NRL admits bunker mistake

You have got to laugh, the NRL are upset at the NSW Govt for going back on their word on grants for work on Grounds showing no integrity in the way it all has been handled, Well, surprise surprise. Integrity that's a big word that used to mean something, like how we have been treated by the NRL they told us the bunker got it wrong in our case, but they will defend the team, who benefited by the errors made, NQL, who have been given two competition points that basically have secured 2nd or 3rd place for them And denied us a fair result. And feel they are being so good to us by offering a meeting of all clubs to discuss it after the season is over, how great is that, And by the way, Im pretty sure in my 76 plus years of being a tiger - & West Tigers man there were other times that we were going to take league to court, but from memory nothing ever was gained. ???? SO THE TEAM THAT REALLY CHEATED, AND THEY DID, ARE REWARDED, AND THE TEAM THAT WON, ARE RIPPED OF AT EVERY TURN, and get 0 points.
 
We had no challenges anyway for your first point, if in fact you can double down a challenge 🤣
Hey Cobar, regardless of whether we had a challenge up our sleeve or not, that lying cheat Butler stated that it had been checked, which no doubt was a lie.

So that leaves us with the Cowboys challenge which even if an escort was ruled and even it was a legitimate escort the off side kick off precedes it.

I can't quote exact examples but I am sure that I have have seen challenges fairly recently where I was quite surprised that a challenge was dismissed because on checking the replay an earlier irregularity by the challenging team was found resulting in the the ruling going the way of their opponents.

This should have been picked up on the replay during the challenge but was once again conveniently overlooked by the Klown in the bunker.
 

OPINION​

Following the siren song of legal action will result in more heartache for Tigers​

Darren Kane

Darren Kane

Sports Columnist
August 5, 2022 — 11.44am


It’s by equal measure both curious and entirely understandable that a fortnight later it’s still a matter of discussion whether the result of the Wests Tigers-North Queensland match might actually be overturned - whether as a result of some sort of opaque and actually non-existent adjudication and appeals process.

For it’s a defining characteristic of sport and the rules which govern all sports, that field-of-play decisions must be respected; that sports tribunals, and administrations, must not trespass upon the autonomy of match officials. Even if they royally stuff up.

The North Queensland Cowboys take on the West Tigers in round 19 of the 2022 NRL Premiership

Yet nonetheless, if I was infected by the great enthusiasm and great devotions which burden long-suffering Wests Tigers players, fans, coaches and chairpersons, I’d be abjectly filthy about, and gutted by the end result of the July 24 match. Ecstasy isn’t supposed to be followed by such blinding agony.

And on that basis alone, in actuality I’d be going right off like a frog inside a filthy orange, black and white football sock, if the match outcome mattered to me even in some obscure way. Multiple arguable mistakes, of the kind which together amounted to the match officials awarding a penalty to the Cowboys, simply shouldn’t happen.

Yet just as players routinely might err and come up short in the heat of battle, there’s also no effort without error and shortcoming, when it comes to match officials. Everyone, in all walks of professional life, makes mistakes. Sport doesn’t occur inside a vacuum.

Plenty of people can’t make decisions quickly when they get to the front of the queue at McDonald’s, let alone when actual pressure is applied. Yet listen to the rhetoric, and referees have their eyes re-painted on each Tuesday afternoon.

In 2006, the AFL decided it had the power to overturn the result of the ‘Sirengate’ Fremantle-St Kilda match, distorted by an umpire missing the final siren and permitting the game to run for another 10 seconds or thereabouts, during which short interlude more points were scored, and the lead was swapped.

In that case and at the time, the AFL’s rules relevantly provided that the match timekeepers shall sound the siren to signal the end of a quarter “until a field umpire acknowledges that the siren has been heard and brings play to an end”, and also, that play in each quarter (including the final quarter) shall come to an end when any one of the field umpires hears the signal.

