Continuity - why our rebuild will work

[Mccarry]

So what is the difference between teams that win a Rugby World Cup and ones that don’t? How does that relate to the Wests Tigers?

I want to encourage you all to listen to Ben Darwin talk about some of the data science behind Rugby Union. I get union’s boring (unless you’re playing it), but in this case I suggest there is hope for us and a MASSIVE dose of reality for fellow forum members.

Ep.74 - Whitebait Redundancy with Ben Darwin

Podcast Episode · The Roar Rugby Podcast · 07/08/2023 · 1h 5m

podcasts.apple.com

Ben makes many very interesting points. One that resonates with me was his point around each World Cup winning team were one of the top 3 in terms of their ‘continuity score’ coming into a World Cup. A recent history example of a high continuity score is the 2019 South African team. The 2019 Spring Boks were made up of mainly Stormers players (19 of their squad). This gave them a high continuity score going into the WC and they won.

I am not going to try to convey his points on here, just have a listen.

So how does this relate to Wests Tigers? How does this relate to whether I will renew my membership for a 15th straight year?

Our team has been moving around for years. First it was players leaving (Teddy onwards). Then it was new players always injured (Reynolds etc). Now it’s old players injured (AD, Brooks etc), new coaching, new players and young players.

We yell for changes (me included), forgetting that skill levels of elite players aren’t as different as game performance indicates. Everyone can perform at an elite skill level - look at Toa’a against the Cows.

Personally I feel that more change has led to worse results. We say we don’t want mediocrity so we change things, then we wish for mediocrity instead of wooden spoons.

So where to from here and why do I have hope?

We have invested heavily in young men. Many around 18/19. Risky, but clearly a serious long term chance to build continuity. Young men who have the skill. Young men who could play together for the long term.

We have committed to a coach- long term. This can give us coaching and system’s consistency. Once again listen to Ben Darwin’s insights on coaching.

Next year we are adding more new players - key players… halves. Existing evidence suggests we are going to be bottom four next year. Young players, playing with new players with a new coach.

I’m preparing myself now.

Losing next year will be worth it for me if we pick and stick. Yes we need a couple more elite players, but first we need continuity. We need a platform of how we play and the cohesiveness that comes when team mates intrinsically know what each other will do.

Api and Bula are such great examples. They have steadily got to know each others game.

Think of this in the tackle, knowing what your team mate will do in the wrestle. Think of it in the defensive line, knowing what your team mate will do. Ben’s analysis suggests these factors are some of the most important in Rugby.

We need this. Yet we have to earn it.
We shafted Sheens years ago. Since then we unwound our continuity one decision at a time, looking for miracles that would fix our performance.

2024 is all about building continuity for 2025. It’s not an excuse, it’s the painful truth

 

[Mccarry]

For anyone who hates the no home ground, listen to the part about away the Newcastle Knights when they play in their hi-vis jersey. 1 win 9 losses.

 

[upthetigers]

So what are you saying we should wait 5 years to make the top 8?

 

[Mccarry]

So what are you saying we should wait 5 years to make the top 8?

All I am saying is Ben Darwin’s insight is interesting and suggests continuity matters. I can’t see continuity being earned in one off season?

 

[twentyforty]

So what is the difference between teams that win a Rugby World Cup and ones that don’t? How does that relate to the Wests Tigers?

I want to encourage you all to listen to Ben Darwin talk about some of the data science behind Rugby Union. I get union’s boring (unless you’re playing it), but in this case I suggest there is hope for us and a MASSIVE dose of reality for fellow forum members.

Ep.74 - Whitebait Redundancy with Ben Darwin

Podcast Episode · The Roar Rugby Podcast · 07/08/2023 · 1h 5m

podcasts.apple.com

Ben makes many very interesting points. One that resonates with me was his point around each World Cup winning team were one of the top 3 in terms of their ‘continuity score’ coming into a World Cup. A recent history example of a high continuity score is the 2019 South African team. The 2019 Spring Boks were made up of mainly Stormers players (19 of their squad). This gave them a high continuity score going into the WC and they won.

I am not going to try to convey his points on here, just have a listen.

