Are we a well coached side?

[twentyforty]

Lots more to it than just wearing headphones on game day which is all we're seeing so far

Hope he goes well but as usual this club gives me no confidence

He didnt look too happy about the performance against chooks.
Its a tough gig for a more experienced coach. By comparison Ciraldo's job at Penrith did nothing to prepare him for his current job. we'll see what unfolds when Benji is put to the test.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

He didnt look too happy about the performance against chooks.
Its a tough gig for a more experienced coach. By comparison Ciraldo's job at Penrith did nothing to prepare him for his current job. we'll see what unfolds when Benji is put to the test.

Probably really disappointed with the lack of second half application which sadly was a departure from the commitment of recent weeks.

One thing this year relative to the Madge years is they do seem to want to play for Benji/Sheens.

No threat of losing the dressing room.

Comments in the media regarding players unhappy with the coaching must be way off the mark with above in mind.

 

[Stevec]

We are not a well coached side !
We don't even run basic backline moves
Dummy half - halfback - right center / and or right edge forward - right winger or
Dummy half -5/8! -left center / and or left edge forward - left winger
The sequence of the center and edge forward can be either way around and on some plays the fullback chimes in to create overlap
The top teams do this week after week by running at speed drawing defenders and passing . Such that many times in the game the ball gets to the wing usually with space
That's exactly how we played when we put 66 pts on the cowboys but its rare
Most weeks the ball never arrives at the wing. Maybe left occasionally
Against the Roosters it was simply every forward trying the Barge over play like a one man band.
I see a lot of talk about the quality of our wingers but if the ball ( in attack ) never arrives there I can't tell .
Our attack is soooo clunky that is our main problem
As such No we are not well coached !!

 

[Jolls]

We are not a well coached side !
We don't even run basic backline moves
Dummy half - halfback - right center / and or right edge forward - right winger or
Dummy half -5/8! -left center / and or left edge forward - left winger
The sequence of the center and edge forward can be either way around and on some plays the fullback chimes in to create overlap
The top teams do this week after week by running at speed drawing defenders and passing . Such that many times in the game the ball gets to the wing usually with space
That's exactly how we played when we put 66 pts on the cowboys but its rare
Most weeks the ball never arrives at the wing. Maybe left occasionally
Against the Roosters it was simply every forward trying the Barge over play like a one man band.
I see a lot of talk about the quality of our wingers but if the ball ( in attack ) never arrives there I can't tell .
Our attack is soooo clunky that is our main problem
As such No we are not well coached !!

I'm willing to bet my left nut that they do that shit at training day in day out week in week out! Why aren't they capable of executing it?

Clearly they can do it; we have seen evidence that they can.

Is that on the coaches or the players we have operating in the halves and centres?

 

[Moh]

Soooo... how many coaches have we had that can't coach?

Think the problem(s) is(are) beyond the coach.

 

[Halbrowne61]

I question how well coached we really are.. we are very poor (probably the worst in the NRL) in the fundamentals below::

1) attacking short dropouts
2) defending short dropouts
3) catching bombs
4) defending in one line on the edges
5) attacking backline moves with purpose and an outcome.
6) attacking grubbed in goal kicks
7) attacking red zone bombs

There’s not much we’re very good at, and totally support your assessment.
Irrespective of all the talk re halves, great training sessions, motivated players etc etc we just don’t ever seem to look like our fundamentals are strong and our on field organisation is shambolic.
That’s certainly poor coaching as far as I’m concerned. I remember once Blocker Roach saying that the really good coaches always had a plan. As a matter of fact he said Warren Ryan used to have a plan for lining up at the team bbqs. 🤣
Get my drift !

 

[Tucker]

There’s not much we’re very good at, and totally support your assessment.
Irrespective of all the talk re halves, great training sessions, motivated players etc etc we just don’t ever seem to look like our fundamentals are strong and our on field organisation is shambolic.
That’s certainly poor coaching as far as I’m concerned. I remember once Blocker Roach saying that the really good coaches always had a plan. As a matter of fact he said Warren Ryan used to have a plan for lining up at the team bbqs. 🤣
Get my drift !

Warren Ryan showed us all his plan in the 89 Grand Final.

 

[Halbrowne61]

Warren Ryan showed us all his plan in the 89 Grand Final.

Sure did T, just passing on a general comment.
You're always so quick to pounce.

 

[Magpie_Magic]

Wazza had a plan in 89.

It's just that our very own Tim Sheens had a better one that day!

 

[jadtiger]

Wazza had a plan in 89.

It's just that our very own Tim Sheens had a better one that day!

It was Bill Harrigan who had the match winning plan when he invented a rule that did not exist

 

[NT_Tiger]

Are we really a better team with these 3 guys in our squad. Joe O was great for us but we have one spot available in our roster with a tonne of middle forwards.