The AFL’s investigations demonstrated that the timekeeper erred in only allowing the siren to sound until they witnessed players from the leading team celebrating, and not until (as was required) an umpire positively acknowledged the sounding of the siren and brought play to a final halt.
So it’s not as if there’s absolutely no precedent with the Wests Tigers having a crack. But in the AFL’s experience, reversing the match outcome caused as much consternation as doing nothing would have. And also, the AFL are a bit of a closed biosphere when it comes to these things.
Tigers chairman Lee Hagipantelis held talks with senior NRL officials on Thursday over the refereeing controversy.

Tigers chairman Lee Hagipantelis held talks with senior NRL officials on Thursday over the refereeing controversy.

However, the Wests Tigers’ case is crucially different. The NRL’s operations rules include provisions that say, categorically, that in all cases it’s the match referee who’s the sole arbiter of when play shall cease after the half-time or full-time siren sounds. The same rules, in the next paragraph, further state that the referee may extend a match to award a penalty or to complete the play currently underway, at the referee’s discretion.

Any argument that the events, which led to the Cowboys being awarded a penalty after the final whistle, somehow happened after the completion of play and in circumstances where the penalty simply couldn’t be awarded, is futile. The facts drawn from the match footage eviscerate the essence of the argument.

Wests Tigers’ contention that the match was over should garner sympathy, but it’s a losing argument. It would also create a mightily slippery slope, if match results could be overturned in such circumstances, and especially where the NRL’s rules are silent.

The short point is that the referee had quite clearly NOT decided that the match was at an end, where the referee is the sole decider of that fact.

There isn’t any right of appeal here. It would emasculate the power and authority of every rugby league official in the country, if results of this contentiousness could be simply overturned in circumstances where there is no right, power or authority to do so. For if new rules and new policy is invented ‘on the fly’ about such matters, the inevitable consequence is that it becomes the Cowboys who will then appeal. And then win.

Sports administrators and tribunals must refrain from interfering in such matters. Courts have a ridiculously limited appetite for resolving arguments rooted in disagreements about the correctness of in-play refereeing decisions. Sport requires finality, not judges holding a rulebook in one hand and a crystal ball in the other. Which makes sense - sport would be utterly unworkable otherwise.

Examples of rugby league decisions being judicially reviewed are virtually non-existent. When disputes involving other sports, such as thoroughbred racing, have wound their way into court, judges invariably give such cases short shrift. The relevant rules invariably preserve the sanctity of the umpire’s call, unless the rules of the actual sport permit otherwise.

Moreover, decisions of the Court of Arbitration for Sport are plentiful. The starting point is that in-play decisions are immune from review. CAS has refused to overturn decisions disqualifying boxers because of ‘below the belt’ punches, and officials disqualifying winning race walkers not walking properly.

CAS refused to intervene even where Olympic gymnastics judges made blatant errors calculating a competitor’s accumulated scores, because the authority of referees would be ‘fatally undermined’ if every decision was open to post-match examination.

Jurisprudence illustrates that interference by the CAS will be an open possibility only in peculiar and rare instances. If a sport’s rules demand a referee control a match in a concrete way - such as the order of play in a penalty shootout – it’s conceivable that a breach might be reviewable.

At the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City two decades ago, a South Korean speed skating case confirmed the CAS would intervene if it were proven by direct evidence that a referee’s decision was made as a manifestation of corruption or bad faith.

But such cases are almost impossible to prove. In the boxing competition at the Seoul Olympics in 1988, Roy Jones Jnr lost the gold medal bout. Months later all three judges were found to be hopelessly corrupt. By then it was too late to appeal.

Sport at its best is gloriously unscripted, uncertain and compelling. The spectacle lies in the immediacy and the uncertainty. Inherently subjective, instantaneous, line-ball judgement calls on complex rules and unclear facts will never be right all of the time. And almost always, they won’t and mustn’t be appealable.
 
lee won’t go near the courts , I don’t rate his practice at all , if it’s a tuff one and you need help don’t go to them , gutless ,
Sound s very much like fear of the mafia and its conseqences. If Wests tigers embarass the NRL that's what may happen.
 
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Hey Cobar, regardless of whether we had a challenge up our sleeve or not, that lying cheat Butler stated that it had been checked, which no doubt was a lie.