So how does this relate to Wests Tigers? How does this relate to whether I will renew my membership for a 15th straight year?

Our team has been moving around for years. First it was players leaving (Teddy onwards). Then it was new players always injured (Reynolds etc). Now it’s old players injured (AD, Brooks etc), new coaching, new players and young players.

We yell for changes (me included), forgetting that skill levels of elite players aren’t as different as game performance indicates. Everyone can perform at an elite skill level - look at Toa’a against the Cows.

Personally I feel that more change has led to worse results. We say we don’t want mediocrity so we change things, then we wish for mediocrity instead of wooden spoons.

So where to from here and why do I have hope?

We have invested heavily in young men. Many around 18/19. Risky, but clearly a serious long term chance to build continuity. Young men who have the skill. Young men who could play together for the long term.

We have committed to a coach- long term. This can give us coaching and system’s consistency. Once again listen to Ben Darwin’s insights on coaching.

Next year we are adding more new players - key players… halves. Existing evidence suggests we are going to be bottom four next year. Young players, playing with new players with a new coach.

I’m preparing myself now.

Losing next year will be worth it for me if we pick and stick. Yes we need a couple more elite players, but first we need continuity. We need a platform of how we play and the cohesiveness that comes when team mates intrinsically know what each other will do.

Api and Bula are such great examples. They have steadily got to know each others game.

Think of this in the tackle, knowing what your team mate will do in the wrestle. Think of it in the defensive line, knowing what your team mate will do. Ben’s analysis suggests these factors are some of the most important in Rugby.

We need this. Yet we have to earn it.
We shafted Sheens years ago. Since then we unwound our continuity one decision at a time, looking for miracles that would fix our performance.

2024 is all about building continuity for 2025. It’s not an excuse, it’s the painful truth

Been saying it for years, but many boffins keep quoting Einstein’s theory of insanity 😂
I prefer to follow Don Bradman’s theory of repetition which enables a player to do the right thing at the right time without any conscious forethought or effort.
we have a good enough team to make the playoffs, they are either poorly coached or not coached enough.
one single game proved they can do it if they apply themselves.
LO Cowboys. That game provided an insight to their true ability.

 

[jadtiger]

Been saying it for years, but many boffins keep quoting Einstein’s theory of insanity 😂
I prefer to follow Don Bradman’s theory of repetition which enables a player to do the right thing at the right time without any conscious forethought or effort.
we have a good enough team to make the playoffs, they are either poorly coached or not coached enough.
one single game proved they can do it if they apply themselves.
LO Cowboys. That game provided an insight to their true ability.

The difference between Bradman and Einstein's theories is quite simple,Einstein's theory about repetition is completely false as he never said it in his life.It is just an urban myth but one that is commonly believed

 

[Flippedy]

So basically, what Penrith have done.

 

[Fallen Angel]

So basically, what Penrith have done.

Piece of cake

 

[Mccarry]

So basically, what Penrith have done.

Not really, no.
The Panthers found a way to entice their young players to stay at the club. They also had enough elite juniors to just do that.

We have purchased most of our squad. It creates different team dynamic that impact our ability to build culture.

I don’t think any current NRL examples work for us. Our 2024 team may have less than 3 long term Tigers players in it. We are literally piecing a team culture together.

High performance culture have high performance teams at their heart.

Teams are fundamentally connected by trust. People give more and support others more when they trust each other. One of the beautiful things about continuity as an insight is it indirectly mirrors a core part of establishing trust.

Think of yourself in a workplace. You watch your mate Joe O work hard, train hard, show up and be a good bloke and then… boom he is gone. How would you feel in terms of trust with the organisation.

Or maybe years ago you watched the guy who trained you for years, the guy who basically established Wests Tigers NRL culture agree to a contract and then get booted, ending his NRL career.

If I worked for Wests Tigers as a footballer, I would not trust them. I would feel no safety to try new things. Trust creates safety. Bizarrely, safety

I’m not saying it’s the only thing we need to do but it is a fundamental shift in thinking. I would go as far to say that it’s foundational.

 

[happy_tiger]

Not really, no.
The Panthers found a way to entice their young players to stay at the club. They also had enough elite juniors to just do that.