Hastings is a joke on this forum. It's freaken bizzare he gets talked up.
Laurie plays awesome footy every so often.

I'm glad all of those players aren't here.

Have you been paying attention?
Where are the knights on the table compared to WT?
Its bizarre that people on this forum cannot discern the value of a controlling half and instead talk up a half that has demonstrated potential for ten years. Coaching decision 1.
Laurie plays awesome footy when given the chance, it's just he should have been given the chance earlier and more often. Coaching decision 2.
Ofahengaue was players player last year, well liked and did his job. Talked up as the next captain. Coaching decision 3.
So Yes we would be a better team with these players in the squad and No we have not been well coached. No spoon winning team can claim good coaching.

 

[earl]

Have you been paying attention?
Where are the knights on the table compared to WT?
Its bizarre that people on this forum cannot discern the value of a controlling half and instead talk up a half that has demonstrated potential for ten years. Coaching decision 1.

I have been paying attention. Have you ? Let's just check and see. Are the Knights winning on the back of Hastings ? Were we winning on the back of Hastings ?

The answers to me are clearly no and no.

I have zero confidence in anyone's value of the controlling half.

I have a lot of confidence in high quality players like Hughes and Munster who are great halves but not controlling halfbacks.

Laurie plays awesome footy when given the chance, it's just he should have been given the chance earlier and more often. Coaching decision 2.

Like last week ? He should have been given a chance earlier but did he deserve that chance ?

Ofahengaue was players player last year, well liked and did his job. Talked up as the next captain. Coaching decision 3.

We have a tonne of middle forwards in our roster and some have to go. I was a massive fan of Joe O but he is the first middle forward I would release.

No spoon winning team can claim good coaching.

I agree on this point.

 

[gregjm87]

Its bizarre that people on this forum cannot discern the value of a controlling half and instead talk up a half that has demonstrated potential for ten yeyears.

Hastings is valuable as a 'controlling halfback' because of the attacking potency of the Newcastle backline. They arguably have the best offensive 1-5 in the comp. All Hastings has to do is steer them and then let them create the points. In fairness to him he does this very well and I also believe at surface level letting him go was a mistake.
Take away the knights 1-5 and replace them with average players and Hastings inability to create individually would see his side severely struggle. In our team with arguably the worst 1-5, he isn't changing our fortunes significantly in my opinion.

 

[Magpies1969]

Easy answer "NO" and the results over the last 12 years back up his conclusion.
8 wins over the last 2 seasons is not good enough and players and coaches are not reaching their respective KPI's.

Until WT find a controlling Half Back (last real decent one WT had was Scott Prince) then results will continue the same.

Yes Coaching staff and some of their respective game plans and the use of the bench over the years leave me questioning their coaching abilities and direction the team is heading.

I will be interested to see how Marshall as sole Head Coach operates given as a player he played off the cuff style and maybe not to the coaches plan. Time will tell

 

[NT_Tiger]

I have been paying attention. Have you ? Let's just check and see. Are the Knights winning on the back of Hastings ? Were we winning on the back of Hastings ?

The answers to me are clearly no and no.

I have zero confidence in anyone's value of the controlling half.

I have a lot of confidence in high quality players like Hughes and Munster who are great halves but not controlling halfbacks.



Like last week ? He should have been given a chance earlier but did he deserve that chance ?



We have a tonne of middle forwards in our roster and some have to go. I was a massive fan of Joe O but he is the first middle forward I would release.



I agree on this point.

Would the Knights be 5th on the ladder with Brooks at 7, how about Wakeham, Will Smith anyone? No, No and No.
Laurie has one foot out the door. If he had been given an opportunity earlier maybe he wouldn't.
Coaching decisions.

 

[Jolls]

No we have not been well coached. No spoon winning team can claim good coaching.

I don't think that you can unequivocally state that winning the spoon and poor coaching go hand in hand - off the top of my head - Brad Arthur comes to mind having won the spoon after the salary cap fiasco and has taken the team to finals every year since (less 2023). Walters in 2021 finished just off the bottom in 14th and missed the finals in 22 - look where they are this year.

I'm not saying that Sheens and Co. haven't made some shit decisions this year; faith in Brooks and AD and slow to move Laurie into 5/8 for example. You can't can't equate that to poor coaching overall though - you need to look at the bigger picture.

The Brooks/AD decision has been a millstone that it has not been possible to recover from. It was a poor decision based on Sheen's belief that he could manufacture something from a kid he identified as a superstar and never got to coach. Misguided - but a decsion made before the season started that couldn't be reversed.

They recruited last off season to lay the platform for an unlocked Brooks and a dynamic AD. If you can't see that this element of plan was well executed you are blind. You only have to see the change in Twal, Big Red and our young forwards to see that there has been a positive influence on this aspect of the team. Stefano's late resurgence and grit is another example of a positive outcome.