So that leaves us with the Cowboys challenge which even if an escort was ruled and even it was a legitimate escort the off side kick off precedes it.

I can't quote exact examples but I am sure that I have have seen challenges fairly recently where I was quite surprised that a challenge was dismissed because on checking the replay an earlier irregularity by the challenging team was found resulting in the the ruling going the way of their opponents.

This should have been picked up on the replay during the challenge but was once again conveniently overlooked by the Klown in the bunker.
Hey Hank, believe me, I won't argue any of their crap.
I still think we might be successful with an out of court settlement.
There's absolutely no chance of getting 2 points.
I just can't see it happening because of ladder, betting and god knows what other ramifications.
They won't change to rules to allow after game challenges.
Can you imagine more than one result challenge happening. It could take weeks like this has and how will that will send things into chaos at finals time. No way will we get 2 points and open up the flood gates.
 

OPINION​

Following the siren song of legal action will result in more heartache for Tigers​

Darren Kane

Darren Kane

Sports Columnist
August 5, 2022 — 11.44am


It’s by equal measure both curious and entirely understandable that a fortnight later it’s still a matter of discussion whether the result of the Wests Tigers-North Queensland match might actually be overturned - whether as a result of some sort of opaque and actually non-existent adjudication and appeals process.

For it’s a defining characteristic of sport and the rules which govern all sports, that field-of-play decisions must be respected; that sports tribunals, and administrations, must not trespass upon the autonomy of match officials. Even if they royally stuff up.

The North Queensland Cowboys take on the West Tigers in round 19 of the 2022 NRL Premiership

Yet nonetheless, if I was infected by the great enthusiasm and great devotions which burden long-suffering Wests Tigers players, fans, coaches and chairpersons, I’d be abjectly filthy about, and gutted by the end result of the July 24 match. Ecstasy isn’t supposed to be followed by such blinding agony.

And on that basis alone, in actuality I’d be going right off like a frog inside a filthy orange, black and white football sock, if the match outcome mattered to me even in some obscure way. Multiple arguable mistakes, of the kind which together amounted to the match officials awarding a penalty to the Cowboys, simply shouldn’t happen.

Yet just as players routinely might err and come up short in the heat of battle, there’s also no effort without error and shortcoming, when it comes to match officials. Everyone, in all walks of professional life, makes mistakes. Sport doesn’t occur inside a vacuum.

Plenty of people can’t make decisions quickly when they get to the front of the queue at McDonald’s, let alone when actual pressure is applied. Yet listen to the rhetoric, and referees have their eyes re-painted on each Tuesday afternoon.

In 2006, the AFL decided it had the power to overturn the result of the ‘Sirengate’ Fremantle-St Kilda match, distorted by an umpire missing the final siren and permitting the game to run for another 10 seconds or thereabouts, during which short interlude more points were scored, and the lead was swapped.

In that case and at the time, the AFL’s rules relevantly provided that the match timekeepers shall sound the siren to signal the end of a quarter “until a field umpire acknowledges that the siren has been heard and brings play to an end”, and also, that play in each quarter (including the final quarter) shall come to an end when any one of the field umpires hears the signal.

The AFL’s investigations demonstrated that the timekeeper erred in only allowing the siren to sound until they witnessed players from the leading team celebrating, and not until (as was required) an umpire positively acknowledged the sounding of the siren and brought play to a final halt.
So it’s not as if there’s absolutely no precedent with the Wests Tigers having a crack. But in the AFL’s experience, reversing the match outcome caused as much consternation as doing nothing would have. And also, the AFL are a bit of a closed biosphere when it comes to these things.
Tigers chairman Lee Hagipantelis held talks with senior NRL officials on Thursday over the refereeing controversy.

Tigers chairman Lee Hagipantelis held talks with senior NRL officials on Thursday over the refereeing controversy.

However, the Wests Tigers’ case is crucially different. The NRL’s operations rules include provisions that say, categorically, that in all cases it’s the match referee who’s the sole arbiter of when play shall cease after the half-time or full-time siren sounds. The same rules, in the next paragraph, further state that the referee may extend a match to award a penalty or to complete the play currently underway, at the referee’s discretion.