We have purchased most of our squad. It creates different team dynamic that impact our ability to build culture.

I don’t think any current NRL examples work for us. Our 2024 team may have less than 3 long term Tigers players in it. We are literally piecing a team culture together.

High performance culture have high performance teams at their heart.

Teams are fundamentally connected by trust. People give more and support others more when they trust each other. One of the beautiful things about continuity as an insight is it indirectly mirrors a core part of establishing trust.

Think of yourself in a workplace. You watch your mate Joe O work hard, train hard, show up and be a good bloke and then… boom he is gone. How would you feel in terms of trust with the organisation.

Or maybe years ago you watched the guy who trained you for years, the guy who basically established Wests Tigers NRL culture agree to a contract and then get booted, ending his NRL career.

If I worked for Wests Tigers as a footballer, I would not trust them. I would feel no safety to try new things. Trust creates safety. Bizarrely, safety

I’m not saying it’s the only thing we need to do but it is a fundamental shift in thinking. I would go as far to say that it’s foundational.

I would say Penriths juniors to NRL LEVEL success rate would be far higher than any other clubs

 

[GCfan]

The difference between Bradman and Einstein's theories is quite simple,Einstein's theory about repetition is completely false as he never said it in his life.It is just an urban myth but one that is commonly believed

And Sheens tried 200 passes a day and that didn’t work either

 

[Mccarry]

I would say Penriths juniors to NRL LEVEL success rate would be far higher than any other clubs

It could be. Maybe they just get more swings at the ball.

It’s a big nursery with a very high standard. Has all the social economic ingredients, lots of space, low helicopter parenting etc. I think this would distort our perspective.

 

[gallagher]

So basically, what Penrith have done.

What? Lose pascoe?

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

So what is the difference between teams that win a Rugby World Cup and ones that don’t? How does that relate to the Wests Tigers?

I want to encourage you all to listen to Ben Darwin talk about some of the data science behind Rugby Union. I get union’s boring (unless you’re playing it), but in this case I suggest there is hope for us and a MASSIVE dose of reality for fellow forum members.

Ep.74 - Whitebait Redundancy with Ben Darwin

Podcast Episode · The Roar Rugby Podcast · 07/08/2023 · 1h 5m

podcasts.apple.com

Ben makes many very interesting points. One that resonates with me was his point around each World Cup winning team were one of the top 3 in terms of their ‘continuity score’ coming into a World Cup. A recent history example of a high continuity score is the 2019 South African team. The 2019 Spring Boks were made up of mainly Stormers players (19 of their squad). This gave them a high continuity score going into the WC and they won.

I am not going to try to convey his points on here, just have a listen.

So how does this relate to Wests Tigers? How does this relate to whether I will renew my membership for a 15th straight year?

Our team has been moving around for years. First it was players leaving (Teddy onwards). Then it was new players always injured (Reynolds etc). Now it’s old players injured (AD, Brooks etc), new coaching, new players and young players.

We yell for changes (me included), forgetting that skill levels of elite players aren’t as different as game performance indicates. Everyone can perform at an elite skill level - look at Toa’a against the Cows.

Personally I feel that more change has led to worse results. We say we don’t want mediocrity so we change things, then we wish for mediocrity instead of wooden spoons.

So where to from here and why do I have hope?

We have invested heavily in young men. Many around 18/19. Risky, but clearly a serious long term chance to build continuity. Young men who have the skill. Young men who could play together for the long term.

We have committed to a coach- long term. This can give us coaching and system’s consistency. Once again listen to Ben Darwin’s insights on coaching.

Next year we are adding more new players - key players… halves. Existing evidence suggests we are going to be bottom four next year. Young players, playing with new players with a new coach.

I’m preparing myself now.

Losing next year will be worth it for me if we pick and stick. Yes we need a couple more elite players, but first we need continuity. We need a platform of how we play and the cohesiveness that comes when team mates intrinsically know what each other will do.

Api and Bula are such great examples. They have steadily got to know each others game.

Think of this in the tackle, knowing what your team mate will do in the wrestle. Think of it in the defensive line, knowing what your team mate will do. Ben’s analysis suggests these factors are some of the most important in Rugby.

