I think the issue is Sheens

sleeve said:
The first game we were killed by errors, but most areas were far better. That was also taking into account Api and Brooks who did little training. The second game, the opposition coaches targeted our defensive weaknees , fullback, 5/8, and outside backs. Overall a bad start to our season, but it will take time to blend the side, and work out who is our top 17. We were never going to challenge for the 8. This build will take time, it's a matter of sorting the wheat from the weeds.
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I think you are right but do we just switch off. I'm starting to get that way. Cancel Kayo and watch the highlights or game if we win.

It's pretty depressing.
 
Sheens’ only mistake was giving Benji too much authority over the team too soon.
Sheens, to his credit, saw Benji’s coaching style wasn’t working and tried to salvage the game.
We have a coach who didn’t want the job and a team captain who didn’t want that job.
Do we have anyone else in the team who doesn’t want to do what they’re doing? 🤣
 
BZN said:
twentyforty said:
You make a few good points and I agree with many of them.
One of the things that has always amused me about the Aussie logic when it comes to group dynamics is this need to look for a scapegoat. The urge to pin all the problems on one guy.
Isn’t that what the club has been doing all these years?
We have a board, we have 50 admin and coaching staff, plus 30 plus players, but some how we’re gonna be a crack footy team if we sack one player?
Here’s an idea?
How about we identify organisational behaviours which encourage a cultural mediocrity and simply change them for a more positive approach?
Too hard?
Sure you’ll get screams from those with a cushy gig, saying it ain’t broke and doesn’t need fixing. 😜
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Congratulations on some very well thought out and articulated posts ToddSanchez.
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The organisational behaviours which encourage cultural mediocrity are being addressed. We have an incredible new high performance facility at Concord, we are allegedly nurturing young juniors who have bright NRL futures and we signed arguably the best player in his position in the game (Api). We are financially solvent and in no danger of relocation - we are a healthy club. I don’t think Justin Pascoe or Lee have any football intelligence at all but their agenda in the last 2-3 years has been not too bad. We have bought in legends who represented Wests Tigers to steer our ship for at least the next 5 years.

The final domino to fall is the players - we need to jump this hurdle. I’ll give you some examples of players changing the fortunes of organisations who struggle for on field success - some are smart acquisitions and others involve making tough choices with underperforming personnel:

Domantas Sabonis to the Sacramento Kings - The Kings have not made the NBA finals longer than we haven’t made the top 8 - this year they will likely be the two seed with the best attack in the NBA and Sabonis, who is the missing link, will only make 3rd team all NBA. They lost Tyrese Haliburton in this trade who is going to be a multiple time all NBA player but he wasn’t what the Kings needed to succeed so they traded him for what they did need.

Virgil Van Dijk to Liverpool - Liverpool needed a strong CB and leader. For years they had Martin Skrtel who I would argue is the worst player ever to play in the Premier League. Looked the part, was physical, could score the odd goal but had literally zero - I mean absolutely nothing there at all - in terms of positioning and organising his defence to the point where Liverpool had to try and outscore teams to win, which no champion side does (To be fair to Skrtel he also played in a defence that had Glen Johnson, Alberto Moreno and Simon Mignolet - hardly world beaters). In comes Van Dijk - leadership, presence, calmness, responsibility = Champions League and first title of the Premier League era.

Skrtel who is very similar to Brooks (physical with no football smarts) moves abroad where people with no attachment to him realise that he is terrible. Complains about being benched and transfers to smaller and smaller clubs where his career abruptly ends.

Joe Burrow to Cincinatti Bengals - Bengals get the number 1 pick and take a mature college senior to replace the highly competent Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton has a passer rating of 90 - better than a lot of the all time greats - Favre, Marino, Aikman to name a few. He had taken Cincinatti to the playoffs but the organisation knew they had a ceiling with Dalton that didn’t end in the Superbowl. In comes Joe Burrow - cool hand, amazing pass selection, elite level accuracy, elite football intelligence, elite game management - and things start to improve a bit. Does his ACL in his rookie year and gets back to open the second season and takes his side to their first Superbowl since 1986. A small market team who liked Andy Dalton (Luke Brooks) but knew his ceiling was well below what it took to win it all didn’t blink when given the opportunity to trade Dalton who is a great guy but just an ok player.

