Signings, Suggestions & Rumours Discussion

We can speculate what we want about money but what I do know is that Klemmer, Utoikamanu, Twal and Pole is a great prop rotation.

I'd prefer Pole off the bench personally and have him rotate with Stef while Twal rotates with Klemmer. Two damaging, impact runners with two solid workhorse types. Perfect fits.

I don't mind the idea of Frizell for 2 years. He's older sure, but looked good for NSW and delivers week-in week-out for Newcastle. Always been a huge fan of him as a player.

8. Utoikamanu
9. Koroisau
10. Klemmer
11. Papali'i
12. Frizell
13. Bateman

14. Pole
15. Twal
16. Kepaoa
17. ???

Few better packs than that. Tons of experience there. I don't mind Kepaoa on the bench as 2nd row/backline cover (if he continues to improve) and hopefully we can grab a Connor Watson/Kurt Mann type that can fill in at 9/13 and even the halves at a pinch.
 
Stop making sense.

For some reason people believe paying one of our least impactful forwards like he was in our top 3 was good business. Letting Offa go was the best thing we could do. Other players would be going "I am dominating week in week out, I'm in contention for rep footy. I should be getting paid more than this bloke who is barely holding his spot in the team."

In 2019 we signed Matterson, our best player at around 400k. He saw his output, he looked around and saw people making half the effort for twice the money and he wanted out. His replacement Luciano followed the same trajectory. It is why Aloiai left, it is why Marty left, it is why any time we finally get a breakout forward they immediately want to leave. hell it is probably why Ice wanted out of his contract. The best second rower in the league signed for the wooden spooners on 600k a year and then a few weeks later all the other second rowers like Kikau started getting thrown 800k at them as the market started to dry up.

Someone like Stefano would weigh himself against Offa's salary and expect at least somewhere around 700k considering he is in line for rep footy. Yes I am aware they still weigh their salary against other players in the league, however a player is more likely to stay at their team for a little under if they believe an offer is fair and in line with where they view their position in a team.

The core of our pack for the next few years is now on
8. Stefano 500k
9. Api 700k
10. Klemmer 400k this year, my guess is around 700k from next year on
11. Papali'i 600k
12. Bateman 700 - 800k

15. Twal 450k (I would expect him to stay for around the same money too)
16. Pole 250k

If Offa was here I wouldn't see Stefano taking less than 700k. However, he has recently come out talking about how he wants to captain this club in the future and he has also had a horrid experience at another club (Eels). We have also obviously developed him into being in SOO contention. Now I could see him extending for 2 years for around 650k each in good faith. In this case we could front end 75k from each year and just pay him 575k flat over the next 4 years, which would be really good business.

I have Pole on the bench here as I believe he should take Klemmer's starting prop spot in a couple years when he starts to drop off. If Pole extended for another 2 years I could see it being around 500k. Again if we do a bit of moving around on the payments we can take 100k off each of those 2 years and apply it to his current contract. Meaning 350k over the next 2 years and 400k the 2 years after. Again another really good bit of business.

Twal is honestly probably the first picked every week. Would pretty much make most top 17s in the league, every team needs an Alex Twal. Was in the Blues squad a few years ago but hasn't bounced back since his sternum injury. Next year is his final contracted year. I can see him staying for around the same money as he seems to love the club and it is honestly a pretty fair contract. Seems to be adding another dimension to his game now as well, has probably passed and offloaded more this year than his last 4 years. It is also said a forwards best few years are usually 26-29, he is now 26 with a ton of experience so expect further improvement.

Lock these 3 up for around the prices I said and that is the core of our pack for 3 years on really good money for us. Sheens and Benji seem to be really proud of the fact that they have already been able to front end some contracts already while still having a stack of cash in the bank for this year. I could honestly see the 2 that we front end the most being Klemmer and Bateman, If we haven't already. If we gave Klemmer an extra 400k this year to be paying him 800k and Bateman the same taking him to 1.2 for this year then we could take their contracts down to 600k each going forward. We could have a full representative starting pack without paying 1 of them more than 600k and the best hooker in the game on 700k.

