Referendum 2023

[Blaze]

Maybe I’m just a cynic, but I can’t trust the government to do anything that will affect any person for the better. There is always an underlying issue or motive that none of us know.
Add to that, the fact that society in general has gone to the dogs with woke culture and pandering to minorities. Something just smells rotten. I’m all for giving first nations people a voice, but this , to me, smells fishy.
The government can’t even please the population that apparently does have a voice now…
I work hard, and this past year after paying 50 odd grand in tax, I get a measly $1500 back… the least I’ve ever got back… add to that the rego and tolls I pay only to sit in traffic for an hour and a half every arvo and on pot holes roads.
I know all this has not a lot to do with the issue… I’m just saying I don’t trust this government and it will go balls up. I really couldn’t be bothered to vote at all.

 

[Tucker]

They are haha. That's why I mentioned they don't
need to target the older demographic - It's a sure
thing pretty much. A lot of the older folks voting
no and those in the crowd are only a generation
removed from the 'White Australia policy' that
ended in 1969 (to give you an idea as to why).

Don’t go down that route man….racism isn’t the dominant factor.
Plenty of indigenous people don’t want this voice as it’s another barrier to getting the help required to the correct people. There’s been plenty of money and programmes available for a long time now and they don’t make it to the right areas nor the correct people.

 

[Odessa]

If u don't trust government it's ok to vote no.

This is about land rights and if the yes wins there is over 3000 claims in Sydney at the moment so if you worked all your life paid off the mortgage good luck renting the land underneath the house you own

There is already 11 voice's to parliament the government can legislate the voice to parliament but they don't want to they want to change the constitution that protects you from problems like this

And good luck with the Uluru statement

 

[Yossarian]

According to the most recent census, in NSW, indigenous represent 16.5% of the 'remote' population, and 31% of the 'very remote' population, so a minority in both instances.

What you see portrayed on the tv isn't necessarily a reflection of real life.

I've been to the NT. I've been to FNQ. The ones it really, really remote areas are usually indigenous.

So turning to your data, the very remote population of NSW is under 7000. 31.9% said they were indigenous, 53.3% said they weren't, 15% didn't say.

By comparison almost 45000 people in the NT live in very remote areas, over 6 times more. Almost 60% of them are Aboriginal.

On the other hand the Queensland numbers the majority are non indigenous.

Again none of this means we shouldn't do more to help anyone who needs help. I'm all for anything to improve the lot of anyone in remote Australia. I'd argue that the Voice may have benefits for non-Indigenous if policy makers are better exposed to the issues that affect people there.

 

[Yossarian]

Same mate.

Still a citizen, but have to renounce voting rights if you don't expect to return in 6 years.

Is that right? I wasn't aware of that. Hope Singapore is treating you well.

 

[Yossarian]

This is about land rights and if the yes wins there is over 3000 claims in Sydney at the moment so if you worked all your life paid off the mortgage good luck renting the land underneath the house you own

There is already 11 voice's to parliament the government can legislate the voice to parliament but they don't want to they want to change the constitution that protects you from problems like this

And good luck with the Uluru statement

So the claims are currently in court? That should tell you the Voice has zero to do with land claims. The Voice will provide advice not pass law or make policy.

 

[Tucker]

If u don't trust government it's ok to vote no.

It’s as good of a reason as any.
Albo looks and sounds absolutely desperate to me…almost like he has done a shit tonne of deals that will fall apart if NO gets up.
They don’t really give a damn…when they visited Alice earlier in the year, they sent people ahead of them to clear all the trouble makers out so that his press conferences weren’t interrupted by the mongrel violence that is tearing that town to shreds.

 

[TillLindemann]

I've been to the NT. I've been to FNQ. The ones it really, really remote areas are usually indigenous.

So turning to your data, the very remote population of NSW is under 7000. 31.9% said they were indigenous, 53.3% said they weren't, 15% didn't say.

By comparison almost 45000 people in the NT live in very remote areas, over 6 times more. Almost 60% of them are Aboriginal.

On the other hand the Queensland numbers the majority are non indigenous.

Again none of this means we shouldn't do more to help anyone who needs help. I'm all for anything to improve the lot of anyone in remote Australia. I'd argue that the Voice may have benefits for non-Indigenous if policy makers are better exposed to the issues that affect people there.

NSW has Australia's highest Aboriginal population.

 

[TillLindemann]

Again none of this means we shouldn't do more to help anyone who needs help.

On the contrary, this means that particular people are enshrined as deserving of special help based on their racial ancestry, even though the demographics of disadvantage don't align as neatly with the identity politics categories as many wealthy urban Australians think they do.

 

[Yossarian]

NSW has Australia's highest Aboriginal population.

Yes but that doesn't mean there are Indigenous people living there or elsewhere who live in abhorrent conditions.

 

[Kaito]

Don’t go down that route man….racism isn’t the dominant factor.
Plenty of indigenous people don’t want this voice as it’s another barrier to getting the help required to the correct people. There’s been plenty of money and programmes available for a long time now and they don’t make it to the right areas nor the correct people.