On field results are all about players. The Sacramento Kings are going to make the NBA playoffs this year! Cincinatti Bengals reached a Superbowl, Liverpool win the Premier and Champions League - why? PLAYERS.

We are trying to make the top 8 of a 17 team competition. The only thing that can realistically prevent that from happening is players.

Fans of Arsenal have bemoaned their ownership for years - got new players - the right players and parted ways with the bad eggs - Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang - the club captain! Gone! And they are about to win the Premier League!

Los Angeles Lakers are in the play in spot for the NBA - finally! After starting the season 0-5 -why? They trade Russell Westbrook - an NBA all time top 75 player - an MVP - 10 time
all star - averaging 16 pts a game this season! Because they had the clarity to see that even though he is good physically and has a good reputation he was not what they needed, he is poor mentally, he is a bad team mate, he has never won at the highest level and made their team worse.

It is all about players.
 
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twentyforty said:
twentyforty said:
Sheens’ only mistake was giving Benji too much authority over the team too soon.
Sheens, to his credit, saw Benji’s coaching style wasn’t working and tried to salvage the game.
We have a coach who didn’t want the job and a team captain who didn’t want that job.
Do we have anyone else in the team who doesn’t want to do what they’re doing? 🤣
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
I thought this when the last 2 games were on.

Why is Benji in the box.

If I were Sheens I'd have Benji and Robbie as water boys barking orders to them.

Then when round 15 comes around.. put Benji and Robbie into the box when they have an idea what's going down there on the ground.
 
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ToddSanchez said:
The organisational behaviours which encourage cultural mediocrity are being addressed. We have an incredible new high performance facility at Concord, we are allegedly nurturing young juniors who have bright NRL futures and we signed arguably the best player in his position in the game (Api). We are financially solvent and in no danger of relocation - we are a healthy club. I don’t think Justin Pascoe or Lee have any football intelligence at all but their agenda in the last 2-3 years has been not too bad. We have bought in legends who represented Wests Tigers to steer our ship for at least the next 5 years.

The final domino to fall is the players - we need to jump this hurdle. I’ll give you some examples of players changing the fortunes of organisations who struggle for on field success - some are smart acquisitions and others involve making tough choices with underperforming personnel:

Domantas Sabonis to the Sacramento Kings - The Kings have not made the NBA finals longer than we haven’t made the top 8 - this year they will likely be the two seed with the best attack in the NBA and Sabonis, who is the missing link, will only make 3rd team all NBA. They lost Tyrese Haliburton in this trade who is going to be a multiple time all NBA player but he wasn’t what the Kings needed to succeed so they traded him for what they did need.

Virgil Van Dijk to Liverpool - Liverpool needed a strong CB and leader. For years they had Martin Skrtel who I would argue is the worst player ever to play in the Premier League. Looked the part, was physical, could score the odd goal but had literally zero - I mean absolutely nothing there at all - in terms of positioning and organising his defence to the point where Liverpool had to try and outscore teams to win, which no champion side does. Skrtel also played in a defence that had Glen Johnson, Alberto Moreno and Simon Mignolet in it who are hardly world beaters to be fair. In comes Van Dijk - leadership, presence, calmness, responsibility = Champions League and first title of the Premier League era.

Skrtel who is very similar to Brooks (physical with no football smarts) moves abroad where people with no attachment to him realise that he is terrible. Complains about being benched and transfers to smaller and smaller clubs where his career abruptly ends.

Joe Burrow to Cincinatti Bengals - Bengals get the number 1 pick and take a mature college senior to replace the highly competent Andy Dalton. Andy Dalton has a passer rating of 90 - better than a lot of the all time greats - Favre, Marino, Aikman to name a few. He had taken Cincinatti to the playoffs but the organisation knew they had a ceiling with Dalton that didn’t end in the Superbowl. In comes Joe Burrow - cool hand, amazing pass selection, elite level accuracy, elite football intelligence, elite game management - and things start to improve a bit. Does his ACL in his rookie year and gets back to open the second season and takes his side to their first Superbowl since 1986. A small market team who liked Andy Dalton (Luke Brooks) but knew his ceiling was well below what it took to win it all didn’t blink when given the opportunity to trade Dalton who is a great guy but just an ok player.