Any argument that the events, which led to the Cowboys being awarded a penalty after the final whistle, somehow happened after the completion of play and in circumstances where the penalty simply couldn’t be awarded, is futile. The facts drawn from the match footage eviscerate the essence of the argument.

Wests Tigers’ contention that the match was over should garner sympathy, but it’s a losing argument. It would also create a mightily slippery slope, if match results could be overturned in such circumstances, and especially where the NRL’s rules are silent.

The short point is that the referee had quite clearly NOT decided that the match was at an end, where the referee is the sole decider of that fact.

There isn’t any right of appeal here. It would emasculate the power and authority of every rugby league official in the country, if results of this contentiousness could be simply overturned in circumstances where there is no right, power or authority to do so. For if new rules and new policy is invented ‘on the fly’ about such matters, the inevitable consequence is that it becomes the Cowboys who will then appeal. And then win.

Sports administrators and tribunals must refrain from interfering in such matters. Courts have a ridiculously limited appetite for resolving arguments rooted in disagreements about the correctness of in-play refereeing decisions. Sport requires finality, not judges holding a rulebook in one hand and a crystal ball in the other. Which makes sense - sport would be utterly unworkable otherwise.

Examples of rugby league decisions being judicially reviewed are virtually non-existent. When disputes involving other sports, such as thoroughbred racing, have wound their way into court, judges invariably give such cases short shrift. The relevant rules invariably preserve the sanctity of the umpire’s call, unless the rules of the actual sport permit otherwise.

Moreover, decisions of the Court of Arbitration for Sport are plentiful. The starting point is that in-play decisions are immune from review. CAS has refused to overturn decisions disqualifying boxers because of ‘below the belt’ punches, and officials disqualifying winning race walkers not walking properly.

CAS refused to intervene even where Olympic gymnastics judges made blatant errors calculating a competitor’s accumulated scores, because the authority of referees would be ‘fatally undermined’ if every decision was open to post-match examination.

Jurisprudence illustrates that interference by the CAS will be an open possibility only in peculiar and rare instances. If a sport’s rules demand a referee control a match in a concrete way - such as the order of play in a penalty shootout – it’s conceivable that a breach might be reviewable.

At the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City two decades ago, a South Korean speed skating case confirmed the CAS would intervene if it were proven by direct evidence that a referee’s decision was made as a manifestation of corruption or bad faith.

But such cases are almost impossible to prove. In the boxing competition at the Seoul Olympics in 1988, Roy Jones Jnr lost the gold medal bout. Months later all three judges were found to be hopelessly corrupt. By then it was too late to appeal.

Sport at its best is gloriously unscripted, uncertain and compelling. The spectacle lies in the immediacy and the uncertainty. Inherently subjective, instantaneous, line-ball judgement calls on complex rules and unclear facts will never be right all of the time. And almost always, they won’t and mustn’t be appealable.

So the ref can keep for game going forever or not?
 
It is exactly as I expected. Total fog off and what really transpired will never be known. All we can hope is a deal was stitched….but we will never know. Peter V and his mate Tonto are smarter but lower than Greenberg
I will never be happy until we get the opportunity to hear and see the unaltered audio and full transcripts of the bunker/referee/on field conversations relating to this event.

The disappointing thing to me is that this meeting mentions nothing about the audio being presented as was originally requested.

You just can't help but ask, What are they hiding?
 
Hey Hank, believe me, I won't argue any of their crap.
I still think we might be successful with an out of court settlement.
There's absolutely no chance of getting 2 points.
I just can't see it happening because of ladder, betting and god knows what other ramifications.
They won't change to rules to allow after game challenges.
Can you imagine more than one result challenge happening. It could take weeks like this has and how will that will send things into chaos at finals time. No way will we get 2 points and open up the flood gates.
I would like the 2 points but have never argued to even try getting them because I know it would never happen and if it did the whole competition would be a joke because you would never know if a result would stand.