This is 100% the reason we are looking to move on Blore as well. He is still on quite a solid contract as Panthers had him on stupid money before he even debuted and we have been paying him on potential since. Why would Twal and Pole extend on that kind of money when someone like Blore is being paid similar for 1/100th of the output (I do rate Blore, however Pole will play more games this year than Blore has in 3-4. Pole taking on the whole raiders pack is also much more impressive than Blore taking on Nathan Brown)

Our 8-17 honestly just needs a 13 and a 17 at this point. We can definitely fill these 2 from within as we already have quite a bit of experience and leadership(Matamua being the most likely to fill one of these spots). I do not believe we can bring 2 people up at the same time. If we bring up Da Silva as our 14, Matamua as our 13 and bring up another 17 from reserve grade then that will add quite a bit of inexperience to our pack. This won't be too bad if we can get an experienced half like hunt, however, if we can't then I can't see us capitalising on our advantage from when our starters are on.

It does not look like we can land an experienced half at the moment which means the best solutions for us atm is to target a starting centre and a starting creative 13. There are plenty of centres out there and I do not doubt that we can land someone decent. I am not sure if we are targeting Best or not, but if we aren't then I am sure it is because we have something else up our sleeve as I am sure we could benefit from him.

This leaves an experienced forward and well... Frizzell fits the bill. If it is longer than 2 years then absolutely not (We can't afford to become a retirement village again), however he is on 600k and I am sure we could once again get that subsidized by the Knights for next year. Put him on an edge and one of our backrowers at lock and we suddenly have a top 4 pack being paid on average like a 9-12th pack.

We already seem to have found the core backs that we will be building around. Brooks seems keen to take a heavily reduced contract (2 years 500k). Nof and brooks are the only players in our club that are eligible for the 200k cap allowance, which means if Brooks signs for cheap then we can throw it all at Nof taking his contract from 500k back down to around 300k a year on the cap.

All of this is just to say with the way we are doing business we could quite easily fit in at least 2 marquee backs. The best news is these numbers were also before the salary got approved to go up by another 2.5 million. I do not understand how we have gone from probably the worst managed cap in the league to one of the best in such a short space of time. Was it luck? Did Lee and Pascoe step back and stop getting involved? Alternatively have they accrued enough experience to be benefiting us in these areas? Did we bring someone in from the outside that made an immediate impact? (Sheens? Doubt it is Benji as the tide seemed to turn in late 2021 after the docuseries on fox. I know 2022 was horrid on field however we definitely seemed to clear up our act behind the scenes)
Really well articulated post.

Even if the numbers are not 100%, the thought pattern shows a valid strategic thinking.

I will add that we need an upgrade at 7. I believe that with an Adam Reynolds style half back we would be top 8.
 
be nice if we could hide a Jamie Soward in the line,only there for 2 things,kick for a repeat set n convert 4 into 6,our defenders arent up to it yet,
 
Really well articulated post.

Even if the numbers are not 100%, the thought pattern shows a valid strategic thinking.

I will add that we need an upgrade at 7. I believe that with an Adam Reynolds style half back we would be top 8.
The 3 positions we need to look at currently in order of most important to least are Half > Lock > Centre.

It is possible Star continues his good form and I think Tupou will naturally progress to a centre over time. We also have Naden who could be good if he improves on his discipline & Feledy is joining the squad next year and has some wraps on him. I would expect AD to return as a centre as Bula has fullback locked up and we look better with Wakeham in the halves. That is if he does return and if not then we have pretty good centre money free at the end of next year.

Matamua could be ready for lock soon, but he might not be. Plenty of players with a lot of talk behind them recently have stunk it up for us. The ones that have been really good have been the ones with a lot less talk (e.g. Bula, Pole). The ones with big wraps (Simpkin, Tuki, Hoffman, Madden, Talua, Blore) haven't kicked on at all.

Our junior halves are a few years away and we can not wait. Wakeham is great for a backup half but we are a 4th-6th place team with someone like Hunt. I do not know if someone like L. Fainu gets us to top 8 if paired with Brooks next year.
 
be nice if we could hide a Jamie Soward in the line,only there for 2 things,kick for a repeat set n convert 4 into 6,our defenders arent up to it yet,
We have been the second best team defensive team in the comp since our first bye in round 7.

Edit: Does not mean I think that we could afford a bad defender. Having AD in our defensive line made things worse. Just wanted to say our defence isn't actually far off atm.
 
Throw as much as we can at Liam Martin….

Plan B could be Scott Sorensen imo, he’s off contract as well and with Garner and Hoskings also there may be hard to crack in regularly. He’s an absolute work horse.