On field results are all about players. The Sacramento Kings are going to make the NBA playoffs this year! Cincinatti Bengals reached a Superbowl, Liverpool win the Premier and Champions League - why? PLAYERS.

We are trying to make the top 8 of a 17 team competition. The only thing that can realistically prevent that from happening is players.

Fans of Arsenal have bemoaned their ownership for years - got new players - the right players and parted ways with the bad eggs - Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang - the club captain! Gone! And they are about to win the Premier League!

Los Angeles Lakers are in the play in spot for the NBA - finally! After starting the season 0-5 -why? They trade Russell Westbrook - an NBA all time top 75 player - an MVP - 10 time
all star - averaging 16 pts a game this season! Because they had the clarity to see that even though he is good physically and has a good reputation he was not what they needed, he is poor mentally, he is a bad team mate, he has never won at the highest level and made their team worse.

It is all about players.
Click to expand...
GPT?
 
DJG said:
I thought this when the last 2 games were on.

Why is Benji in the box.

If I were Sheens I'd have Benji and Robbie as water boys barking orders to them.

Then when round 15.. then put Benji into the box when he has an idea what's going down there on the ground.
Click to expand...
Exactly!!!
 
twentyforty said:
Sheens’ only mistake was giving Benji too much authority over the team too soon.
Sheens, to his credit, saw Benji’s coaching style wasn’t working and tried to salvage the game.
We have a coach who didn’t want the job and a team captain who didn’t want that job.
Do we have anyone else in the team who doesn’t want to do what they’re doing? 🤣
Click to expand...
I think API got the job out of respect to his achievements and cause he was a safe choice.
Next most likely, Douhei, a bit of a loose cannon and obviously doesn’t have the full support of his teammates.( that’s if you buy into the supposed election procedure I.e. secret ballot amongst the players).
It’s not too late for the coaching team to rethink their plan, so now they’ve had a couple of kicks in the bum, let’s see if there is a change.
 
twentyforty said:
DJG said:
I thought this when the last 2 games were on.

Why is Benji in the box.

If I were Sheens I'd have Benji and Robbie as water boys barking orders to them.

Then when round 15.. then put Benji into the box when he has an idea what's going down there on the ground.
Click to expand...

Exactly!!!
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Definitely agree with this point. Even have them just coaching on the sideline for presence and using Chris Heinington to get messages to the players would be a good step.
 
Halbrowne61 said:
I think API got the job out of respect to his achievements and cause he was a safe choice.
Next most likely, Douhei, a bit of a loose cannon and obviously doesn’t have the full support of his teammates.( that’s if you buy into the supposed election procedure I.e. secret ballot amongst the players).
It’s not too late for the coaching team to rethink their plan, so now they’ve had a couple of kicks in the bum, let’s see if there is a change.
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Does anyone else not have a problem with the secret election ballot?
Wouldn’t a show of hands in front of all teammates be better for respect and morale.
They are saying he was voted in by his peers but his peers were all blindfolded and led into a dark room in the process. We hear reports that ‘Jokingly’ AD and JO were demanding the ballet numbers.
Like what is it about our club that we do things so timidly privately and then publicly announce it like we’ve invented electricity?
 
upthetigers said:
I was talking to a player in the lower grades last night. He seems to think Sheens and Benji don't get on. This news doesn't really surprise me, does this team look like they are playing for their coach?
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Maybe where there’s smoke there’s fire, but why wouldn’t they get on. Sheens seems to be going all out in support of Benji and is giving him a great opportunity.
Surely Benjis not egotistical enough to think he doesn’t need Sheens advice. Sometimes i struggle with where these disagreements supposedly come from.
If anyone can shed any real light on what might be happening, I for one would love to know.
Used to be one team one dream or is that old time rubbish now.
 