What I have wanted all a long is the audio and transcripts to see if there was any hint of game fixing and corruption involved.

I want the corruption wiped from the game and if there is any to be found, then the people involved need to go up the river for a stint as well as having severe financial penalties imposed.

I want a strong message sent to those contemplating any sort of corrupt activity that there is every chance that they will be caught and that message starts with severe penalties being imposed.
 
Hey Cobar, regardless of whether we had a challenge up our sleeve or not, that lying cheat Butler stated that it had been checked, which no doubt was a lie.

So that leaves us with the Cowboys challenge which even if an escort was ruled and even it was a legitimate escort the off side kick off precedes it.

I can't quote exact examples but I am sure that I have have seen challenges fairly recently where I was quite surprised that a challenge was dismissed because on checking the replay an earlier irregularity by the challenging team was found resulting in the the ruling going the way of their opponents.

This should have been picked up on the replay during the challenge but was once again conveniently overlooked by the Klown in the bunker.
I agree with what your saying.
What I don't agree with is our challenge to be awarded 2 points.
If this eventuates in an out of court settlement of $1mil because of damaged brand, roster ramifications, wooden spoon threat or whatever these legal brains can come up with...would you not be happy. I would.
 
I agree with what your saying.
What I don't agree with is our challenge to be awarded 2 points.
If this eventuates in an out of court settlement of $1mil because of damaged brand, roster ramifications, wooden spoon threat or whatever these legal brains can come up with...would you not be happy. I would.
Not if the NRL is going to be on our back in 2023 and beyond. They can get nasty with Wests Tigers.
 
I would like the 2 points but have never argued to even try getting them because I know it would never happen and if it did the whole competition would be a joke because you would never know if a result would stand.

What I have wanted all a long is the audio and transcripts to see if there was any hint of game fixing and corruption involved.

I want the corruption wiped from the game and if there is any to be found, then the people involved need to go up the river for a stint as well as having severe financial penalties imposed.

I want a strong message sent to those contemplating any sort of corrupt activity that there is every chance that they will be caught and that message starts with severe penalties being imposed.
And I think this is what Lee is trying to achieve mate.
Giving us two points allows other clubs to do the same. Imagine having a review after every round. It would be like horse racing where the results have to be reviewed by the stewards before the "all clear is given"
Do you know whats happening with the audio hank. We may have it and be under a gag order.
If there is real criminal activity WT could really be in for a huge settlement. Looking at some in the past from soccer, some have been over 20mil pounds. I'll research that...
 
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Not if the NRL is going to be on our back in 2023 and beyond. They can get nasty with Wests Tigers.
Really? Is that emotion or case history following us getting up their noses.
I just said in a previous post that if there is proven criminal activity we could see an out of court settlement ranging into the millions.
All you need is proof which is why the NRL are hesitant in handing over audio imo.
 
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Examples of rugby league decisions being judicially reviewed are virtually non-existent..
*WARNING! MAJOR RANT BELOW! *

Thanks very much for posting that. It's great to get different views and opinions and look at them objectively.

He's compiled a comprehensive, 'matter of fact' style, article that shows why he has the view he does.

I disagree.

Journalist or not, he is still a person writing about what he thinks. And so are we.

I could definitely give him a run for his money when it comes to banging on about something I'm passionate about (I'm sure a lot of you are aware of this by now! Sorry... 😔), so I will respond to the point quoted that stood out to me and give it a good try:

"Examples of rugby league decisions being judicially reviewed are virtually non-existent."

To which I posit this:

Yes, taking sporting disputes to state or federal court - to my knowledge this is true.

However.

What happens when a player is put on report for say, a hip drop tackle, or swearing and abusing a referee?

They are put on report and sent to "the judiciary".

Never been there, but my guess is that on the Monday or Tuesday (day/s after the event, mind) the player is sent to the NRL's offices, stands in a room next to his representative, and the actions of his reported indiscretion are then thoroughly examined using all available audiovisual data - numerous cameras and angles, slow motion, however many microphones... You get the drift.