The big issue we had this year was Brooks/AD/Wakeham/Smith and the lack of talent and depth in that area. It was a shit decision; no doubt and not reversible mid season. It bit us in the arse and sent season 2023 down the toilet; but is was one decision that has been clearly identified as being wrong by the coaching staff themselves.

The game against the Cowboys showed that on the rare occasion that Brooks clicks in attack; the rest of it started to fall into place. That doesn't happen unless it is coached. The inability to execute it lies with the players we have and the severe lack of depth in the roster.

If you look at it objectively and measure their performace against what well coached sides do the staff haven't been brilliant but certainly OK. The failure of 2023 can be traced back to the halves decsion made in 2023 - not on the effort or skill of the coaching staff in 2023.

Let's look at it again after we recruit this off season before we start blaming the coaching staff for the decisions made by the recruitment and selections board.

I'm not enamoured with Benji as the head coach, but his charisma surrounded by the right staff, combined with some astute recruitment to compliment to forward pack we have invested in may just be the start of the Tigers climb back up the ladder.

 

[NT_Tiger]

I don't think that you can unequivocally state that winning the spoon and poor coaching go hand in hand - off the top of my head - Brad Arthur comes to mind having won the spoon after the salary cap fiasco and has taken the team to finals every year since (less 2023). Walters in 2021 finished just off the bottom in 14th and missed the finals in 22 - look where they are this year.

I'm not saying that Sheens and Co. haven't made some shit decisions this year; faith in Brooks and AD and slow to move Laurie into 5/8 for example. You can't can't equate that to poor coaching overall though - you need to look at the bigger picture.

The Brooks/AD decision has been a millstone that it has not been possible to recover from. It was a poor decision based on Sheen's belief that he could manufacture something from a kid he identified as a superstar and never got to coach. Misguided - but a decsion made before the season started that couldn't be reversed.

They recruited last off season to lay the platform for an unlocked Brooks and a dynamic AD. If you can't see that this element of plan was well executed you are blind. You only have to see the change in Twal, Big Red and our young forwards to see that there has been a positive influence on this aspect of the team. Stefano's late resurgence and grit is another example of a positive outcome.

The big issue we had this year was Brooks/AD/Wakeham/Smith and the lack of talent and depth in that area. It was a shit decision; no doubt and not reversible mid season. It bit us in the arse and sent season 2023 down the toilet; but is was one decision that has been clearly identified as being wrong by the coaching staff themselves.

The game against the Cowboys showed that on the rare occasion that Brooks clicks in attack; the rest of it started to fall into place. That doesn't happen unless it is coached. The inability to execute it lies with the players we have and the severe lack of depth in the roster.

If you look at it objectively and measure their performace against what well coached sides do the staff haven't been brilliant but certainly OK. The failure of 2023 can be traced back to the halves decsion made in 2023 - not on the effort or skill of the coaching staff in 2023.

Let's look at it again after we recruit this off season before we start blaming the coaching staff for the decisions made by the recruitment and selections board.

I'm not enamoured with Benji as the head coach, but his charisma surrounded by the right staff, combined with some astute recruitment to compliment to forward pack we have invested in may just be the start of the Tigers climb back up the ladder.

My comment is not blaming the spoon exclusively on the coach/es. The roster is the primary factor with the coaching a contributing factor. Had the coach/es not made their halfback decision/s I believe we may well have avoided spoon two.

 

[earl]

Would the Knights be 5th on the ladder with Brooks at 7, how about Wakeham, Will Smith anyone? No, No and No.
Laurie has one foot out the door. If he had been given an opportunity earlier maybe he wouldn't.
Coaching decisions.

I think Brooks is better than Hastings and I don't care that Brooks is gone. I'm not worried about Laurie as well but I think he is a loss because he is a good value player. I don't see the roster decisions as being poor and definitely not the players you've mentioned.

I think the coaches have made mistakes. The team has come dead last and had very few wins. I also think we need to give the coaches more time and they haven't had a lot to work with.

 

[NT_Tiger]

I think Brooks is better than Hastings and I don't care that Brooks is gone. I'm not worried about Laurie as well but I think he is a loss because he is a good value player. I don't see the roster decisions as being poor and definitely not the players you've mentioned.

I think the coaches have made mistakes. The team has come dead last and had very few wins. I also think we need to give the coaches more time and they haven't had a lot to work with.

"The coaches have made mistakes. The team has come dead last and had very few wins." Are we a well coached side?

 

[earl]

"The coaches have made mistakes. The team has come dead last and had very few wins." Are we a well coached side?

For me personally it's too early to judge. This year is a write off. Will we improve next year ? Will we improve over the next 2-3 years ?

I'm as positive as I can be that we can improve from dead last 2 seasons in a row.