Halbrowne61 said:
Maybe where there’s smoke there’s fire, but why wouldn’t they get on. Sheens seems to be going all out in support of Benji and is giving him a great opportunity.
Surely Benjis not egotistical enough to think he doesn’t need Sheens advice. Sometimes i struggle with where these disagreements supposedly come from.
If anyone can shed any real light on what might be happening, I for one would love to know.
Used to be one team one dream or is that old time rubbish now.
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Maybe they are disagreeing in how his apprenticeship should be tailored.
Put some stock on the club though.
Fair dinkum missing out on the best new coach in the game and they spruik a solution that brings an old bloke out of retirement and includes the mentoring over a 2 year short term traineeship program to accelerate 10 years of coaching experience and association that yes the best new coach has into a bloke that has never even ran water for the team.
 
Needaname said:
Maybe they are disagreeing in how his apprenticeship should be tailored.
Put some stock on the club though.
Fair dinkum missing out on the best new coach in the game and they spruik a solution that brings an old bloke out of retirement and includes the mentoring over a 2 year short term traineeship program to accelerate 10 years of coaching experience and association that yes the best new coach has into a bloke that has never even ran water for the team.
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When we're run by clowns we look like clowns
 
This season has been a wild ride so far and we're only two games in. I am thoroughly entertained and frustrated. I had my head in my hands for half the game, yet I wasn't angry at a lack of effort like previous years. Long may Sheens and Benji reign.
 
Needaname said:
Maybe they are disagreeing in how his apprenticeship should be tailored.
Put some stock on the club though.
Fair dinkum missing out on the best new coach in the game and they spruik a solution that brings an old bloke out of retirement and includes the mentoring over a 2 year short term traineeship program to accelerate 10 years of coaching experience and association that yes the best new coach has into a bloke that has never even ran water for the team.
Click to expand...
Shane Flanagan was and is still also available.

The Cronulla supplements saga shouldn't leave a sour taste in anyone's mouth anymore. They were taking advice from a doctor, the players were unharmed and all remain fond of Shane in general.

There is literally no way that our forwards would get away with what they dish up on a weekly basis under Flanagan. He is a direct, modern, over the advantage line and intimidate with defence coach.

With the salary cap increasing and some of our players still off contract if we just hold off on resigning and build a war chest with expired salaries we could be in our best position to be a good project for someone coming in. I reckon he'd jump at the chance to have a go with us as long as a couple of our players and Sheens weren't retained.
 
Needaname said:
Does anyone else not have a problem with the secret election ballot?
Wouldn’t a show of hands in front of all teammates be better for respect and morale.
They are saying he was voted in by his peers but his peers were all blindfolded and led into a dark room in the process. We hear reports that ‘Jokingly’ AD and JO were demanding the ballet numbers.
Like what is it about our club that we do things so timidly privately and then publicly announce it like we’ve invented electricity?
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Tough one N, I can see some merit in both options. Personally though, I’m more comfortable with nominate your 1-2-3 , enter it secretly and we go from there.
 
ToddSanchez said:
Shane Flanagan was and is still also available.

The Cronulla supplements saga shouldn't leave a sour taste in anyone's mouth anymore. They were taking advice from a doctor, the players were unharmed and all remain fond of Shane in general.

There is literally no way that our forwards would get away with what they dish up on a weekly basis under Flanagan. He is a direct, modern, over the advantage line and intimidate with defence coach.

With the salary cap increasing and some of our players still off contract if we just hold off on resigning and build a war chest with expired salaries we could be in our best position to be a good project for someone coming in. I reckon he'd jump at the chance to have a go with us as long as a couple of our players and Sheens weren't retained.
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Well that’s Hasler and Flanagan both available and both know their way around the sharp end of the comp.
However, I would imagine the chances of us pulling the pin on the current coaching setup are 1000/1 or more.
Interesting to possibly speculate on here but won’t happen.
 
ToddSanchez said:
Shane Flanagan was and is still also available.

The Cronulla supplements saga shouldn't leave a sour taste in anyone's mouth anymore. They were taking advice from a doctor, the players were unharmed and all remain fond of Shane in general.

There is literally no way that our forwards would get away with what they dish up on a weekly basis under Flanagan. He is a direct, modern, over the advantage line and intimidate with defence coach.

With the salary cap increasing and some of our players still off contract if we just hold off on resigning and build a war chest with expired salaries we could be in our best position to be a good project for someone coming in. I reckon he'd jump at the chance to have a go with us as long as a couple of our players and Sheens weren't retained.
Click to expand...
Flanagan always talks highly of the Tigers you can tell he wants the job.
 
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