John Bateman through the middle as a link man looks even more dangerous when he’s on the edge
For me Teig Wilton is someone we could target if we run out of options. Scott Sorensen is getting there in age
 
The 3 positions we need to look at currently in order of most important to least are Half > Lock > Centre.

It is possible Star continues his good form and I think Tupou will naturally progress to a centre over time. We also have Naden who could be good if he improves on his discipline & Feledy is joining the squad next year and has some wraps on him. I would expect AD to return as a centre as Bula has fullback locked up and we look better with Wakeham in the halves. That is if he does return and if not then we have pretty good centre money free at the end of next year.

Matamua could be ready for lock soon, but he might not be. Plenty of players with a lot of talk behind them recently have stunk it up for us. The ones that have been really good have been the ones with a lot less talk (e.g. Bula, Pole). The ones with big wraps (Simpkin, Tuki, Hoffman, Madden, Talua, Blore) haven't kicked on at all.

Our junior halves are a few years away and we can not wait. Wakeham is great for a backup half but we are a 4th-6th place team with someone like Hunt. I do not know if someone like L. Fainu gets us to top 8 if paired with Brooks next year.
I can't see Doueihi coming within a mile of NRL ever again!!

He was so far off the pace before this latest injury - he has no chance of ever being a viable first grader again!
 
I can't see Doueihi coming within a mile of NRL ever again!!

He was so far off the pace before this latest injury - he has no chance of ever being a viable first grader again!
I don’t agree fully with this statement. But the reality is that he is most likely not going to play next season, and depending on how the team is going plus better recruitment he probably won’t be resigned. I think Fedely will be one of our centres in the next few years and if toa continues his form then we won’t require any centres. Our number 1 target needs to be a controlling half fir the next few years. I don’t know if latu fainu is a controlling half type or ball runner, does anybody know?? As we have Large coming through in that role.
 
Stop making sense.

For some reason people believe paying one of our least impactful forwards like he was in our top 3 was good business. Letting Offa go was the best thing we could do. Other players would be going "I am dominating week in week out, I'm in contention for rep footy. I should be getting paid more than this bloke who is barely holding his spot in the team."

In 2019 we signed Matterson, our best player at around 400k. He saw his output, he looked around and saw people making half the effort for twice the money and he wanted out. His replacement Luciano followed the same trajectory. It is why Aloiai left, it is why Marty left, it is why any time we finally get a breakout forward they immediately want to leave. hell it is probably why Ice wanted out of his contract. The best second rower in the league signed for the wooden spooners on 600k a year and then a few weeks later all the other second rowers like Kikau started getting thrown 800k at them as the market started to dry up.

Someone like Stefano would weigh himself against Offa's salary and expect at least somewhere around 700k considering he is in line for rep footy. Yes I am aware they still weigh their salary against other players in the league, however a player is more likely to stay at their team for a little under if they believe an offer is fair and in line with where they view their position in a team.

The core of our pack for the next few years is now on
8. Stefano 500k
9. Api 700k
10. Klemmer 400k this year, my guess is around 700k from next year on
11. Papali'i 600k
12. Bateman 700 - 800k

15. Twal 450k (I would expect him to stay for around the same money too)
16. Pole 250k

If Offa was here I wouldn't see Stefano taking less than 700k. However, he has recently come out talking about how he wants to captain this club in the future and he has also had a horrid experience at another club (Eels). We have also obviously developed him into being in SOO contention. Now I could see him extending for 2 years for around 650k each in good faith. In this case we could front end 75k from each year and just pay him 575k flat over the next 4 years, which would be really good business.

I have Pole on the bench here as I believe he should take Klemmer's starting prop spot in a couple years when he starts to drop off. If Pole extended for another 2 years I could see it being around 500k. Again if we do a bit of moving around on the payments we can take 100k off each of those 2 years and apply it to his current contract. Meaning 350k over the next 2 years and 400k the 2 years after. Again another really good bit of business.

Twal is honestly probably the first picked every week. Would pretty much make most top 17s in the league, every team needs an Alex Twal. Was in the Blues squad a few years ago but hasn't bounced back since his sternum injury. Next year is his final contracted year. I can see him staying for around the same money as he seems to love the club and it is honestly a pretty fair contract. Seems to be adding another dimension to his game now as well, has probably passed and offloaded more this year than his last 4 years. It is also said a forwards best few years are usually 26-29, he is now 26 with a ton of experience so expect further improvement.