We need this. Yet we have to earn it.
We shafted Sheens years ago. Since then we unwound our continuity one decision at a time, looking for miracles that would fix our performance.

2024 is all about building continuity for 2025. It’s not an excuse, it’s the painful truth

💯🐅💪
"Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead"!

 

[Oldman]

So what is the difference between teams that win a Rugby World Cup and ones that don’t? How does that relate to the Wests Tigers?

I want to encourage you all to listen to Ben Darwin talk about some of the data science behind Rugby Union. I get union’s boring (unless you’re playing it), but in this case I suggest there is hope for us and a MASSIVE dose of reality for fellow forum members.

Ep.74 - Whitebait Redundancy with Ben Darwin

Podcast Episode · The Roar Rugby Podcast · 07/08/2023 · 1h 5m

podcasts.apple.com

Ben makes many very interesting points. One that resonates with me was his point around each World Cup winning team were one of the top 3 in terms of their ‘continuity score’ coming into a World Cup. A recent history example of a high continuity score is the 2019 South African team. The 2019 Spring Boks were made up of mainly Stormers players (19 of their squad). This gave them a high continuity score going into the WC and they won.

I am not going to try to convey his points on here, just have a listen.

So how does this relate to Wests Tigers? How does this relate to whether I will renew my membership for a 15th straight year?

Our team has been moving around for years. First it was players leaving (Teddy onwards). Then it was new players always injured (Reynolds etc). Now it’s old players injured (AD, Brooks etc), new coaching, new players and young players.

We yell for changes (me included), forgetting that skill levels of elite players aren’t as different as game performance indicates. Everyone can perform at an elite skill level - look at Toa’a against the Cows.

Personally I feel that more change has led to worse results. We say we don’t want mediocrity so we change things, then we wish for mediocrity instead of wooden spoons.

So where to from here and why do I have hope?

We have invested heavily in young men. Many around 18/19. Risky, but clearly a serious long term chance to build continuity. Young men who have the skill. Young men who could play together for the long term.

We have committed to a coach- long term. This can give us coaching and system’s consistency. Once again listen to Ben Darwin’s insights on coaching.

Next year we are adding more new players - key players… halves. Existing evidence suggests we are going to be bottom four next year. Young players, playing with new players with a new coach.

I’m preparing myself now.

Losing next year will be worth it for me if we pick and stick. Yes we need a couple more elite players, but first we need continuity. We need a platform of how we play and the cohesiveness that comes when team mates intrinsically know what each other will do.

Api and Bula are such great examples. They have steadily got to know each others game.

Think of this in the tackle, knowing what your team mate will do in the wrestle. Think of it in the defensive line, knowing what your team mate will do. Ben’s analysis suggests these factors are some of the most important in Rugby.

We need this. Yet we have to earn it.
We shafted Sheens years ago. Since then we unwound our continuity one decision at a time, looking for miracles that would fix our performance.

2024 is all about building continuity for 2025. It’s not an excuse, it’s the painful truth

We had 3 players 18 years old in our team yesterday and another 1 signed to join us next year what I’m hoping is the 4 of them play together in our reserve grade team next year building combinations and getting used to playing against men for a year or 2 and if they have the talent they will find their way into first grade hopefully together in 2 years time.
Still think we have hard times ahead for a while but no matter what I will always be a TIGERS 🐅 supporter. Enjoyed reading everyone’s opinions during the year, stay safe & healthy everyone Cheers 🍻till next year

 

[InBenjiWeTrust]

We had 3 players 18 years old in our team yesterday and another 1 signed to join us next year what I’m hoping is the 4 of them play together in our reserve grade team next year building combinations and getting used to playing against men for a year or 2 and if they have the talent they will find their way into first grade hopefully together in 2 years time.
Still think we have hard times ahead for a while but no matter what I will always be a TIGERS 🐅 supporter. Enjoyed reading everyone’s opinions during the year, stay safe & healthy everyone Cheers 🍻till next year

Attaboy 👏🐅 💪

 

[Flippedy]

What? Lose pascoe?

If only!