The player's representative is there to try to convince the panel of 'adjudicators' he was wrongly charged.

Sometimes they're successful. Most times they are aren't, and on top of that, for having the gall to challenge the referee's on field ruling, they are dealt a harsher penalty than if they had just accepted the ban and stayed home.

Now call me crazy, but to me this kind of reminds me of a court (which, unfortunately, I have been in, but we won't go into that! 🤣).

The NRL is the de facto supreme court of its own competition.

They are a law unto themselves and this is just another example in a history rife with hypocrisy and double standards.

So we have two hypotheticals:

Case 1
A referee makes a decision on field and puts a player on report. After a delay of 1,2... however many days after the fact, it is then examined and the player has the right to representation and the chance to be found innocent and incorrectly charged.


Case 2
A referee doesn't make an on field decision, is contacted by the person in the bunker about something (not in the rules btw...), ignores the captain from team A trying to make a challenge (not in the rules btw...) clearly heard on TV coverage saying "it's been cleared" when there is no possible way it could have been (unless Klein is a blind man with a Delorean...not sure if this is in the rules tbh), accepts a challenge from the captain of team B (thereby challenging the decision he has not made - not in the rules btw... ), the bunker awards a penalty to team B - that even the NRL said was the wrong decision - completely missing the fact that before the incident in question the player recommencing play was offside....

The result is despite all of the things that were known to have self admittedly been done wrong at that time, the tigers have absolutely ZERO recourse because referees make mistakes, what happens on the field and all that...

I don't care about bullshit soft whistles and "we messed up. Sorry champ, now off you go, Tiger 😉".

Fk that. I know the tigers will never get within a country mile of those two points, and yes I'm a tigers fan, but I can honestly say that I believe this whole situation would never have happened to the Roosters or Storm, et al.
 
Last edited:
I


*WARNING! MAJOR RANT BELOW! *

Thanks very much for posting that. It's great to get different views and opinions and look at them objectively.

He's compiled a comprehensive, 'matter of fact' style, article that shows why he has the view he does.

I disagree.

Journalist or not, he is still a person writing about what he thinks. And so are we.

I could definitely give him a run for his money when it comes to banging on about something I'm passionate about (I'm sure a lot of you are aware of this by now! Sorry... 😔), so I will respond to the point quoted that stood out to me and give it a good try:

"Examples of rugby league decisions being judicially reviewed are virtually non-existent."

To which I posit this:

Yes, taking sporting disputes to state or federal court - to my knowledge this is true.

However.

What happens when a player is put on report for say, a hip drop tackle, or swearing and abusing a referee?

They are put on report and sent to "the judiciary".

Never been there, but my guess is that on the Monday or Tuesday (day/s after the event, mind) the player is sent to the NRL's offices, stands in a room next to his representative, and the actions of his reported indiscretion are then thoroughly examined using all available audiovisual data - numerous cameras and angles, slow motion, however many microphones... You get the drift.

The player's representative is there to try to convince the panel of 'adjudicators' he was wrongly charged.

Sometimes they're successful. Most times they are aren't, and on top of that, for having the gall to challenge the referee's on field ruling, they are dealt a harsher penalty than if they had just accepted the ban and stayed home.

Now call me crazy, but to me this kind of reminds me of a court (which, unfortunately, I have been in, but we won't go into that! 🤣).

The NRL is the de facto supreme court of its own competition.

They are a law unto themselves and this is just another example in a history rife with hypocrisy and double standards.

So we have two hypotheticals:

Case 1
A referee makes a decision on field and puts a player on report. After a delay of 1,2... however many days after the fact, it is then examined and the player has the right to representation and the chance to be found innocent and incorrectly charged.


Case 2
A referee doesn't make an on field decision, is contacted by the person in the bunker about something (not in the rules btw...), ignores the captain from team A trying to make a challenge (not in the rules btw...) clearly heard on TV coverage saying "it's been cleared" when there is no possible way it could have been (unless Klein is a blind man with a Delorean...not sure if this is in the rules tbh), accepts a challenge from the captain of team B (thereby challenging the decision he has not made - not in the rules btw... ), the bunker awards a penalty to team B - that even the NRL said was the wrong decision - completely missing the fact that before the incident in question the player recommencing play was offside....