Lock these 3 up for around the prices I said and that is the core of our pack for 3 years on really good money for us. Sheens and Benji seem to be really proud of the fact that they have already been able to front end some contracts already while still having a stack of cash in the bank for this year. I could honestly see the 2 that we front end the most being Klemmer and Bateman, If we haven't already. If we gave Klemmer an extra 400k this year to be paying him 800k and Bateman the same taking him to 1.2 for this year then we could take their contracts down to 600k each going forward. We could have a full representative starting pack without paying 1 of them more than 600k and the best hooker in the game on 700k.

This is 100% the reason we are looking to move on Blore as well. He is still on quite a solid contract as Panthers had him on stupid money before he even debuted and we have been paying him on potential since. Why would Twal and Pole extend on that kind of money when someone like Blore is being paid similar for 1/100th of the output (I do rate Blore, however Pole will play more games this year than Blore has in 3-4. Pole taking on the whole raiders pack is also much more impressive than Blore taking on Nathan Brown)

Our 8-17 honestly just needs a 13 and a 17 at this point. We can definitely fill these 2 from within as we already have quite a bit of experience and leadership(Matamua being the most likely to fill one of these spots). I do not believe we can bring 2 people up at the same time. If we bring up Da Silva as our 14, Matamua as our 13 and bring up another 17 from reserve grade then that will add quite a bit of inexperience to our pack. This won't be too bad if we can get an experienced half like hunt, however, if we can't then I can't see us capitalising on our advantage from when our starters are on.

It does not look like we can land an experienced half at the moment which means the best solutions for us atm is to target a starting centre and a starting creative 13. There are plenty of centres out there and I do not doubt that we can land someone decent. I am not sure if we are targeting Best or not, but if we aren't then I am sure it is because we have something else up our sleeve as I am sure we could benefit from him.

This leaves an experienced forward and well... Frizzell fits the bill. If it is longer than 2 years then absolutely not (We can't afford to become a retirement village again), however he is on 600k and I am sure we could once again get that subsidized by the Knights for next year. Put him on an edge and one of our backrowers at lock and we suddenly have a top 4 pack being paid on average like a 9-12th pack.

We already seem to have found the core backs that we will be building around. Brooks seems keen to take a heavily reduced contract (2 years 500k). Nof and brooks are the only players in our club that are eligible for the 200k cap allowance, which means if Brooks signs for cheap then we can throw it all at Nof taking his contract from 500k back down to around 300k a year on the cap.

All of this is just to say with the way we are doing business we could quite easily fit in at least 2 marquee backs. The best news is these numbers were also before the salary got approved to go up by another 2.5 million. I do not understand how we have gone from probably the worst managed cap in the league to one of the best in such a short space of time. Was it luck? Did Lee and Pascoe step back and stop getting involved? Alternatively have they accrued enough experience to be benefiting us in these areas? Did we bring someone in from the outside that made an immediate impact? (Sheens? Doubt it is Benji as the tide seemed to turn in late 2021 after the docuseries on fox. I know 2022 was horrid on field however we definitely seemed to clear up our act behind the scenes)
Your comments on Twal are very good. I read years ago he had a good offload. He received his fair share of criticism for being one dimensional. I think it is great he is playing the way he is as he must be enjoying his football and has improved the team.
 
be nice if we could hide a Jamie Soward in the line,only there for 2 things,kick for a repeat set n convert 4 into 6,our defenders arent up to it yet,
Cmon, Soward did 3 things:
1. Kick for a repeat set.
2. Convert 4->6 (IMHO League should make tries 5 points and conversion +1).
3. Kick a field goal in tight games.

Seriously Dragons and Panthers, you often saw Soward point that 3 pointer.
 
The 3 positions we need to look at currently in order of most important to least are Half > Lock > Centre.
Pole is one of our best and most consistent players, game after game. IMHO, # 13 is his, and this position become one of our strengths.
If the last game is his break-through, Talau should be our LC.
Agree about halves, this season has clearly shown that they re our weakest spots, and either both of them have a break-out in the rest of the season or they must be replaced.
By saying that, one of the replacements must be 80+ goal kicker, as Wakeham's goal kicking is exceptional.
 

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