

[Cultured_Bogan]

Good for you. I guess now you can get back to being in the prone position in front of your statue of Madge praying for his return.

No one is "praying for his return," that's a fiction of your creation. He had poor results and the club moved on it which is fair enough. The way in which they did it (i.e. if they were prepared to sack him now, why did they not do it at the beginning of 2022, and why was it so reactive,) has question marks over it but other than that the results had not materialised.

It's fair criticism to assess Sheens since his time last at the helm for WT and be concerned. He didn't turn Hull KR or Salford into powerhouses in England despite his ability and past achievements as a coach. It suggests that he may be past it as a head coach.

While I concede he is a better outcome than employing the likes of Ciraldo, Brown or Barrett as they are completely untested or failures, it is not a better option than Morris, Flanagan or even someone like Henry, Toovey or Green.

This all being said, if he works his magic here again, he will get the credit he deserves. But it is completely understandable that fans are pensive about this move by the club.

 

[liltiger]

If sheens takes the role for 2 years only then possibly he figures it'll be about 3 years before the talent starts to shine of our younger players, maybe he just figures his age means his coaching career is over so a 2 year stint copping the barbs of the fans and media while the team try to bring on the youth even if we win 2 spoons in the process wont affect him. Before handing the job over while it looks more attractive for someone else to take over.

 

[finnzo]

It’s happening sheens will be coach just get on board with what’s the point in complaining? There not gonna change the decision

We are supporters of the club after all so let’s support this decision

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Both Pole and Matamua look talents sure. But have you seen anything other than Pole running hard and tackling like we would of hope Mikalee would do?
And in Matamua have you seen anything other than the same and including offering the same but more effective passing game that we lacked when Twal couldn’t play that way and Joffa had attempted to since the start of the year.
To say that they are currently playing more suitable to their skill set is laughable.
The only flat out difference between now and the start of the year is that the new coach has the opportunity to play them.
Pole wasn’t contracted at that stage and neither was Matamua. The NRL laws stated that you could only play Dev and Train and Trial players after round 10 this year.
The week Madge is sacked is the first week that players like the above and Nu Brown were able to debut.

BK is coach at present isn't he?

 

[pawsandclaws1]

No one is "praying for his return," that's a fiction of your creation. He had poor results and the club moved on it which is fair enough. The way in which they did it (i.e. if they were prepared to sack him now, why did they not do it at the beginning of 2022, and why was it so reactive,) has question marks over it but other than that the results had not materialised.

It's fair criticism to assess Sheens since his time last at the helm for WT and be concerned. He didn't turn Hull KR or Salford into powerhouses in England despite his ability and past achievements as a coach. It suggests that he may be past it as a head coach.

While I concede he is a better outcome than employing the likes of Ciraldo, Brown or Barrett as they are completely untested or failures, it is not a better option than Morris, Flanagan or even someone like Henry, Toovey or Green.

This all being said, if he works his magic here again, he will get the credit he deserves. But it is completely understandable that fans are pensive about this move by the club.

So you represent the views of others on this forum as that comment was a response to one user? MMM

 

[diedpretty]

Pret

That “style” was based around 1 player - that player no longer plays, and there aren’t any others in the game to replicate it. That “style” while entertaining (every other week) was as frustrating as hell, and certainly not sustainable.
It also barely took us to the finals…

We can all watch the YouTube highlights from that time - but seriously, it didn’t work half the time (not half!!) even back then… it’s not going to bring you the joy you seem to be so fondly clinging on to now.

If only we could all hang our hats on to what we achieved 20 years ago…

One thing I know for sure - coaches who don’t evolve, don’t last… I’ve seen no evidence at any club that Sheens has evolved as a coach - None. In fact, it’s all downhill from his last good season with us for him as well…
I do agree that the kids will get a chance to do what they do - but there is no evidence to suggest that wouldn’t have happened anyway… and to think these kids know who Tim Sheens is before he came back is stupid, they’ll know their Benji and Robbie’s - they’ll remember the flick passes… not the coach!! And those kids and pathways were set up previously, that’s why they gave Sheens a job to come and watch over them…

pretty blinkered view - once they actually clicked that 05 side and style was more than just Benji. They had a spine as good as any side today. They had a no 7 who was in control and had a great kicking game. They had experienced and skillful outside backs that weren't afraid to throw the ball about. A mobile pack of forwards that got the team on the front foot. Prince was the player that drove that side - the team fell apart with his contract saga and departure.

 

[innsaneink]

Look people it’s time to move on. Maguire is gone just like the scarecrow and the walking corpse potter. We have to unite as a club and support the new/old coach.
If u are to believe cloudy meatballs we didn’t have much choice, if CC, woofe and goldfish Morris knocked us back. They wouldn’t sign Flanagan for what ever reason, then the Sheens is easily the best choice available.
We always new it was going to be a hard slog out for the next few years even with the unproven Ciraldo.
So instead of death ridding us like the DT tabloid media do, let’s get behind our coach and club and back them!!

I'll give him a chance.... What else can we do?
Not confident but change brings a little.hope....rhe only way is up please... Can't get worse can we?

 

[Telltails]

So you represent the views of others on this forum as that comment was a response to one user? MMM

Mate in case you don't realise the only person who seems to be obsessed with Maguire is you. You keep saying he is gone but when ever anyone has concerns over Sheens appt you get on the defensive and bring up Maguire.
The concerns over Sheens are separate to Maguire and for some they are legitimate.

 

[batboy]

I disagree with you on a number of points. The most glaring is this; Sheens has always been recognised as a student of the game, an innovator. Imo his role at WTs is to oversee the introduction of our talented youngsters into the NRL for the time he is with the club. I hope this includes a total scrapping of the Maguire style of play.

Disagree all you like - Sheens name hasn’t been mentioned in the NRL for the best part of a decade… and he hasn’t innovated anything for a long, long time - and even then… it took generational talent to do it. He may still be watching football, weather he’s still a student or not - you don’t know and couldn’t say…
There’s a difference between a tragic and a student.
Ben Johnson used to be the fastest man on the planet - now he lives in his mums basement and does ads….

 

[OzLuke]

I agree, with having an experienced coach like Sheens, my caveat though, Sheens was hired to basically keep the Office out of football, and now with his focus on team coaching his other responsibilities may suffer.
The sacking of Madge was obviously more of a priority than finding a new coach.
Back in 2017, Cleary was hesitant to take on the job because of the club's reputation for constant change and sackings. has anything changed?

So if Sheens moves to head coach, who takes his current position up?