Not suggesting they're racist by any means.
I didn't mean for it to come off like that. I was
just trying to illustrate that its closer to home
4 that generation & how change might be harder
for them to grasp, albeit in a crude sort of way...
You saw the photo. 70/80 year old white people
filling the room at a No rally, the irony isn't lost

 

[Yossarian]

On the contrary, this means that particular people are enshrined as deserving of special help based on their racial ancestry, even though the demographics of disadvantage don't align as neatly with the identity politics categories as many wealthy urban Australians think they do.

Urban indigenous people have worse social and health outcomes than non-indigenous Australians in urban areas. As a race they have poorer outcomes, are less likely to go to uni, more likely to be imprisoned. Although the reasons and numbers vary from place to place, what remains constant are those poorer outcomes. So that's what it boils down to, whether you think Indigenous people as a racial group need greater support.

 

[TillLindemann]

Yes but that doesn't mean there are Indigenous people living there or elsewhere who live in abhorrent conditions.

I didn't claim it did. My only point was that remote Australians regardless of ethnicity are at least as disadvantaged as Aboriginal Australians on the same metrics (health, employment, education), you (incorrectly) disputed this, I provided a source confirming it, you then claimed remote Australians are mostly Aboriginal (which is again incorrect).

The point being if there are problems, address them on individual need, rather than arbitrarily divide by race. Why does a wealthy, healthy, full-time employed, university-educated Aboriginal in Sydney need a special voice, just because he has some particular people in his family tree that a poor, unemployed chronically sick person in Cobar doesn't have in theirs?

 

[hammertime]

Correct, but in this case, you are by default racist if you want to study the whole statement from the heart/ related material e.g. https://ulurustatement.org/the-statement/view-the-statement/, and ask questions ??😡
The "regressive elite" command that you MJST agree with them, and dutifully do whatever they ask from you.
If not, they call you names so you are from than on, the worst "enemy of the people"!😉😡

Yeah, I agree. The term racist is banded about WAY too much and I hope people haven't been using it as a catch-all this time. The left side of politics needs to pull its head in with that.

But being more inclusive is not what we should fear. It's when you get more extreme right, like in the US, where dictatorships can rise. Then you'll really have to do as they say.

 

[Kaito]

There’s been plenty of money and programmes available for a long time now and they don’t make it to the right areas nor the correct people.

Agree %100. This is a good way to save $
and have a centralised body that consults
the goverment on the various issues that
need to be addressed. This isn't a land grab.

 

[hammertime]

Is that right? I wasn't aware of that. Hope Singapore is treating you well.

Bloody sweatbox here, but it goes ok. I hope you're going alright too mate.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Yeah, I agree. The term racist is banded about WAY too much and I hope people haven't been using it as a catch-all this time. The left side of politics needs to pull its head in with that.

But being more inclusive is not what we should fear. It's when you get more extreme right, like in the US, where dictatorships can rise. Then you'll really have to do as they say.

It would be nice for true Liberals of the calibre of Turnbull, Bridget Archer, Barry O'Farrell and the like to return to the Liberals.

 

[pawsandclaws1]

Bloody sweatbox here, but it goes ok. I hope you're going alright too mate.

I spent a few years living in Northern Malaysia. I love the steamy weather, the people, the great scenery and at that stage the cost of living.

 

[supercoach]

With most of these things there is only one winner and that is the legal eagles. Iam all for our First Nation people having a platform to voice their problems and fast track reforms for their people, my concern is we are going to bounce from one Royal commission to another with nothing much happening except the legal eagles getting richer

Personally I think Albo has been a huge disappointment in they way he has handled the Voice and most other things he has done. I had great hopes for labor and I think they have walked away from the average person

Anyway I will vote yes because it is better than doing nothing, but I have my concerns who will get the benefits at the end of the day

 

[hammertime]

Maybe I’m just a cynic, but I can’t trust the government to do anything that will affect any person for the better. There is always an underlying issue or motive that none of us know.
Add to that, the fact that society in general has gone to the dogs with woke culture and pandering to minorities. Something just smells rotten. I’m all for giving first nations people a voice, but this , to me, smells fishy.
The government can’t even please the population that apparently does have a voice now…
I work hard, and this past year after paying 50 odd grand in tax, I get a measly $1500 back… the least I’ve ever got back… add to that the rego and tolls I pay only to sit in traffic for an hour and a half every arvo and on pot holes roads.
I know all this has not a lot to do with the issue… I’m just saying I don’t trust this government and it will go balls up. I really couldn’t be bothered to vote at all.

I hear you mate. The government suffers more from being a bloated machine than anything sinister I believe. Sometimes they need to spin facts to sell things to the public that aren't the real intention, just to try to do the right thing. Sometimes that can be a little to their detriment.

I'll give you an example. Howard and Costello's baby bonus was announced to help families and felt like they were trying to buy votes. But what people won't realize is that was all to do with our intergenerational taxation issues of Baby boomers hitting retirement and trying to create more taxpayers to cover them. In 2005, it was projected that 9 to 1 taxpayers to retirees then, will go to 3 to 1 when boomers are at peak retirement.

But they can't come out and say we're trying to fix a problem with the boomers. The biggest voting block.

It's sometimes a very tricky world to navigate and do the right thing. So many interests and considerations to balance.

But I don't think you should believe the worst. The govt is just people like you and me, not some mysterious mob... and often, they're in it for lower pay because the work can make a difference. My pay went up about 4x after I made the leap out. I worked alongside the now-CEO of Virgin Velocity when he was 21 working on Health policy. There are good people there man.