The result is despite all of the things that were known to have self admittedly been done wrong at that time, the tigers have absolutely ZERO recourse because referees make mistakes, what happens on the field and all that...

I don't care about bullshit soft whistles and "we messed up. Sorry champ, now off you go, Tiger 😉".

Fk that. I know the tigers will never get within a country mile of those two points, and yes I'm a tigers fan, but I can honestly say that I believe this whole situation would never have happened to the Roosters or Storm, et al.
VERY WELL PUT,
You have made the perfect explanation of what happened, and myself just being an ordinary guy cannot see how the West Tigers if taking a case with all this evidence in our favour to court could possibly lose this case.
 
I



VERY WELL PUT,
You have made the perfect explanation of what happened, and myself just being an ordinary guy cannot see how the West Tigers if taking a case with all this evidence in our favour to court could possibly lose this case.
Thank you Dennis.

It's two weeks since it happened and you'd certainly be forgiven as a neutral observer for looking at this and thinking "something's not right here...".

If this happened to any team (well, maybe except Parramatta 🤣) I would hold the same view.

It's not right - it's practically been universally acknowledged as such.

Yet instead of doing what (I and many others believe) is right, the Wests Tigers, it's members and fans are being treated with contempt, as the most prudent thing for the nrl to do right now is to defer addressing it until the horse has bolted anyway.

It reminds me of Donald Trump, who is a convicted Rapist and Felon; say complete shit that people like to hear so they're happy right now. Don't worry, at the end of the season no one will care about that any more anyway...

Time breeds apathy quickly and if they do indeed have audio that is badly incriminating, then they have put space between the cause and resolution to dilute its impact.

Just how it looks to me and it makes me angry!
 

OPINION​

Following the siren song of legal action will result in more heartache for Tigers​

Darren Kane

Darren Kane

Sports Columnist
August 5, 2022 — 11.44am


It’s by equal measure both curious and entirely understandable that a fortnight later it’s still a matter of discussion whether the result of the Wests Tigers-North Queensland match might actually be overturned - whether as a result of some sort of opaque and actually non-existent adjudication and appeals process.

For it’s a defining characteristic of sport and the rules which govern all sports, that field-of-play decisions must be respected; that sports tribunals, and administrations, must not trespass upon the autonomy of match officials. Even if they royally stuff up.

The North Queensland Cowboys take on the West Tigers in round 19 of the 2022 NRL Premiership

Yet nonetheless, if I was infected by the great enthusiasm and great devotions which burden long-suffering Wests Tigers players, fans, coaches and chairpersons, I’d be abjectly filthy about, and gutted by the end result of the July 24 match. Ecstasy isn’t supposed to be followed by such blinding agony.

And on that basis alone, in actuality I’d be going right off like a frog inside a filthy orange, black and white football sock, if the match outcome mattered to me even in some obscure way. Multiple arguable mistakes, of the kind which together amounted to the match officials awarding a penalty to the Cowboys, simply shouldn’t happen.

Yet just as players routinely might err and come up short in the heat of battle, there’s also no effort without error and shortcoming, when it comes to match officials. Everyone, in all walks of professional life, makes mistakes. Sport doesn’t occur inside a vacuum.

Plenty of people can’t make decisions quickly when they get to the front of the queue at McDonald’s, let alone when actual pressure is applied. Yet listen to the rhetoric, and referees have their eyes re-painted on each Tuesday afternoon.

In 2006, the AFL decided it had the power to overturn the result of the ‘Sirengate’ Fremantle-St Kilda match, distorted by an umpire missing the final siren and permitting the game to run for another 10 seconds or thereabouts, during which short interlude more points were scored, and the lead was swapped.

In that case and at the time, the AFL’s rules relevantly provided that the match timekeepers shall sound the siren to signal the end of a quarter “until a field umpire acknowledges that the siren has been heard and brings play to an end”, and also, that play in each quarter (including the final quarter) shall come to an end when any one of the field umpires hears the signal.

The AFL’s investigations demonstrated that the timekeeper erred in only allowing the siren to sound until they witnessed players from the leading team celebrating, and not until (as was required) an umpire positively acknowledged the sounding of the siren and brought play to a final halt.
So it’s not as if there’s absolutely no precedent with the Wests Tigers having a crack. But in the AFL’s experience, reversing the match outcome caused as much consternation as doing nothing would have. And also, the AFL are a bit of a closed biosphere when it comes to these things.
Tigers chairman Lee Hagipantelis held talks with senior NRL officials on Thursday over the refereeing controversy.

Tigers chairman Lee Hagipantelis held talks with senior NRL officials on Thursday over the refereeing controversy.

However, the Wests Tigers’ case is crucially different. The NRL’s operations rules include provisions that say, categorically, that in all cases it’s the match referee who’s the sole arbiter of when play shall cease after the half-time or full-time siren sounds. The same rules, in the next paragraph, further state that the referee may extend a match to award a penalty or to complete the play currently underway, at the referee’s discretion.

Any argument that the events, which led to the Cowboys being awarded a penalty after the final whistle, somehow happened after the completion of play and in circumstances where the penalty simply couldn’t be awarded, is futile. The facts drawn from the match footage eviscerate the essence of the argument.

Wests Tigers’ contention that the match was over should garner sympathy, but it’s a losing argument. It would also create a mightily slippery slope, if match results could be overturned in such circumstances, and especially where the NRL’s rules are silent.

The short point is that the referee had quite clearly NOT decided that the match was at an end, where the referee is the sole decider of that fact.

There isn’t any right of appeal here. It would emasculate the power and authority of every rugby league official in the country, if results of this contentiousness could be simply overturned in circumstances where there is no right, power or authority to do so. For if new rules and new policy is invented ‘on the fly’ about such matters, the inevitable consequence is that it becomes the Cowboys who will then appeal. And then win.

Sports administrators and tribunals must refrain from interfering in such matters. Courts have a ridiculously limited appetite for resolving arguments rooted in disagreements about the correctness of in-play refereeing decisions. Sport requires finality, not judges holding a rulebook in one hand and a crystal ball in the other. Which makes sense - sport would be utterly unworkable otherwise.

Examples of rugby league decisions being judicially reviewed are virtually non-existent. When disputes involving other sports, such as thoroughbred racing, have wound their way into court, judges invariably give such cases short shrift. The relevant rules invariably preserve the sanctity of the umpire’s call, unless the rules of the actual sport permit otherwise.

Moreover, decisions of the Court of Arbitration for Sport are plentiful. The starting point is that in-play decisions are immune from review. CAS has refused to overturn decisions disqualifying boxers because of ‘below the belt’ punches, and officials disqualifying winning race walkers not walking properly.

CAS refused to intervene even where Olympic gymnastics judges made blatant errors calculating a competitor’s accumulated scores, because the authority of referees would be ‘fatally undermined’ if every decision was open to post-match examination.

Jurisprudence illustrates that interference by the CAS will be an open possibility only in peculiar and rare instances. If a sport’s rules demand a referee control a match in a concrete way - such as the order of play in a penalty shootout – it’s conceivable that a breach might be reviewable.

At the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City two decades ago, a South Korean speed skating case confirmed the CAS would intervene if it were proven by direct evidence that a referee’s decision was made as a manifestation of corruption or bad faith.

But such cases are almost impossible to prove. In the boxing competition at the Seoul Olympics in 1988, Roy Jones Jnr lost the gold medal bout. Months later all three judges were found to be hopelessly corrupt. By then it was too late to appeal.

Sport at its best is gloriously unscripted, uncertain and compelling. The spectacle lies in the immediacy and the uncertainty. Inherently subjective, instantaneous, line-ball judgement calls on complex rules and unclear facts will never be right all of the time. And almost always, they won’t and mustn’t be appealable.
Thank you to @jirskyr . Read recycle and rubbish. Twitter .
 
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